VOGONS


First post, by adi88

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Hi everyone,

This is my first post on this forum, so bear with me 😀
I wonder if anyone can help me. I recently purchased a "working" and pretty expensive Sound Blaster 16 from eBay, however I can't seem to get it working.
I should mention that this is the only SB16 that I have (and probably my first non-pnp card). So even though I suspect that the sound card is dead, I just need confirmation from someone with more experience.

The issue: in Windows 98 MS-DOS mode, only FM is working, I can't activate the digital speech in any game. I ran the Diagnose utility from Creative and the error is always the same: "the diagnostic utility has detected that the current Base I/O address of your audio card cannot be used". This card only has jumpers for i/o address (IRQ, DMA can only be configured through the Creative software). And, of course, I tried setting the i/o to 220, 240, 260 and 280... but the error persists.
I first tried the card on a 440BX motherboard and then switched to a Socket 7 430TX Pentium MMX - same error. I also disabled all unnecessary devices in the BIOS.
I also tried the card in Windows 98 SE - went to control panel, ran the non-pnp devices detection wizard and it only finds two devices:
1. OPL3 Device (the FM chip)
2. MPU-401 midi interface
I'm guessing that this is not OK, it should also see a third device, the actual SB16. I also ran the sbw9xup.exe (updwin95 utility), without success.

So... is it safe to say that this sound card is dead? Anything else that I could try? It's a shame, though, because visually seems to be in very good condition.

Reply 1 of 15, by Horun

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Your card is a psuedo PnP, you have to install the DOS Plug-n-Play util.
Which DOS drivers for which SB16?
Get the "Creative PnP Configuration Manager" here:
https://support.creative.com/Products/Product … %20Blaster%2016

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 15, by mkarcher

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Horun wrote on 2020-09-13, 21:39:
Your card is a psuedo PnP, you have to install the DOS Plug-n-Play util. Which DOS drivers for which SB16? Get the "Creative PnP […]
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Your card is a psuedo PnP, you have to install the DOS Plug-n-Play util.
Which DOS drivers for which SB16?
Get the "Creative PnP Configuration Manager" here:
https://support.creative.com/Products/Product … %20Blaster%2016

The Creative PnP Configuration Manager (CTCM) is only used for "real" PnP cards, like the CT2910. The earlier soft-configurable Sound Blaster models, like for example the CT2290, do not need CTCM, they need to be set up using "DIAGNOSE /S" from autoexec.bat, with the BLASTER variable already set (to change the port, re-jumper the card and replace A220, to change IRQ and DMA, just change I5, D1 or H5 and reboot). But they also should be recognized by the non-PnP device detection in Windows 95/98, even without the installation of the DOS utilities.

If your ISA bus is overclocked or running at quite low 8-bit waitstates, you might get a problem with fast CPUs and older sound-cards, though. Before concluding the card is dead, try increasing the "8 bit I/O recovery time" in the BIOS setup (if such a setting is available).

Reply 3 of 15, by LSS10999

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CT2290 doesn't have jumpers for IRQ and DMA and needs to be manually configured. I had one myself that defaults itself to IRQ10 and DMA3. Some games accept this setting, but others (namely Wolf3D) would freeze with this setting.

First set BLASTER to I5 D1 H5 (IRQ5, DMA1, H-DMA5), then run DIAGNOSE /S. If it correctly shows you that the audio card is being configured at the right IRQ and DMA then you're good, the card should be working.

As for Windows, try installing Sound Blaster 16 VxD driver manually (since it's not really a PnP) and see if the device works. From what I remember, Sound Blaster 16 drivers should already have included MPU-401 and OPL3 in its resource configurations, so you may need to uninstall the Adlib (OPL3) and MPU401 drivers first (if you have).

It still feels strange, though, that in your case only the FM and MPU401 components are being detected by Windows while the sound card itself is not...

Reply 4 of 15, by Horun

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Good points but have also read on VCF that the 2290 cards need the CTCM to configure it proper by some. I do not have one so cannot confirm.
The OPL FM and MPU401 are sorta hardwired to ports 388 and 300 iirc so if the SB16 part is not seen (and no jumpers for IRQ/DMA) then it is indeed similar to Aztech's that need software to configure it.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 5 of 15, by adi88

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Hello all,

Thank you for the responses.
Regarding initializing the card with Creative CTCM (95dosapp.exe), I should have been more specific that I tried it and it failed (which is why I actually also tried the Diagnose utility from the same package and I get the error mentioned in the first post). I also configured the SET BLASTER line prior to running the creative installer (SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6).

The card is definitely not pseudo-pnp, it's 100% non-pnp (the fact that some resources are configured through software does not make it PnP).
As I mentioned before, when detecting non-pnp devices with the Windows wizard, only two are found: the OPL3 device and the MPU-401 device. I'm absolutely sure that there should also be a third device - the actual sound blaster. And the Creative windows installer does not work either (from what I read, under normal conditions, the process should be very fast and straightforward).
I've attached some screenshots with the two devices that Windows finds during the non-pnp detection phase and the DOS behavior. I'm pretty sure that the card is dead, I just need confirmation from someone who has a similar card.

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Reply 6 of 15, by pan069

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According to the photo of the card the base address is set to 0x260. Are those jumpers (12 and 13) still set that way?

https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/sound-cards-mult … R-16-PRO-C.html

Edit: Oops... Ignore me... 😀

Last edited by pan069 on 2020-09-14, 06:47. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 15, by appiah4

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The post above is wrong, on the photo JP12/13 appears closed and that is the correct configuration for Address 220.

Regardless, do a google search for SBCHECK.EXE, download it, then run it on ports 220,240 and 260

SBCHECK.EXE 220
SBCHECK.EXE 240
SBCHECK.EXE 260

See if it detects a SB16 DSP and tell us what it reports. If not, the card is almost certainly faulty.

Have you tried setting PnP OS to No in the BIOS (I always do this regardless of OS as it messes up everything more often than configuring things correctly..) Also in the BIOS make sure you go into IRQ/DMA configuration and set that to manual, then change IRQ5, DMA1 and DMA5 to Legacy ISA..

For the record this is my functional CT2290 if you want to copy jumper settings or verify components on the card:

Creative-Sound-Blaster-16-CT2290.jpg

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 8 of 15, by adi88

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-09-14, 06:39:
The post above is wrong, on the photo JP12/13 appears closed and that is the correct configuration for Address 220. […]
Show full quote

The post above is wrong, on the photo JP12/13 appears closed and that is the correct configuration for Address 220.

Regardless, do a google search for SBCHECK.EXE, download it, then run it on ports 220,240 and 260

SBCHECK.EXE 220
SBCHECK.EXE 240
SBCHECK.EXE 260

See if it detects a SB16 DSP and tell us what it reports. If not, the card is almost certainly faulty.

Have you tried setting PnP OS to No in the BIOS (I always do this regardless of OS as it messes up everything more often than configuring things correctly..) Also in the BIOS make sure you go into IRQ/DMA configuration and set that to manual, then change IRQ5, DMA1 and DMA5 to Legacy ISA..

Thanks, appiah4.
I downloaded the SBCheck utility and... yeah, the attached photo is self-explanatory. I guess it's just further confirmation of what I already knew: the card is semi-dead. My guess is that the ebay seller (which is a computer store, actually), did not actually thoroughly test it. They probably saw that the card was detected, FM was working and... that's it. 🙁

The PnP OS option was already set to no and I did try with yes. And I also tried all IRQ options in the BIOS (no DMA options - at least on the current motherboard on which I'm testing it).

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Reply 10 of 15, by adi88

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For sure! I already contacted the seller on Friday, since I was already 99% sure that it's dead (as it stands, I ended up testing it on 3 different motherboards). I just wanted a final, foolproof confirmation. 😀
Thank you!

Reply 11 of 15, by adi88

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Update: the company that sold me the sound card on eBay contacted me, they will send a replacement SB16 CT2290 in the following days. They don't even want me to return this one (which makes sense, I don't think such a problem can easily be repaired - unless you are Louis Rossmann) 😀

Reply 12 of 15, by appiah4

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adi88 wrote on 2020-09-14, 13:09:

Update: the company that sold me the sound card on eBay contacted me, they will send a replacement SB16 CT2290 in the following days. They don't even want me to return this one (which makes sense, I don't think such a problem can easily be repaired - unless you are Louis Rossmann) 😀

You can still use this one as basically an Adlib with an MPU-401 port.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 14 of 15, by adi88

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Update:
The replacement card has arrived (fastest international delivery that I've ever witnessed until now, if I might add), and this one works perfectly (as one would expect).
As I suspected, when running the "non-PNP detection wizard", the SB16 digital audio is also detected and Windows 98 sound works great.
DOS sound is also working great (well, with the exception of the well known SB16 issues).
So, if anybody will have a similar issue in the future, just remember that the card should just work without any hassle whatsoever.
Some pics with the new card and what is considered as being a normal behavior:

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