yall got me wanting to follow on with an idea i trashed a while ago.

recent (2016-2020) routers have the option to become an SMB NAS when you plug in a hard drive into the USB ports on them. I wanted to build a NAS that only my retro PCs can access via their own switch. the one catch is that some of my PCI NICs might not be compatible with Win98, and some of my builds are already full on the PCI bus...

you can pick up these routers really cheap on your facebook marketplace from people who've moved house/upgraded internet connections. find any external 500mb/1tb drives laying about, plug in, set up an SMB share from the router's gui and blammo free real estate.

I'm more into the hardware than the software, so builds vary from period correct 486's with moderate amounts of Ram to supercharged PPro overdrives on SSD.
Like most, PSU's and monitors are being replaced by newer and more reliable items. Most spinning disks have been replaced by CF or SSD, but the occasional ear-piercing whine of a SCSI 15k rpm or the rattle of an old 170 MB Conner disk can be heard in the early morning, depending on my mood.
I try to have period correct flatscreens for the late PIII, early P4 systems, and was lucky to find an early 15" Eizo, mentioned already in this thread.

GOTEK
Non-period correct Optical Drives
100Mbit Ethernet
Modern/Larger Hard Drives
CF-IDE/SD-IDE
External CF-IDE/SD-IDE
XT-IDE
USB Breakout & NUSB for Win98SE (Or USB Mass Storage drivers for Win95C)
PS2 to AT Keyboard Adapter

I use all of these

- I use CF cards every time,
- I use Gotek only in two systems alongside with classic floppies, others have floppy only builds - I like very much floppy only look on the front side of the case. Gotek kinda ruins the view,
- however I use Gotek every time I install DOS and other programs in my new system, then when installed, I switch cables from Gotek to a floppy,
- I almost replace all fans (PSU, CPU), when I see it necessary,
- about CD Roms, I almost don't use them, since I have CF cards, but I do build them in the system, however, I look for near period and near color correct component (must be yellowed to that state as the case is 😀,
- after removing barrel battery, I never install another barrel one, but use a 4 pin external power connector.

flupke11 wrote on 2020-07-22, 07:31:

I'm more into the hardware than the software, so builds vary from period correct 486's with moderate amounts of Ram to supercharged PPro overdrives on SSD.
Like most, PSU's and monitors are being replaced by newer and more reliable items. Most spinning disks have been replaced by CF or SSD, but the occasional ear-piercing whine of a SCSI 15k rpm or the rattle of an old 170 MB Conner disk can be heard in the early morning, depending on my mood.
I try to have period correct flatscreens for the late PIII, early P4 systems, and was lucky to find an early 15" Eizo, mentioned already in this thread.

I had one of those (not-high end but the brand itself was) Eizo 15" L series early LCD large plastic frame, built around probably 2000->2002 and found some years ago in good shape. Real heavy well built LCD and with a real thick vga cable never seen so large in any monitor. Too bad it's gone. In these last weeks I found a white/yellow Acer AL1512 LCD 15" vga monitor, I can't say the built date I don't find a code to indentify it, surely more modern than the Eizo probably around 2003 (?) considering it take maximun 33W, has 23ms time response. That early Eizo LCD I had was awesome but it had a panel good for an early LCD, but imho not comparable to many newer later panels in terms of image quality considering how fast this technology began to evolve since early ones.
I've to say this Acer with both a modern computer and a 386 machine both gives a good quality image even when scaled up and still sort of looks like retro itself. I missed 4:3 monitor, I always miss after some time with any modern 16:9 ones.

Turbo -> wrote on 2020-07-22, 08:09:

- after removing barrel battery, I never install another barrel one, but use a 4 pin external power connector.

That can't always be easy. I have the opportunity to make the same choice but in my 386 mainboard I couldn't say if actually the 4-pin connector did power the external battery or just receive voltage from it even when changing any jumpers not having any manual. The voltage of the four pin was always lower than the battery itself so I suppose not all the mainboards were done for a recharchable external battery and I ended up soldering a newer Ni-Mh 3,6v 80mAh one. Few solder so it'll easier to remove one day but I hope it will last a decade or whatever.

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-07-22, 07:07:

yall got me wanting to follow on with an idea i trashed a while ago.

recent (2016-2020) routers have the option to become an SMB NAS when you plug in a hard drive into the USB ports on them. I wanted to build a NAS that only my retro PCs can access via their own switch. the one catch is that some of my PCI NICs might not be compatible with Win98, and some of my builds are already full on the PCI bus...

you can pick up these routers really cheap on your facebook marketplace from people who've moved house/upgraded internet connections. find any external 500mb/1tb drives laying about, plug in, set up an SMB share from the router's gui and blammo free real estate.

I like this idea!

386SX wrote on 2020-07-22, 09:25:

Turbo -> wrote on 2020-07-22, 08:09:

- after removing barrel battery, I never install another barrel one, but use a 4 pin external power connector.

That can't alThe voltage of the four pin was always lower than the battery itself so I suppose not all the mainboards were done for a recharchable external battery and I ended up soldering a newer Ni-Mh 3,6v 80mAh one. Few solder so it'll easier to remove one day but I hope it will last a decade or whatever.

I don't know if I understand you correctly, but as far as I know, external battery connectors were never meant to be connected to a rechargeable power source. I mean you could use rechargeable batteries, but there is no need to. I use 3 x AA batteries = 4,5V and I'm good to go. Must be careful about the polarity olthough.

But if you meant to say, that not all motherboards have external power connectors, then of course I agree. In that case, I solder pins where the rechargeable battery once was and then I connect a barrel one from distance by wire.

Turbo -> wrote on 2020-07-22, 13:54:

386SX wrote on 2020-07-22, 09:25:

Turbo -> wrote on 2020-07-22, 08:09:

- after removing barrel battery, I never install another barrel one, but use a 4 pin external power connector.

That can't alThe voltage of the four pin was always lower than the battery itself so I suppose not all the mainboards were done for a recharchable external battery and I ended up soldering a newer Ni-Mh 3,6v 80mAh one. Few solder so it'll easier to remove one day but I hope it will last a decade or whatever.

I don't know if I understand you correctly, but as far as I know, external battery connectors were never meant to be connected to a rechargeable power source. I mean you could use rechargeable batteries, but there is no need to. I use 3 x AA batteries = 4,5V and I'm good to go. Must be careful about the polarity olthough.

But if you meant to say, that not all motherboards have external power connectors, then of course I agree. In that case, I solder pins where the rechargeable battery once was and then I connect a barrel one from distance by wire.

I mean that I don't know how those 4-pin connector were designed for. Rechargable batteries (from the connector) or just simple AA ones, Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh, which voltages, etc.. I don't have any manual for my own 386 mainboard and I don't really know how much the voltage should be but some mainboard may send some voltage on the external connector others not, who knows. Are we sure that 4,5v is ok for the circuits the battery is going to power up? If I take the usual 3,6v original ones it receive 5V from the mainboard and gives its 3,6/3,7v to the bios when fully charged.
I tested the four pin of mine board with the multimeter and I read something like 2V on the four pin connector, not zero. I think it'd be better to know exaclty which kind of battery logic those "external" source were designed for.
Maybe I should have had more patience testing exactly how the circuit of those connector and the near three pin jumper works along with the original battery points, but I didn't want to break something not to mention the bios eeprom.

I have a long term goal of building a DOS-era system from a Pentium-60 board that I have. I don't have a working 486 but hey, this is what I would have had back then if money was no object. This project probably raises the most questions for me in regards to "period correctness", because it's the oldest machine I want to build, but also the one I care the most about doing "right". I normally just cobble stuff together at random but this is a machine I want to build and keep.
I think my general conclusion is that I don't mind cheating by a few years in some areas, but I don't want to be severely anachronistic.

I will cheat by giving it an LS120, because I find them more convenient and pleasant than regular floppy drives.
Not sure about ethernet. The LS120 reduces the need for it, and I have no idea what networking is like on such old OSes that I'll be using on this machine.
I'll probably give it a lot of RAM that would have been impractical in 1993-95.
CDROM will be almost correct, because I never liked high speed CDROM drives anyway. I will relish having a civilized 4X or 6X drive in here. If I had a 2X I wouldn't mind that. I once saw an ancient external 1X drive that I'm almost wishing I'd bought - but maybe that's going too far.

Hard drive is unresolved - I might settle for one that's a few years newer due to availability and to get more size. I want SCSI but not too whiny.
I did get a perfect candidate ~1994-95 Seagate Barracuda on eBay 1-2 years ago, along with a suitable HVD controller card and terminator, but I think the Unisys firmware on it has made it unusable in a PC.
I might go with dual drives - one that's reasonably "correct" for the 90s that makes nice seek noises and then a big and quiet secondary drive for bulk storage.

The use of a bulk storage drive goes into the cheat column. It will be convenient for storing install images and backups, especially if there's no ethernet.
I would rather not use CF or SATA or anything that ultra modern, at least not for the primary drive.

It will be powered with a Seasonic AT PSU. It's from the late 1990s but I don't mind that at all. It should treat the hardware right and it's still an AT.
I have a more "accurate" PSU that I think is the same one I used back in the day, but I'm close to throwing it out because I think it's probably a piece of junk.

I don't have a decent case for it, but I do want one that looks right for the machine and has the right buttons and LEDs on it. I would not be happy putting this thing in an ATX case.
-----
And then when it's done, I'll probably end up playing DOS games on a Slot-1 instead.

For me it had always been wanting to try out all kinds of hardware for myself, instead of just reading about it and then trying to imagine what it was like.
So instead of just assuming GF2MX is shit, I build a sA rig with a Thunderbird, SDRAM and try out a GF2MX.
Instead of assuming that Virge is shit or that TNT2M64 is shit, I'd actually use these for myself so I could experience first hand what they were like.
Reading about it and their stats and stories behind it is interesting as well to me, but in the end I learn the most by doing so I ended up building more rigs then I could actually use (ended up using a smaller number more often, having around 5 favorites I'd use more then just a couple afternoons).

I don't care much for SSDs or flash cards, I found the batch of 20GB IDE laptop drives suiting my needs well enough. For file transfer I prefer to use an USB ZIP drive. I could use a thumb drive but a ZIP drive feels a bit more authentic to me.
Many of my retro rigs ended up never even using the NIC, mostly because I would find it more convenient to simply have all the files I really need on a disk I could use more often (like DX or certain programs) instead of having to connect to a network every single time I would have build a new retro rig.

I like to tinker with stuff, mix and match till I get what feels like a balanced build for me with parts that roughly belong together. This includes picking the parts and doing my research instead of just pressing everything into a slot and doing the thinking afterwards.
I guess I also just like it when a plan comes together 😜 and my builds have (for the vast majority of cases) been very stable, even using parts I picked up from the streets.
I like creating stuff, including having to think and consider before doing the actual building.

I could build a Pentium 233MMZ with 256MB RAM if I wanted to, but I'd probably use 128MB or even less, because this feels a bit more authentic for me without making it a mere frustrating ordeal (like having 24 megs of SIMM installed which was not particularly a lot of fun back then 🤣).
I will if I can, but for instance 192MB SDRAM felt plentiful for my Celeron 400 build even though I could probably have just installed 2x256MB and have fewer problems.
In the end I never really missed out on the memory anyway. If I needed a more powerful rig, I'd just build a more powerful rig.

So in the end I think the most I would use modern convenience, is by actively using more modern rigs to support the older ones in the shape of for instance downloaded drivers (because these always tend to disappear eventually) and virtual machines for slimming down OSs and doing some random testing. And for porting files of course.
But in the end, my retro rigs are somewhat self-contained as I prefer it that way.

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-07-22, 07:07:

recent (2016-2020) routers have the option to become an SMB NAS when you plug in a hard drive into the USB ports on them

This is the best option for connecting retro machines to a network drive imho.
I went with a router that can run OpenWRT - it's a TP-Link Archer C2700.

I needed a better router with amazing WiFi support anyway, having OpenWRT is a nice bonus. You can install the samba36 app on it which works out of the box with all Windows versions starting from 95. Just plug in the drive, maybe partition it, set up a share and done.

The good thing about Samba 3.6 is that it's able to use SMB1 and SMB2 at the same time, so I don't have to enable SMB1 support on my Windows 10 machine. Doing this would really not be a good idea for security reasons.

OpenWRT also comes with Samba4, but I was not able to get that to work with Windows 98 - it is supposed to run and some people got it working - just needs a lot of config tweaking I was too lazy to do.

Other conveniences on my retro machine are an SD to IDE adapter, because I hate harddrive noise - and copying files from my main machine to an SD card is much easier than copying files to an IDE drive.
I also put in two low RPM fans for the CPU and cooling my Voodoo2 SLI setup. The machine is so quiet, it's amazing! One thing I really don't miss about the old days are noisy fans and harddrives. 😀

I usually try to keep my systems somewhat period-correct, but considering most custom-built PCs generally had components from different eras even back in the day, I am not very strict about it.

As for modern conveniences:

• Gotek, but only for the initial installation of OS and other software that is in floppy image format. After that I replace it with an actual floppy for the vintage look.
• Network card: this has become essential for data transfer to my old pre-USB PCs, fast, reliable and doesn't affect the aesthetics of the build
• HDD: generally I use drives that are somewhat more modern than the rest of the components, but not wildly out of place (I happen to have quite a few NOS HDDs between 1 and 6 GB, ideal for DOS)
• Optical drives: All of my working CD drives are those awfully noisy > 40x units, if I had slower drives I would use them so I don't know if I would call these faster drives a "convenience". To make matters worse at some point the manufacturers decided it was cool to slap those huge "52X!!11!!" labels in the tray... oh well, at least there are ways to slow down the drives

CF and SD adapters have fallen out of favor with me, I had many instances of incompatibilities with older boards, CF cards that suddenly became unusable and other things. And most of all, with working HDDs for storage and network card for transfer I really don't have a need for these anymore. Speed and noise are not an issue with the drives I use.

I also avoid modern 12V-based power supplies on older systems. I know how to identify and refurbish good quality older units, so I get those for cheap (some of them even NOS) instead of spending on modern ones which also require AT-to-ATX adapter (and maybe SATA-to-Molex/Floppy adapters), as well as the mismatch with old cases.

TheMobRules wrote on 2020-07-22, 18:26:

CF and SD adapters have fallen out of favor with me, I had many instances of incompatibilities with older boards, CF cards that suddenly became unusable and other things.

I've stopped using those cheap SanDisk SD cards that are sold pretty much everywhere and since then I don't have any problems anymore.
I've had three Sandisk 32GB cards that suddenly limited their transfer speed and became almost unuseable on my retro machine.
One of these even broke down in my phone when transferring music, so I've come to the conclusion that SanDisk is pure and utter trash.

Now I use Samsung cards. They're much more expensive, but none of them have let me down.

schmatzler wrote on 2020-07-22, 17:58:

This is the best option for connecting retro machines to a network drive imho. I went with a router that can run OpenWRT - it's […]
Show full quote

foil_fresh wrote on 2020-07-22, 07:07:

recent (2016-2020) routers have the option to become an SMB NAS when you plug in a hard drive into the USB ports on them

This is the best option for connecting retro machines to a network drive imho.
I went with a router that can run OpenWRT - it's a TP-Link Archer C2700.

I needed a better router with amazing WiFi support anyway, having OpenWRT is a nice bonus. You can install the samba36 app on it which works out of the box with all Windows versions starting from 95. Just plug in the drive, maybe partition it, set up a share and done.

The good thing about Samba 3.6 is that it's able to use SMB1 and SMB2 at the same time, so I don't have to enable SMB1 support on my Windows 10 machine. Doing this would really not be a good idea for security reasons.

OpenWRT also comes with Samba4, but I was not able to get that to work with Windows 98 - it is supposed to run and some people got it working - just needs a lot of config tweaking I was too lazy to do.

Other conveniences on my retro machine are an SD to IDE adapter, because I hate harddrive noise - and copying files from my main machine to an SD card is much easier than copying files to an IDE drive.
I also put in two low RPM fans for the CPU and cooling my Voodoo2 SLI setup. The machine is so quiet, it's amazing! One thing I really don't miss about the old days are noisy fans and harddrives. 😀

good to know, if i see that model i'll snatch it up 👍

Okay, story time....

I was working with 8088-80486 PC before it was "retro" - when they were called "doorstops" "boat anchors" and "dinosaurs" - that was over 20 years ago. I was a poor Teenager, and I wanted a computer.....BAD......that had some capability to get on the internet so I no longer needed to heed the 115 degree 88% humidity Alabama summers to try and get on a computer at the Auburn University Library to research all the other assorted things I'm into. Back then, you could get PAID to take away a 386 or a 486 or anyting else "Pre-Pentium". I really treasure my time with that stuff, no matter how foolish people thought I was back then jamming 40GB HDD in 486 DX2-66's and cursing the fact I could not find an SVGA CRT monitor for less than $50.00 because people were still legit using them for work back then.

So classiclaly, ALL of my retro-computers had at least some level of "modern convenience" baked into them. Almost nothing I ever built was 100% period correct. Even my Tandy 1000A at it's most stock had a 800MB Apple Certified SCSI HDD hidden behind the dual 360K Floppy drives running MS-DOS 6.22.

The Creeping Network's desktop computers have a pretty standard configuration in general where I modernize and go vintage....
- Some kind of really really old Beige XT/AT case
- Some kind of really really old power supply that fits said case but has super high wattage for it's time period (ie 220 Watt XT PSU, 500 Wat Baby ATs....)
- A poor unsuspecting motherboard that likely has parts held together with chewing gum and twine but somehow runs at a level on par or higher than it's time
- 8088-80486 CPU which I milk every last gob of performance out of running things that intel/microsoft/Linus Torvaldes never intended to have running on it
- dual Floppies (assuming enough externally accessable slots)
- Some kind of Obscenely fast and over-sized moern PATA or SATA with an adapter hard disk split into multiple partitions with a DDO and running in PIO Mode 4
- Video card with the VRAM maxed out if it's upgradable.....2, 4, 8MB? 3D? I'll find a way to get it working.
- Almost always some kind of actual SoundBlaster card because I built a Cache of those....I use an AWE64 in my 486 because AWE32s are just too bloody expensive now
- 10mbps Ethernet card, almost always wired into the network over TCP/IP using DHCP
- MS-DOS, or some super hacked-up/modified version of Windows where I do a lot of tweaking and tuning......sometimes hours of it, lately FreeDOS has been my favorite O/S
- A browser that can surf the modern web (usually twibright Links these days), mTCP, Irfanview, WinRAR, and of course, a ton of games
- Clicky Keyboard and a decent pointing device(es)
- Some kind of cool multi-button gamepad (Sidewinder and PC PRoPad 4 being my top choice)
- Some old CRT I saved from certain fate by tweaking the focus and voltage....may even drill holes in the side (NEATLY) to access without taking the back off if no door or holes exist.

LAPTOPS - These days it'll almost always be an NEC Versa 486 of some kind with an Active Matrix TFT screen, because I found the NEC screens are almost as good as a modern LCD when it comes to brightness and ghosting. Also, some come with Touch. Modern appointments include some kind of WiFi card networked to my cell phone so I can have internet access anywhere and everywhere with the laptop...to the point I'm toying with making a Velcro attachment for my phone to the back - that's way more mobile than these Versas ever were in the 1990's (not to mention faster....full blown 11.5GBps xfer full time so as long as I keep DHCP.exe refreshed when using FreeDOS), and of course, some kind of insane huge hard disk in excess of 40GB, with an accelerometer, or full blown solid state will be the future replacements.

8088 with Monochrome (non hercules) and some very old disk format I can't find disks for....blech....
Sneaker-netting ginormous programs with floppy diskettes....I'll pass...
Surfing the internet on an emulated dial-up connection because nostalgia....why? WiFi and Ethernet over TCP/IP is less work.
Having to carefully care for aging hard disks and constantly cleaning and reorganizing data to fit more stuff? Nah....slap an 80 gig in there, FTP it for awhile, and call it a day.
running Ultima VI on a 286 because that's what was new when I came out? Nope....overspeeding it on a 486 DX4....makes a 20 minute trip to Yew a 2 minute trip 🤣

Part of my love for these machines is seeing them exceed what most consider their full potential.

If you want best game play performance and video and audio then you want to use as many newer compatible components as possible in ISA, PCI and AGP.
But if you want Nostalgia and period correct then you want period correct hardware. The performance difference maybe between 10%-20%.
Mainly with BUS speeds and Memory speeds and memory management.

I agree. We begrudgingly accept motherboards now that have a 512mb ram limit, but in 2001 my first brand new PC was an i815/p3 with 256mb. Ram was becoming cheaper but it was still more expensive than today. BX boards typically had 64/128MB, and 386/486 usually had 8 or 16. The performance increase of ram speed vs hdd swap file churning alone would be 10-20% IMO. To be 100% period correct to what was typically in use at the time is different from what a millionaire of 1998 would buy. Just like most HDDs would be 5400 roms, but now 7200 rpm drives aren't nearly as expensive.

I prefer CRT over LCD. The one feature I put in all my "retro" PC's that I can't do without, is network cards. A Gotek drive would be good as well,for when you really do need to use floppies.