VOGONS


Replacement capacitor recommendation

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First post, by Repo Man11

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I want to recap this board, and I went as far as buying some caps from an Ebay seller. But after reading more posts on the topic, I've decided that I don't want to take a chance on some no name capacitors - if I'm going to do this, I want it to be something that lasts.

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Re: I recently found this hardware, AKA the Dumpster find thread.

The caps in question are 6.3 volt, 3300 microfarad. What would you recommend?

Reply 1 of 21, by Horun

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What exact brand/model are the originals ? Is best to try to match (or slightly do better) the max ripple current and ESR value if possible since the old board was designed with those values. What brand/model did you buy ?

Hate posting a reply and have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. 🤣 Second computer a 286 12Mhz with real IDE drive ! After that came 386, 486, Pentium, P.Pro and everything after....

Reply 2 of 21, by Repo Man11

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Horun wrote on 2020-08-06, 01:49:

What exact brand/model are the originals ? Is best to try to match (or slightly do better) the max ripple current and ESR value if possible since the old board was designed with those values. What brand/model did you buy ?

I didn't make note of the brand of the originals (though I could find out), just the voltage and the capacitance. The ones I bought are no name Chinese ones commonly found on Ebay, and I've little doubt that they would work fine (the board still POSTs with the failing ones!) but for how long? My most successful recap jobs in the past were with ones salvaged from dead motherboards, but I no longer have any donor boards.

Reply 3 of 21, by debs3759

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I've been buying Panasonic fr and Rubicon xyf, as I have read they are among the best. The Panasonic seem to be cheapest. Will be doing my first recap on a couple of graphics cards when the latest purchase arrives.

Reply 4 of 21, by gdjacobs

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Panasonic FR are an excellent line of caps and can be used as replacements for a lot of low ESR VRM filter applications. YXF series can be used interchangeably with Panasonic FC and Nichicon PW for general purpose applications. They're used quite a lot on PSU output filters. However, mapping and identifying the original caps, then matching them with compatible replacements is always the best solution.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 5 of 21, by kalohimal

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Japanese caps with brands like Nipon Chemicon, Nichicon, Rubycon, Panasonic, Sanyo, etc are good ones. If you could find the low ESR series then go for it like others had suggested. Taiwanese caps (OST, Teapo, Ltec etc) are 2nd tier, their lifespans are not as good as the Japanese ones but are generally ok for their price. China caps (Changx etc) are no no. I once bought one bag of China brand electrolytic caps, after several months they started bulging even before use.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 6 of 21, by gdjacobs

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Sanyo no longer manufacture capacitors. Their capacitor group was spun off as Suncon and remain good. Taicon are a Taiwanese brand that partner with Nichicon. They're the next best thing to the tier one brands, although they're generally only available through OEM channels.

I have to stress again, though, that capacitor brand selection has to do with reliability but not function.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 8 of 21, by kalohimal

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Btw, PSU is very important for the good health of the board. Cheap PSUs usually have large ripples when under load, and if the ripples are too large that is out of the tolerance of the caps their lifespan will be shorten, even Japanese caps. I would recommend upgrading the PSU to a modern good brand, or at least check the output caps of the PSU and recap it if necessary too.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 9 of 21, by Falco

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kalohimal wrote on 2020-08-06, 06:11:

Japanese caps with brands like Nipon Chemicon, Nichicon, Rubycon, Panasonic, Sanyo, etc are good ones. If you could find the low ESR series then go for it like others had suggested. Taiwanese caps (OST, Teapo, Ltec etc) are 2nd tier, their lifespans are not as good as the Japanese ones but are generally ok for their price. China caps (Changx etc) are no no. I once bought one bag of China brand electrolytic caps, after several months they started bulging even before use.

OST, Teapo and LTec are junk. I've replaced probably thousands of those three brands.

Both OST and LTec caps tend to dry out and go high ESR, lose capacitance or just go open circuit. Teapo-cheapo tend to blow their tops or bottoms out and leak everywhere.

I've bought bags of Chengx/Chengxing capacitors and never had an issue with them in the 5 or so years I've used them. Though, they may not be the same ones you've used, since mystery meat Ebay caps can be branded anything. I bought my stock all from one seller that I found to be reliable, but unfortunately they stopped selling them late last year and I couldn't find another supplier. They aren't the best, but they also aren't the worst. I've used them in quite a few applications though and haven't had issues with them failing yet.

Reply 10 of 21, by manicgamer

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I think any branded caps would be better for that board considering the state of the ones in the photos.
I'd only go for high value quality branded if the voltage rating was above 16V. Low voltage caps like
those are not really being stressed too much, so just replace them with as close a value as possible.
Those near the heat sink would benefit from higher temp rated caps (105's). It's the heat from the
other compnents that causes them to fail quickly. Wrapping them in Kapton tape is something
I always do to large power supply caps, or any close to a heat source such as a heat sink.

It's fine to use higher voltage rating caps, but don't go less or more than 15% on the uF rating.
Besides, you would never know if the caps have been changed previously in the past and replaced
with different value caps from the original design of the board.

I can't say I have ever had any issues with cheap ebay capacitors, but if it's a cherished board
then go with a quailty brand from a good supplier like Rapid Electronics or Farnell.

Don't forget to clean all that dust and muck off the board 😀

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Reply 11 of 21, by Miphee

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I'd just add that soldering caps on a mainboard is completely different than recapping a PSU.
The copper layer in the mainboard and the numerous heatsinks conduct the heat away so it's difficult to melt the solder quickly even at 450C°, especially the lead-free stuff that has a higher melting point.
It differs from board to board but I found MSI boards the most difficult and Gigabyte boards the easiest to work with.
I usually just use my heatgun to prewarm the surroundings a bit and use a flat solder tip to transfer as much heat as possible to the solder joint, then add a little leaded solder to "soften it up" - lower it's melting point.
Not always easy.

Reply 12 of 21, by Repo Man11

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The operation was a success!
aYDv8sT.jpg?1

The failing caps were "Elite" brand, and while they were a nice color of navy blue, they weren't built to last. I also spotted a bulgy G-Luxon 10 volt 1000 microfarad cap that I had missed before, so I replaced it with a 16 volt 1000 cap salvaged from a dead motherboard.

When I initially tried to power it on, I only got fans, no POST beep, and no display. I was very disappointed, but I didn't give up. This board has slots for SDR and DDR, and I had tried a 512 of Kingston PC133 I had nearby. So I then tried a 512 of PC3200, and it POSTed!

I initially was going to install Win98 on a 250 gig SATA drive with an adapter, but the board couldn't detect it. But it was able to detect a 120 gig SSD, so I used that instead. Since installing Win98, I found a BIOS update, and it can now detect the 250 gig drive.

When I had the heatsink off, I discovered that the 1.8 GHz CPU is actually a 2.4 533 MHz FSB one. I wonder what they had where that was a good upgrade (maybe a Celeron, so they at least jumped up to 512 cache)? I had a 2.53 533. so I'm up to 1.9 GHz now. Does anyone reading this know if a 2.8 GHz 400 FSB would work in this motherboard? The manual says up to 2.2 GHz, but no doubt these 533 FSB chips aren't supposed to work either. There's one for pretty cheap on Ebay, I might just try it and see.

Reply 13 of 21, by zyga64

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I'm almost sure that 2.8GHz/400CPU will work, but don't bother with Celeron.
Even slower P4 CPU will be faster than 128kB Northwood Celeron. They are probably worst Intel CPU.

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4MB /TVGA9000C /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16MB /Trio64V+ /AZT2316
3) i430HX /P233MMX /64MB /VirgeDX+3DFX /YMF701
4) i440BX /P II 400 /256MB /FX5500/AWE64
5) i865G /E5800 /2GB /Ti4200 /YMF724

Reply 14 of 21, by gdjacobs

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Falco wrote on 2020-08-17, 11:24:

OST, Teapo and LTec are junk. I've replaced probably thousands of those three brands.

OST and Teapo have been known to perform ok in certain applications. Can't say the same with, for instance, Sacon, Fuhjyyu, or Chhsi.

Falco wrote on 2020-08-17, 11:24:

I've bought bags of Chengx/Chengxing capacitors and never had an issue with them in the 5 or so years I've used them. Though, they may not be the same ones you've used, since mystery meat Ebay caps can be branded anything. I bought my stock all from one seller that I found to be reliable, but unfortunately they stopped selling them late last year and I couldn't find another supplier. They aren't the best, but they also aren't the worst. I've used them in quite a few applications though and haven't had issues with them failing yet.

I threw up a little in my mouth.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 15 of 21, by Repo Man11

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I bought a P4 2.8/512/400 for a total of $7.60, so no great loss if it won't run at the rated speed (though I hope it will).
Scores as is: Aquamark 3 10,793, 3D Mark 99 Max: 7,374, 3D Mark 2000: 8,075, 3D 2001: 6,081. That's with a Radeon 9200. Everything has run with no issues, board has been rock solid so far.

I found a driver for the onboard sound, but only one channel worked. I cleaned the port with contact cleaner, no change, so I installed a Sound Blaster PCI 128 that was given to me, and it works fine.

Reply 16 of 21, by Repo Man11

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The P4 I bought is in China, so it will be at least a couple of weeks before I receive it. There was a USA listing for one that was similarly priced (INTEL PENTIUM 4 PROCESSOR 2.8GHZ/512K/400MHZ(SL7E2)Socket 478/N CPU), but the seller had a photo of a 2.8 533 FSB CPU; I sent him a message saying that "The photo shows a CPU with a 533 MHz frontside bus?" and he responded "Yes that is correct." I suppose at that point I could have sent him another message asking if the photo was of the CPU he was selling, or if it was just one that he used, but his reply made me lose all confidence and I instead moved on to another seller.

Reply 17 of 21, by Falco

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-08-25, 06:13:

I threw up a little in my mouth.

I'd probably have said something similar if I hadn't tested and used them first hand. These caps have remained stable in long term use without leaking, bulging or altered characteristics like ESR changes or lost capacitance.

I don't think the Chengx/Chengxing caps I have are the same ones found in electronics that go bad because they look a lot different and the markings aren't the same. They're closer in appearance to Nichicon/Rubycon capacitors, where the ones commonly found in consumer electronics tend to look more like ugly green Teapo caps.

They're good general purpose caps when you don't want to spend a lot of money fixing something. The only thing I don't like about them is the legs are a bit thin.

Reply 18 of 21, by gdjacobs

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Falco wrote on 2020-08-27, 21:06:

I'd probably have said something similar if I hadn't tested and used them first hand. These caps have remained stable in long term use without leaking, bulging or altered characteristics like ESR changes or lost capacitance.

I don't think the Chengx/Chengxing caps I have are the same ones found in electronics that go bad because they look a lot different and the markings aren't the same. They're closer in appearance to Nichicon/Rubycon capacitors, where the ones commonly found in consumer electronics tend to look more like ugly green Teapo caps.

They're good general purpose caps when you don't want to spend a lot of money fixing something. The only thing I don't like about them is the legs are a bit thin.

No matter what, I probably wouldn't use them in anything critical, anything which undergoes any kind of stress, or anything which is difficult to service. They definitely do fail (although not so often as the ChongX fake/clone caps). They're like the low end of the cut rate, although definitely better than absolute garbage caps. I think your time is usually more valuable than the few cents you'll save, but even if you want a more economical option there are much better choices available.

All hail the Great Capacitor Brand Finder

Reply 19 of 21, by kalohimal

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gdjacobs wrote on 2020-08-28, 00:03:

I think your time is usually more valuable than the few cents you'll save, but even if you want a more economical option there are much better choices available.

Yes this. I would rather spend a little more to get it done properly, than to have to replace them again a few years down the road.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.