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Reply 120 of 168, by furan

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Gona wrote on 2020-09-09, 09:21:

Great finding!
Yes, only Verite driver got all 4 type, but GiGi has not only the IR type but has the FR type too (and using by Fatal Racing/Whiplash). So it seems the linked-in-binary GiGi CGL driver is like "IR" type?
I will reorder my tables by time.

Thanks. Yep that's right - it looks like the linked in GiGi is just IR. Not sure if you need to put "supposed" - I have definitely proven this out.

Reply 121 of 168, by Gona

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furan wrote on 2020-09-09, 09:25:

Not sure if you need to put "supposed" - I have definitely proven this out.

Okay 😀

  filename  |header| abbr. meaning  |                    methods                       |0X77
linked-in | none | |fixed point integer + __watcall calling convention|
????B???.CGL| IR |Integer Register|fixed point integer + __watcall calling convention| 00
????E???.CGL| FR |Float Register|floating point + __watcall calling convention| 02
????C???.CGL| IS |Integer Stack |fixed point integer + __stdcall calling convention| 01
????I???.CGL| FS |Float Stack |floating point + __stdcall calling convention| 03

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 122 of 168, by furan

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Gona wrote on 2020-09-09, 09:51:
Okay :) […]
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furan wrote on 2020-09-09, 09:25:

Not sure if you need to put "supposed" - I have definitely proven this out.

Okay 😀

  filename  |header| abbr. meaning  |                    methods                       |0X77
linked-in | none | |fixed point integer + __watcall calling convention|
????B???.CGL| IR |Integer Register|fixed point integer + __watcall calling convention| 00
????E???.CGL| FR |Float Register|floating point + __watcall calling convention| 02
????C???.CGL| IS |Integer Stack |fixed point integer + __stdcall calling convention| 01
????I???.CGL| FS |Float Stack |floating point + __stdcall calling convention| 03

Looks good! 😀

Reply 123 of 168, by vetz

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furan wrote on 2020-09-08, 19:08:

I asked Brian Fargo about the patch. His answer: "I’m too old to remember that!"

Good of him to reply, but its possible he was not that involved with the porting. Did you try to reach Jay Patel as well? Seems he has an active twitter account.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 124 of 168, by furan

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vetz wrote on 2020-09-09, 11:26:
furan wrote on 2020-09-08, 19:08:

I asked Brian Fargo about the patch. His answer: "I’m too old to remember that!"

Good of him to reply, but its possible he was not that involved with the porting. Did you try to reach Jay Patel as well? Seems he has an active twitter account.

I couldn’t find his Twitter account - you’re welcome to ask him.

Reply 125 of 168, by Stiletto

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I nearly forgot about this: I found a "GIGI" reference in a demo for the game CyberSpeed. It might be nothing... we never proved one way or another what it was.
... but it was for Rendermorphics Reality Lab (game engine) and NOT Creative CGL.
We've come across VERY little Reality Lab content so far, in the many years that vetz and myself and others have been looking into these things...
Re: 3D Accelerated Games List (non-3Dfx proprietary APIs)

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 126 of 168, by furan

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furan wrote on 2020-09-09, 11:44:
vetz wrote on 2020-09-09, 11:26:
furan wrote on 2020-09-08, 19:08:

I asked Brian Fargo about the patch. His answer: "I’m too old to remember that!"

Good of him to reply, but its possible he was not that involved with the porting. Did you try to reach Jay Patel as well? Seems he has an active twitter account.

I couldn’t find his Twitter account - you’re welcome to ask him.

Tried asking Jay and got no response.

Talking with Gona in email, on Permedia cards that don't have the IBM RAMDAC, cglQueryScreen() is failing with error 32 (CGL_UNKNOWN_RAMDAC_FOUND). So I tracked down this error in the CGL driver and disassembled some of the RAMDAC code.

Supporting another RAMDAC like the TI one (on the Leadtek card) in the 3Dlabs Permedia CGL driver is a little tricky - I thought about just nopping out the initial RAMDAC detection, but there are several RAMDAC function pointers that are initialized after the IBM RAMDAC is detected, to do things like manipulate the mouse cursor or change the palette. The IBM RAMDAC registers it writes are only compatible with the TI RAMDAC registers in that the first 2 registers (RAMDAC ID and revision) are the same - the rest are different from each other. So I couldn't just make the detection succeed - the TI RAMDAC would end up getting programmed all weird. The best I can do without adding support for the TI RAMDAC with a lot more disassembly and patching, is to make detection succeed and then turn all of the RAMDAC callback functions into "do nothing and succeed."

I may end up doing this but I'm putting it on the backburner for a bit - I want to try writing some tests/demos now that I have a complete enough SDK to build something.

Reply 127 of 168, by Stiletto

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2019-01-30, 14:52:

Is there any list of demoscenes with API's support like vetz 3d acceleration thread? ...
something like that exist at vogons or somewhere else?

Off-topic but: RaVeN-05, we've finally got one now:
3D Accelerated Demoscene Demos for DOS/Windows List (Proprietary APIs - including 3DFX)

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 128 of 168, by Gona

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Stiletto wrote on 2020-09-11, 00:13:
I nearly forgot about this: I found a "GIGI" reference in a demo for the game CyberSpeed. It might be nothing... we never proved […]
Show full quote

I nearly forgot about this: I found a "GIGI" reference in a demo for the game CyberSpeed. It might be nothing... we never proved one way or another what it was.
... but it was for Rendermorphics Reality Lab (game engine) and NOT Creative CGL.
We've come across VERY little Reality Lab content so far, in the many years that vetz and myself and others have been looking into these things...
Re: 3D Accelerated Games List (non-3Dfx proprietary APIs)

I'm going to try my 3D Blaster VLB with Win95 and try to test it.

furan wrote on 2020-09-11, 03:47:
Tried asking Jay and got no response. […]
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furan wrote on 2020-09-09, 11:44:
vetz wrote on 2020-09-09, 11:26:

Good of him to reply, but its possible he was not that involved with the porting. Did you try to reach Jay Patel as well? Seems he has an active twitter account.

I couldn’t find his Twitter account - you’re welcome to ask him.

Tried asking Jay and got no response.

Talking with Gona in email, on Permedia cards that don't have the IBM RAMDAC, cglQueryScreen() is failing with error 32 (CGL_UNKNOWN_RAMDAC_FOUND). So I tracked down this error in the CGL driver and disassembled some of the RAMDAC code.

Supporting another RAMDAC like the TI one (on the Leadtek card) in the 3Dlabs Permedia CGL driver is a little tricky - I thought about just nopping out the initial RAMDAC detection, but there are several RAMDAC function pointers that are initialized after the IBM RAMDAC is detected, to do things like manipulate the mouse cursor or change the palette. The IBM RAMDAC registers it writes are only compatible with the TI RAMDAC registers in that the first 2 registers (RAMDAC ID and revision) are the same - the rest are different from each other. So I couldn't just make the detection succeed - the TI RAMDAC would end up getting programmed all weird. The best I can do without adding support for the TI RAMDAC with a lot more disassembly and patching, is to make detection succeed and then turn all of the RAMDAC callback functions into "do nothing and succeed."

I may end up doing this but I'm putting it on the backburner for a bit - I want to try writing some tests/demos now that I have a complete enough SDK to build something.

Yes, the turn all of the RAMDAC callback functions into "do nothing and succeed" sounds more feasible.

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 129 of 168, by RaVeN-05

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so i am looked into Cirrus Logics video cards
from wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_Logic
"CL-GD546X – The Laguna VisualMedia family of 2D, 3D, and video accelerators. '64 and '65 include 3D acceleration (PCI, AGP). These chips use a single channel of RDRAM memory, providing up to 600 MB/s bandwidth. The '62 lacks 3D acceleration. All include a BitBLT engine, video windows, and 64×64 hardware cursor."
from gona site:
https://gona.mactar.hu/3D/CGL/
"CL-GD54621
&
CL-GD5464
L3D="Laguna3D""

So what i spot?
at wikipedia GD5462 doesnot have 3d acceleration at gona it not tested. Anyone can test to comfirm?
CL-GD5464 wiki&gona = ok
CL-GD5465 wiki - says it have 3d, gona not mentioned that. Anyone can do test to confirm?

from gona
"Permedia NT card
(Permedia + GLINT Delta)
with IBM DAC
PDL="Permedia Delta"" also someone can test it?

P.S. Did Diamond Fire GL 1000 also works with some cgl games?

https://hexenworld.org/forum/index.php (Heretic's & HeXen's forum)
https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv

Reply 130 of 168, by RaVeN-05

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Also this interested in compatibility for CGL
ELSA Gloria-4 with S3 Vision 968 chip (4MB) for 2D / video and 3Dlabs 300SX (8MB) for 3D ( source )
anyone can test, who can have that card?

https://hexenworld.org/forum/index.php (Heretic's & HeXen's forum)
https://www.youtube.com/user/whitemagicraven
https://go.twitch.tv/whitemagicraventv

Reply 131 of 168, by Gona

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RaVeN-05 wrote on 2020-10-08, 10:04:

CL-GD5465 wiki - says it have 3d, gona not mentioned that. Anyone can do test to confirm?

Yes, CL-GD5465 has 3D. But earlier I have mentioned CL-GD5465:

Gona wrote on 2019-08-21, 22:26:
RaVeN-05 wrote:

by the logic? Some Video cards Later than CT6200, CT6240, CT6260 can have a chance to support CGL i think.

CT6510 "Graphics Blaster Eclipse" (with Cirrus Logic CL-GD5465) supports nothing CGL

The laguna CGL driver seek only the CL-GD5462 and CL-GD5464 PCI IDs (DEV:00D2 and 00D4) but not CL-GD5465 (DEV:00D6) only this is why Laguna CGL driver is not compatible with CL-GD5465 (not chip desing incompatibily reasons).
Bilinear filter of CL-GD5464 is very hacky, as if it only approximately doubles number of texels. CL-GD5465 fixed that.
I have no CL-GD5462 card because rare and expensive. Should work with Laguna CGL driver similar as CL-GD5464 so I think CL-GD5462 has also some 3D capabilities.


RaVeN-05 wrote on 2020-10-09, 15:47:

Also this interested in compatibility for CGL
ELSA Gloria-4 with S3 Vision 968 chip (4MB) for 2D / video and 3Dlabs 300SX (8MB) for 3D ( source )
anyone can test, who can have that card?

My 300SX card is also an ELSA Gloria one but has different 2D chip. No one CGL driver work with it currently as we have written before.

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 132 of 168, by vetz

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Stiletto wrote on 2020-09-11, 00:13:
I nearly forgot about this: I found a "GIGI" reference in a demo for the game CyberSpeed. It might be nothing... we never proved […]
Show full quote

I nearly forgot about this: I found a "GIGI" reference in a demo for the game CyberSpeed. It might be nothing... we never proved one way or another what it was.
... but it was for Rendermorphics Reality Lab (game engine) and NOT Creative CGL.
We've come across VERY little Reality Lab content so far, in the many years that vetz and myself and others have been looking into these things...
Re: 3D Accelerated Games List (non-3Dfx proprietary APIs)

Furan, did you ever check this out? The .dll files/references can be downloaded from here: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcgamer/pcgamer014/CY … RSPD/RMORPH/RL/ Looks to be one file for integer and one for float as with CGL.
I believe this is the developers either testing or implementing support for the 300SX or maybe the 3D Blaster VLB through Rendermorphics Reality Lab and not CGL as Stiletto also said.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 133 of 168, by furan

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vetz wrote on 2020-10-25, 18:34:

Furan, did you ever check this out? The .dll files/references can be downloaded from here: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcgamer/pcgamer014/CY … RSPD/RMORPH/RL/ Looks to be one file for integer and one for float as with CGL.
I believe this is the developers either testing or implementing support for the 300SX or maybe the 3D Blaster VLB through Rendermorphics Reality Lab and not CGL as Stiletto also said.

I had heard there was some support in Reality Lab and did some searching but couldn't find much - however this seems to confirm the story - I'll take a look.

Reply 134 of 168, by furan

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So these are indeed GLINT drivers. They don't "forward" to CGL drivers - it looks like they are their own drivers with code specific to use GiGi for RAMP shading.

This is from the era where D3D was grafted onto the edge of DDraw, so it's hard to tell what these actually do, but someone should copy the files "up" into the higher directory and test this game on a machine with a 3D Blaster VLB.

Reply 135 of 168, by Stiletto

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furan wrote on 2020-10-25, 19:36:
vetz wrote on 2020-10-25, 18:34:

Furan, did you ever check this out? The .dll files/references can be downloaded from here: http://cd.textfiles.com/pcgamer/pcgamer014/CY … RSPD/RMORPH/RL/ Looks to be one file for integer and one for float as with CGL.
I believe this is the developers either testing or implementing support for the 300SX or maybe the 3D Blaster VLB through Rendermorphics Reality Lab and not CGL as Stiletto also said.

I had heard there was some support in Reality Lab and did some searching but couldn't find much - however this seems to confirm the story - I'll take a look.

I agree - and I never could find much out about Reality Lab period, aside from the current whereabouts of the Rendermorphics project leads. As I recall, I emailed one once, but he allegedly hadn't held onto any of the old stuff after their Microsoft acquisition. This Cyberspeed find was the most interesting Reality Lab discovery so far to date, and it happened years ago.
Game list so far: Re: 3D Accelerated Games List (non-3Dfx proprietary APIs)

furan wrote on 2020-10-25, 19:57:

So these are indeed GLINT drivers. They don't "forward" to CGL drivers - it looks like they are their own drivers with code specific to use GiGi for RAMP shading.

This is from the era where D3D was grafted onto the edge of DDraw, so it's hard to tell what these actually do, but someone should copy the files "up" into the higher directory and test this game on a machine with a 3D Blaster VLB.

Awesome, thanks for the verification! I think Gona said he'd give it a try.

"I see a little silhouette-o of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you
do the Fandango!" - Queen

Stiletto

Reply 136 of 168, by vetz

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I looked back into my notes and I thought I had tested Cyberspeed on 3D Blaster VLB, but I think it didnt happen. Its a Windows 95 game and I had trouble getting my 3D Blaster working in Win95. This has to be the only Win95 game that have 3D Blaster VLB support. Also support seems to only be included in the demo, unless there are different retail releases.

3D Accelerated Games List (Proprietary APIs - No 3DFX/Direct3D)
3D Acceleration Comparison Episodes

Reply 137 of 168, by Gona

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Stiletto wrote on 2020-10-26, 00:28:

Awesome, thanks for the verification! I think Gona said he'd give it a try.

Yeah, this is my next project. I hope I can test it this week.

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix

Reply 138 of 168, by furan

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vetz wrote on 2020-10-26, 10:33:

I looked back into my notes and I thought I had tested Cyberspeed on 3D Blaster VLB, but I think it didnt happen. Its a Windows 95 game and I had trouble getting my 3D Blaster working in Win95. This has to be the only Win95 game that have 3D Blaster VLB support. Also support seems to only be included in the demo, unless there are different retail releases.

Something I wasn’t expecting to find but did is that the GiGi CGL drivers make VXD calls. It looks like it tries to support Win9x, but you might need their early driver. I've uploaded it here. It's much less complex than the official distributed driver w/files dated 1998. This same version of the driver was on both the DirectX 2 & 3 CDs:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlner70kjf3c9ra/3D% … 200.98.zip?dl=1

The way that RenderMorphics engine/runtime scans for acceleration DLLs it just searches for filenames that match a certain pattern (which those GiGi DLLs have). So if you're able to get 3D Blaster support working in the demo, you might be able to copy them into the full version and get it working.

Reply 139 of 168, by Gona

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furan wrote on 2020-10-26, 20:02:
Something I wasn’t expecting to find but did is that the GiGi CGL drivers make VXD calls. It looks like it tries to support Win9 […]
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vetz wrote on 2020-10-26, 10:33:

I looked back into my notes and I thought I had tested Cyberspeed on 3D Blaster VLB, but I think it didnt happen. Its a Windows 95 game and I had trouble getting my 3D Blaster working in Win95. This has to be the only Win95 game that have 3D Blaster VLB support. Also support seems to only be included in the demo, unless there are different retail releases.

Something I wasn’t expecting to find but did is that the GiGi CGL drivers make VXD calls. It looks like it tries to support Win9x, but you might need their early driver. I've uploaded it here. It's much less complex than the official distributed driver w/files dated 1998. This same version of the driver was on both the DirectX 2 & 3 CDs:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlner70kjf3c9ra/3D% … 200.98.zip?dl=1

The way that RenderMorphics engine/runtime scans for acceleration DLLs it just searches for filenames that match a certain pattern (which those GiGi DLLs have). So if you're able to get 3D Blaster support working in the demo, you might be able to copy them into the full version and get it working.

Are GiGi CGL drivers make VXD calls? Really strange, I was sure about CGL drivers are DOS only. This is surprising. Are all GiGi CGL do VxD calls, even the linked-in-binary CGLs too?
Thanks for the driver, today I try to make the first test.

Videocard compatibility matrix for DOS games | ATI3DCIF compatibility matrix | CGL API compatibility matrix