TNT2 is good if its the ultra version, otherwise the voodoo is faster i bet, and cant can't do glide.

Vanta is as castrated as an Ottoman court eunuch. Voodoo3 will thrash it regardless of interface, particularly as Voodoo didn't really utilize AGP fully anyway.

That said, if you don't need the PCI interface, you could easily exchange that V3-2000 PCI for a V3-3000 AGP (as PCI is rarer/more sought-after)

dionb wrote on 2020-07-28, 21:04:

Vanta is as castrated as an Ottoman court eunuch. Voodoo3 will thrash it regardless of interface, particularly as Voodoo didn't really utilize AGP fully anyway.

That said, if you don't need the PCI interface, you could easily exchange that V3-2000 PCI for a V3-3000 AGP (as PCI is rarer/more sought-after)

I didn't realise the PCI ones were a bit more sought after. With that in mind though I'll probably hang on to it for that reason.

Yeah I was thinking the Vanta was pretty bad, I think the card came as a freebie when I bought the motherboard & CPU lot many years back on eBay and I just left it installed for lack of anything better at the time.

PTherapist wrote on 2020-07-29, 18:09:

dionb wrote on 2020-07-28, 21:04:

Vanta is as castrated as an Ottoman court eunuch. Voodoo3 will thrash it regardless of interface, particularly as Voodoo didn't really utilize AGP fully anyway.

That said, if you don't need the PCI interface, you could easily exchange that V3-2000 PCI for a V3-3000 AGP (as PCI is rarer/more sought-after)

I didn't realise the PCI ones were a bit more sought after. With that in mind though I'll probably hang on to it for that reason.

Yeah I was thinking the Vanta was pretty bad, I think the card came as a freebie when I bought the motherboard & CPU lot many years back on eBay and I just left it installed for lack of anything better at the time.

AFAIK, the reasons for the PCI one being rarer and more sought after are :

a) more AGP one were sold , PCI ones are thus rarer
b) AGP ones require a board that can handle 3.3 volt AGP , so PCI one are morr compatible
c) there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI ones, so no real advantage currently to having an AGP one

there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI ones

Actually there are some difference, even when AGP 1x is considered. AGP cards have more direct access to RAM and don't share bandwidth with other devices. So nope, Voodoo 3 AGP =/= Voodoo 3 PCI. That applies even in DOS environment, if CPU is sufficiently powerful.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-07-29, 19:39:

there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI ones

Actually there are some difference, even when AGP 1x is considered. AGP cards have more direct access to RAM and don't share bandwidth with other devices.

While what you say is true, what I should have expressed more clearly is that an AGP Voodoo 3 won't perform faster than a PCI one in benchmarks or real life, in most scenarios . The exception to that may be high resolution software rendering on relatively high performance CPUs where PCI vs AGP 1x bandwidth could actually show .

See
Voodoo3 PCI vs AGP?

The exception to that may be high resolution software rendering on relatively high performance CPUs

Nope, that difference will remain on all resolutions, but exact percentage will fluctuate slightly between resolution modes. Some 3D accelerated games like Quake 2, Quake 3 and Half-Life will also react to bus speed on low resolutions even with relatively slow CPU.

I found a Voodoo 3 2000 comparable to my TNT2 Pro . The voodoo is probably faster than the tnt Vanta so I would go for that.

darry wrote on 2020-07-29, 18:28:

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AFAIK, the reasons for the PCI one being rarer and more sought after are :

a) more AGP one were sold , PCI ones are thus rarer
b) AGP ones require a board that can handle 3.3 volt AGP , so PCI one are morr compatible
c) there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI ones, so no real advantage currently to having an AGP one

To add to B: AGP requires AGP. A lot of period boards (whether non-Super So7 or later boards with integrated VGA) didn't have AGP. PCI lets you use V3 on those boards.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-07-29, 20:09:

The exception to that may be high resolution software rendering on relatively high performance CPUs

Nope, that difference will remain on all resolutions, but exact percentage will fluctuate slightly between resolution modes. Some 3D accelerated games like Quake 2, Quake 3 and Half-Life will also react to bus speed on low resolutions even with relatively slow CPU.

Nice work. I am not contesting your results or the premise that AGP has better bandwidth which has effect on performance .

What I would have liked to see, however, is a direct comparison between a PCI and an AGP Voodoo 3 on a system where the CPU is not a bottleneck . Unless I missed something, your data only contains a PCI Voodoo 3 and we can't really guess how different an AGP one would be without testing an actual AGP sample .

Unless I missed something, your data only contains a PCI Voodoo 3 and we can't really guess how different an AGP one would be without testing an actual AGP sample .

They all behave exactly the same. AGP bus will increase performance around 20%-30%, excluding VGA mode (CPU limit is almost reached on some top tier PCI cards).

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-07-29, 21:17:

Unless I missed something, your data only contains a PCI Voodoo 3 and we can't really guess how different an AGP one would be without testing an actual AGP sample .

They all behave exactly the same. AGP bus will increase performance around 20%-30%, excluding VGA mode (CPU limit is almost reached on some top tier PCI cards).

That may well be very likely, but without explicitly testing the Voodoo 3 AGP, we can't be absolutely certain of it . The Voodoo 3's design and limited AGP support may well make it an outlier .

I have a test system and hopefully two comparable Voodoo 3 cards, so I may run some limited tests myself in something like Quake 1, just to satisfy my personal curiosity

The Voodoo 3's design and limited AGP support may well make it an outlier

You aware that AGP cards work like PCI 66 in DOS?

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2020-07-29, 19:39:

there is no performance difference between AGP and PCI ones

Actually there are some difference, even when AGP 1x is considered. AGP cards have more direct access to RAM and don't share bandwidth with other devices. So nope, Voodoo 3 AGP =/= Voodoo 3 PCI. That applies even in DOS environment, if CPU is sufficiently powerful.

Voodoo did not use AGP texturing at all AFAIK. The only difference is the 66mhz bus which does not make that much difference overall.

Voodoo did not use AGP texturing at all AFAIK

That's DiME, what I'm referring to is classic DMA. Also AGP Voodoo cards have support for side band addressing.

Well after posting this topic only 4 days ago, the decision has now been rendered moot in a good way -

I was going through my parts boxes looking for other parts for this socket 7 build when I spotted a graphics card that I didn't even know I had -

Yep, I had an AGP Voodoo 3 2000 in my collection all this time and didn't realise. I really must document my spare parts better. 🤣

Out goes the Vanta into storage and my other Socket 7 PC also gets to keep its PCI Voodoo 3. 😎