Hmm my Slot1 SECC2 has plastic only on one side and clips that hold the heatsink onto the core and cache, not plastic pins. I take it yours has a retail Intel fan attached using those odd plastic push through pins. A temperature probe can tell you if it is running hot. Some boards have a thermal sensor connector and you can use an add-on temperature sensor. Sorry have never replaced the compound on a retail/OEM pinned p3..

In general, absolutely! P3s can easily die if they get too hot. But i don't know about those plastic pins so can't say if it's worth risking.

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-12, 17:16:

- If I don't have any internal sensors

Almost all P3 motherboards do have thermal sensors, which motherboard is it and which utilities have you tried to use to report any that might be present?

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 05:31:

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-12, 17:16:

- If I don't have any internal sensors

Almost all P3 motherboards do have thermal sensors, which motherboard is it and which utilities have you tried to use to report any that might be present?

Considering the sensor is on the motherboard, how would it get a good temperature reading of a CPU encased in a cartridge ?

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 05:49:

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 05:31:

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-12, 17:16:

- If I don't have any internal sensors

Almost all P3 motherboards do have thermal sensors, which motherboard is it and which utilities have you tried to use to report any that might be present?

Considering the sensor is on the motherboard, how would it get a good temperature reading of a CPU encased in a cartridge ?

Your statement is incorrect.

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:00:

Your statement is incorrect. […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 05:49:

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 05:31:

Almost all P3 motherboards do have thermal sensors, which motherboard is it and which utilities have you tried to use to report any that might be present?

Considering the sensor is on the motherboard, how would it get a good temperature reading of a CPU encased in a cartridge ?

Your statement is incorrect.

Thank you, I stand corrected, yet confused .It says that there is a on-die diode in the CPU to measure junction temperature, but it also says you need to have a thermal sensor on the baseboard to measure die temperature. I'm not sure I see the distinction. Are these two different metrics ? Could you explain, please ?

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:27:

It says that there is a on-die diode in the CPU to measure junction temperature, but it also says you need to have a thermal sensor on the baseboard to measure die temperature. I'm not sure I see the distinction. Are these two different metrics ? Could you explain, please ?

I am not a hardware engineer so can only guess that it means the internal temperature in the CPU chip and the external temperature. I feel Intel could have made things clearer.

To fully understand what is happening it would be appropriate to check the motherboard schematics which I suspect are not available. Either way a good start would be to know what the motherboard is, which SIO chip it uses and if there are any ADM1022 or similar devices accessible via the SMBus.

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:41:

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:27:

It says that there is a on-die diode in the CPU to measure junction temperature, but it also says you need to have a thermal sensor on the baseboard to measure die temperature. I'm not sure I see the distinction. Are these two different metrics ? Could you explain, please ?

I am not a hardware engineer so can only guess that it means the internal temperature in the CPU chip and the external temperature. I feel Intel could have made things clearer.

To fully understand what is happening it would be appropriate to check the motherboard schematics which I suspect are not available. Either way a good start would be to know what the motherboard is, which SIO chip it uses and if there are any ADM1022 or similar devices accessible via the SMBus.

Thank you. Allow me to ask you another more software oriented question. Is the temperature value of the on-die diode on the P3 readable in a standard way, independantly of the temperature monitoring chip used on the mainboard ?

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:47:

Thank you. Allow me to ask you another more software oriented question. Is the temperature value of the on-die diode on the P3 readable in a standard way, independantly of the temperature monitoring chip used on the mainboard ?

No, that would make things far too easy 🙁 In general the on-die diode is connected to the SIO, but different motherboards use different SIOs and the input used for the CPU temperature also varies. You end up having to detect which motherboard it is and adjusting things as appropriate for all of the temperatures, fans and voltages. With the voltages you also need to work out the R1/R2 dividers for +12 and +5. Currently SIV has support for 729 different motherboards!

On Intel Core processors and later this is possible by reading an MSR, but the value reported is an offset from TjMax and TjMax can't be read on pre Bloomfield CPUs.

Those plastic pins are easy to remove (without breaking) if you push them with a case screw. I used two small pieces of plywood, placed them on the floor with a gap in which the plasic "clip" could slide, and I pressed the case screw with a suitable (big enough) screwdriver in each of the four holes. Of course, remove the fan before doing this.

The clips can be reused afterwards, but since I hate this style of heatsink I limited myself on just removing them 😀

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 07:21:

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:47:

Thank you. Allow me to ask you another more software oriented question. Is the temperature value of the on-die diode on the P3 readable in a standard way, independantly of the temperature monitoring chip used on the mainboard ?

No, that would make things far too easy 🙁 In general the on-die diode is connected to the SIO, but different motherboards use different SIOs and the input used for the CPU temperature also varies. You end up having to detect which motherboard it is and adjusting things as appropriate for all of the temperatures, fans and voltages. With the voltages you also need to work out the R1/R2 dividers for +12 and +5. Currently SIV has support for 729 different motherboards!

On Intel Core processors and later this is possible by reading an MSR, but the value reported is an offset from TjMax and TjMax can't be read on pre Bloomfield CPUs.

Thanks yet again.

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:41:

darry wrote on 2020-06-13, 06:27:

It says that there is a on-die diode in the CPU to measure junction temperature, but it also says you need to have a thermal sensor on the baseboard to measure die temperature. I'm not sure I see the distinction. Are these two different metrics ? Could you explain, please ?

I am not a hardware engineer so can only guess that it means the internal temperature in the CPU chip and the external temperature. I feel Intel could have made things clearer.

To fully understand what is happening it would be appropriate to check the motherboard schematics which I suspect are not available. Either way a good start would be to know what the motherboard is, which SIO chip it uses and if there are any ADM1022 or similar devices accessible via the SMBus.

Sorry for the late reply. It's an MP440BX, and I believe I tried using HWInfo, MProbe, and Everest. MProbe gave me a motherboard temperature reading, and I believe the other two just gave me harddrive temps.

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 17:16:

It's an MP440BX, and I believe I tried using HWInfo, MProbe, and Everest. MProbe gave me a motherboard temperature reading.

If it's running Windows NT/2K/XP try my SIV utility and if there is currently no CPU temperature post the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suspect I will be able to get SIV to report it.

Looking at the manual there is a Hardware monitor ASIC which is to the right and just in front of the CPU slot, can you tell me what the chip is? I suspect it may be an ADM9240 or similar.

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 18:11:

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 17:16:

It's an MP440BX, and I believe I tried using HWInfo, MProbe, and Everest. MProbe gave me a motherboard temperature reading.

If it's running Windows NT/2K/XP try my SIV utility and if there is currently no CPU temperature post the two Menu->File->Save Local files I suspect I will be able to get SIV to report it.

Looking at the manual there is a Hardware monitor ASIC which is to the right and just in front of the CPU slot, can you tell me what the chip is? I suspect it may be an ADM9240 or similar.

It either says ADM9240A or ADM924DA.

I'm running 98SE so I wasn't able to try SIV yet, but I ran SpeedFan 5.1 and it gave me a few more readings. One was for the HDD, which was reading 40C and matched what Everest gave me. The other two temperatures I got were 10C and ~36C. I didn't see anything in SpeedFan identify what these were, but after running SpeedFan, Everest started reporting a motherboard temp hovering around 36C as well. Not sure if that's informative, though.

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 19:23:

It either says ADM9240A or ADM924DA.

I'm running 98SE so I wasn't able to try SIV yet, but I ran SpeedFan 5.1 and it gave me a few more readings. One was for the HDD, which was reading 40C and matched what Everest gave me. The other two temperatures I got were 10C and ~36C. I didn't see anything in SpeedFan identify what these were, but after running SpeedFan, Everest started reporting a motherboard temp hovering around 36C as well. Not sure if that's informative, though.

The SIV support for 9x is limited and it does not have SMBus support so won't be able to access the ADM9240A. I based on what's there on my Intel MS440GX systems SMBus I suspect there will also be an ADM1022 which will report the CPU temperature.

Can you boot a MiniXP system or add an XP installation and make it multi-boot?

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 19:40:

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 19:23:

It either says ADM9240A or ADM924DA.

I'm running 98SE so I wasn't able to try SIV yet, but I ran SpeedFan 5.1 and it gave me a few more readings. One was for the HDD, which was reading 40C and matched what Everest gave me. The other two temperatures I got were 10C and ~36C. I didn't see anything in SpeedFan identify what these were, but after running SpeedFan, Everest started reporting a motherboard temp hovering around 36C as well. Not sure if that's informative, though.

The SIV support for 9x is limited and it does not have SMBus support so won't be able to access the ADM9240A. I based on what's there on my Intel MS440GX systems SMBus I suspect there will also be an ADM1022 which will report the CPU temperature.

Can you boot a MiniXP system or add an XP installation and make it multi-boot?

These are the results I got from running SIV32X. I didn't have an SMBus page and I only saw the hard drive temperature.

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 22:12:

These are the results I got from running SIV32X. I didn't have an SMBus page and I only saw the hard drive temperature.

Great, please will you also attach G:\siv\SIV_GATEWAY_Tabor_C_Coppermine_MP440BX_(E-4200).dmi? Zip it as you can't post .DMI files. This an a binary dump of the raw data that SIV displays on the [Machine] panel and SIV does better in test mode when I have it.

The motherboard is Gateway rather than Intel which flummoxed SIV, give me a while and I will post a SIV that should so better.

The SMBus panel is Menu->System->SMB Bus 😀

red-ray wrote on 2020-06-13, 22:29:

Great, please will you also attach G:\siv\SIV_GATEWAY_Tabor_C_Coppermine_MP440BX_(E-4200).dmi? Zip it as you can't post .DMI fi […]
Show full quote

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 22:12:

These are the results I got from running SIV32X. I didn't have an SMBus page and I only saw the hard drive temperature.

Great, please will you also attach G:\siv\SIV_GATEWAY_Tabor_C_Coppermine_MP440BX_(E-4200).dmi? Zip it as you can't post .DMI files. This an a binary dump of the raw data that SIV displays on the [Machine] panel and SIV does better in test mode when I have it.

The motherboard is Gateway rather than Intel which flummoxed SIV, give me a while and I will post a SIV that should so better.

The SMBus panel is Menu->System->SMB Bus 😀

Here you go!

AlephZaku wrote on 2020-06-13, 22:52:

Here you go!

Thank you, it transpires that the Analog ADM9240 is not enabled by the BIOS so needs to be enabled by the monitoring software which is why such as Everest did not initially display any readings.

I suspect I have adjusted SIV to enable then report the ADM9240 so please try the attached SIV32X V5.49 Test-09 test SIV and post new save files.

Looking at [SMB Bus] no ADM1021 get's reported so either the MP440BX does not have one or it's broken. I will wait and see what happens on other MP440BX systems.