VOGONS


First post, by nzoomed

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Ive recently started reliving my woes and bad memories of the FDD.
For the most part, they actually work fine, providing you have good disks and a clean drive.

Ive been surprised how well a dirty disk with mould has still been able to read on an old drive, but then ive had new disks give me trouble in the past.

Ive got a few old drives that appear to work, but give read errors on boot up, i cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and still gives errors.

Is this typically a head out of align when this sort of thing happens?
Since i have a few brand new drives to spare, is it worth me trying to fix them, or just throw out and use nice new drives?

I see a company called Athana still makes them, in various formats including 8 inch! I wonder if they are the ones still producing them for the DoD?
their website looks old, but the commodore 64 community have been using their disks from what I can tell.

The quality of the later disks, as far as Imation goes anyway seemed to drop off in the later years, one thing i noticed as a cost cutting measure is they did not fill the whole inside of the disk with that micro fibre material to keep them clean and protected, its only got one tiny piece inside, which makes me wonder how easily they get scratched from the casing inside?

I still find the FDD quite impractical, and many DOSgames quickly needed to be spanned on multipule disks anyway and I dont bother using them much other than installing DOS, the odd game or using other boot disks for diagnostics, etc.

I still have not tested my older CD-ROM drive to see if it can read CD-R disks or not, but my only two options are either use CD-ROM or remove the HDD and connect to a PC.
Failing that I could install a CF card adapter at the rear of the PC too.

I try and keep my systems original, particularly XT machines, but modern conveniences help for sure, and save wear and tear on your gear.

regarding keeping the drive heads clean.
How often should you clean the heads? I have a pack of 3M cleaning disks that claim you do not need to add cleaning fluid to them. Are these any good?

Reply 3 of 13, by nzoomed

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kalohimal wrote on 2020-08-06, 03:12:

Why not use a Gotek drive with flash floppy? You run all your stuffs as disk images on a thumb drive and it's hassle free.

yes ive seen those on ebay, ill probably play around with one someday.
For me, i still actually like using the hardware of the period and dont want anything with USB ports on the front of the case.

I might get something that I could add in the back anyway, but I also want to use this machine to at least read and write 5.25 disks for older XT machines eventually too.

I was reading something that the newer HD drives dont write properly to the older 320K single density disks very well, so that may be a problem.

Reply 4 of 13, by nzoomed

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maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-08-06, 03:35:

I use all types of floppies regularly - from 8" to zip disks

I am a floppy disk enthusiast

Im kinda the same, even if I didnt enjoy using them much back in the day (around the time CD writers were crazy expensive and we had no other option 🤣)

Reply 5 of 13, by kalohimal

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Actually Gotek drives has both USB version and FDD interface version too, and with the flashfloppy firmware it can emulate drives from 160k to 2.88M. It connects to the FDD 34-pins IDC connector and acts just like a floppy drive, except it uses thumb drives rather than floppy disks. And it works not only for PC but also Atari, Amiga, etc, including many musical instruments (e.g. keyboards) and hifi equipment. It solves many headaches associated with floppy disks. But of course if you want authentic floppy experience then it's a different story 😉.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 6 of 13, by Grzyb

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nzoomed wrote on 2020-08-06, 02:32:

Ive got a few old drives that appear to work, but give read errors on boot up, i cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and still gives errors.
Is this typically a head out of align when this sort of thing happens?

It can be easily verified - an out-of-align FDD correctly reads diskettes formatted by itself, but fails to read diskettes formatted by a correctly-aligned drive.

I see a company called Athana still makes them, in various formats including 8 inch! I wonder if they are the ones still producing them for the DoD?

I don't think so...
I can see "copyright 1997" on their website, and - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?506 … 4253#post534253
"Athana no longer sells floppy disks, they refer all disk requests now to the FloppyDisk.com"
No Athana disks there, only other brands, and safe bet they are NOS.

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 7 of 13, by nzoomed

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kalohimal wrote on 2020-08-06, 04:08:

Actually Gotek drives has both USB version and FDD interface version too, and with the flashfloppy firmware it can emulate drives from 160k to 2.88M. It connects to the FDD 34-pins IDC connector and acts just like a floppy drive, except it uses thumb drives rather than floppy disks. And it works not only for PC but also Atari, Amiga, etc, including many musical instruments (e.g. keyboards) and hifi equipment. It solves many headaches associated with floppy disks. But of course if you want authentic floppy experience then it's a different story 😉.

I would probably actually find it rather useful for setting up an XT machine or something and then just throw in the real floppy drive when done 😀

Reply 8 of 13, by nzoomed

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Grzyb wrote on 2020-08-06, 04:47:
It can be easily verified - an out-of-align FDD correctly reads diskettes formatted by itself, but fails to read diskettes forma […]
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nzoomed wrote on 2020-08-06, 02:32:

Ive got a few old drives that appear to work, but give read errors on boot up, i cleaned the heads with isopropyl alcohol and still gives errors.
Is this typically a head out of align when this sort of thing happens?

It can be easily verified - an out-of-align FDD correctly reads diskettes formatted by itself, but fails to read diskettes formatted by a correctly-aligned drive.

I see a company called Athana still makes them, in various formats including 8 inch! I wonder if they are the ones still producing them for the DoD?

I don't think so...
I can see "copyright 1997" on their website, and - http://www.vcfed.org/forum/showthread.php?506 … 4253#post534253
"Athana no longer sells floppy disks, they refer all disk requests now to the FloppyDisk.com"
No Athana disks there, only other brands, and safe bet they are NOS.

Well the drive can read disks formatted on my "good" new drive, but gives an error while booting off my DOS floppy I created with that drive which made me think its either partly out of align, or is having trouble reading a track or two.
I can only put it down to the drive,

Reply 9 of 13, by serenitatis

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Diskette is kind of nightmare. I bought 2pcs some old new stock discs and in fact one package is totally peace of crap. It's brings my memories from far past. Whole package go to trash. But some new (really new, L-Pro. I think it's some ODM product) disks is very good. All disks from 2 packages formatted and reads. BTW I don't like diskettes and try not to use it as much as possible.

But for my main retro PC I prefer Gotek emulator and USB drive for images. This is really nice thing. Just checkout that very informative video about Gotek - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taFP1J_lZBI

Reply 10 of 13, by kalohimal

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nzoomed wrote on 2020-08-06, 04:51:

I would probably actually find it rather useful for setting up an XT machine or something and then just throw in the real floppy drive when done 😀

Yes exactly 😀. But nowadays even the Gotek I seldom use. My number one go to drive is the USB thumb drive. When the motherboard doesn't support USB boot, then it will be the SD to IDE adapter with a 512MB SD card. It has all the tools I need and stuffs I want to put into the HDD. When it fails (some old school BIOS might not like it), then the next one in line is the CF to IDE adapter.

Oh btw, you could download the Ultimate Boot CD and boot off CDROM too. It has lots of useful tools in it including memtest86+. And if you mod it to include an image of DOS6.22, it will boot up as drive a: and let you do your stuffs on the HDD. You can even put it onto an SD and boot off using the SD to IDE adapter.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 11 of 13, by nzoomed

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kalohimal wrote on 2020-08-06, 06:33:
nzoomed wrote on 2020-08-06, 04:51:

I would probably actually find it rather useful for setting up an XT machine or something and then just throw in the real floppy drive when done 😀

Yes exactly 😀. But nowadays even the Gotek I seldom use. My number one go to drive is the USB thumb drive. When the motherboard doesn't support USB boot, then it will be the SD to IDE adapter with a 512MB SD card. It has all the tools I need and stuffs I want to put into the HDD. When it fails (some old school BIOS might not like it), then the next one in line is the CF to IDE adapter.

Oh btw, you could download the Ultimate Boot CD and boot off CDROM too. It has lots of useful tools in it including memtest86+. And if you mod it to include an image of DOS6.22, it will boot up as drive a: and let you do your stuffs on the HDD. You can even put it onto an SD and boot off using the SD to IDE adapter.

That sounds pretty cool.
Right now im having issues getting the HDD to read on my windows 10 PC with the USB adaptor, I get the feeling its not compatible with older drives (its a 540MB Seagate medallist)
I wish I could boot off CD on this older 386 system, but the BIOS on those dont support booting off CD's back then. I guess there are ROM chips I could install like XTIDE that would allow this?

Reply 12 of 13, by kalohimal

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Yeah XTIDE could do it too. It's funny that your Win10 PC is having trouble with the HDD via the USB adapter though. Have you tried viewing it in "Disk Management"? Sometimes the attached HDD is not assigned a drive letter, especially when it has some partitions that it doesn't recognize.

Slow down your CPU with CPUSPD for DOS retro gaming.

Reply 13 of 13, by hwh

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They're very useful for interfacing with old systems, but my current computer is (for unknown reasons) not writing floppies correctly out of safe mode. It's driving me up the wall. I don't know what the hell to do.

It's a shame, I used to use them all the time for fun as much as anything. My Athlon 64 3200+ had an Epson pushbutton 5.25" drive.

Which I could put on this system except it won't write correctly 🙄