VOGONS


First post, by egbertjan

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

I have the following 2 graphic cards a tseng et4000 ax and a UMC UM85C408AF (see the pictures below) for my 486 pc with msdos 6.22 / Windows3.11. Now I have the following problem with my graphic cards when I install the driver in windows 3.11 , I get artifacts with both graphic cards. Could this be because the jumpers are wrong on the cards? I read somewhere that the jumpers may be for setting 16 or 8 bit isa locks. Who can tell me if the jumpers are for that or maybe they are for something else and how to set them.

Does anyone know which of these 2 cards is the fastest and which one I can put the best in my PC?

I would also like to know if the tseng et4000 ax is a 512kb or a 1mb card. How can I find out?

This is there in my pc
FIC 4386-VIO
Creative AWE 32 ct3900
486dx266
16mbram

20201018_170837.jpg
Filename
20201018_170837.jpg
File size
1.49 MiB
Views
495 views
File license
Public domain
20201018_170823.jpg
Filename
20201018_170823.jpg
File size
1.58 MiB
Views
495 views
File license
Public domain
20201018_170751.jpg
Filename
20201018_170751.jpg
File size
1.98 MiB
Views
495 views
File license
Public domain
20201018_170658.jpg
Filename
20201018_170658.jpg
File size
1.79 MiB
Views
495 views
File license
Public domain
Last edited by egbertjan on 2020-10-18, 15:57. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 1 of 18, by matze79

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

UMC haha nice find 😀

https://dosreloaded.de - The German Retro DOS PC Community
https://www.retroianer.de - under constructing since ever

Co2 - for a endless Summer

Reply 2 of 18, by Grzyb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
egbertjan wrote on 2020-10-18, 15:49:

I would also like to know if the tseng et4000 ax is a 512kb or a 1mb card. How can I find out?

44256 chip = 256K * 4 bits
So you have 512 KB total.
If there are artifacts, it would be a good idea to replace those chips with tested-good ones, preferably full 1 MB.

Reply 4 of 18, by waterbeesje

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Cool, I had the same dilemma some time back.
I had to choose between the 408, the ET4000ax and V7 5424.
I actually tested all three with Phills bench series and all cards seem to be limited by the ISA bus. My 486 DX50 (not a DX2) makes them perform equally fast, with about 1% difference max.
The UMC has a disadvantage: to get vesa modes you need to load a TSR, otherwise it simply won't do anything else but plain VGA modes (but still fast).

Since that system is loaded with UMC chips (chipset and I/o), I decided to keep the UMC in and settled with the TSR.

About the et: get yourself some replacement ram chips and replace all of them all along with adding new ones to the empty sockets. Your chips are rated 80ns, but I'd look for 70ns at minimum, preferably 60ns.

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 5 of 18, by egbertjan

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-18, 17:02:
44256 chip = 256K * 4 bits So you have 512 KB total. If there are artifacts, it would be a good idea to replace those chips with […]
Show full quote
egbertjan wrote on 2020-10-18, 15:49:

I would also like to know if the tseng et4000 ax is a 512kb or a 1mb card. How can I find out?

44256 chip = 256K * 4 bits
So you have 512 KB total.
If there are artifacts, it would be a good idea to replace those chips with tested-good ones, preferably full 1 MB.

Thanks, do you have a suggestion which chips I should buy?

Reply 6 of 18, by egbertjan

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
waterbeesje wrote on 2020-10-18, 17:21:
Cool, I had the same dilemma some time back. I had to choose between the 408, the ET4000ax and V7 5424. I actually tested all th […]
Show full quote

Cool, I had the same dilemma some time back.
I had to choose between the 408, the ET4000ax and V7 5424.
I actually tested all three with Phills bench series and all cards seem to be limited by the ISA bus. My 486 DX50 (not a DX2) makes them perform equally fast, with about 1% difference max.
The UMC has a disadvantage: to get vesa modes you need to load a TSR, otherwise it simply won't do anything else but plain VGA modes (but still fast).

Since that system is loaded with UMC chips (chipset and I/o), I decided to keep the UMC in and settled with the TSR.

About the et: get yourself some replacement ram chips and replace all of them all along with adding new ones to the empty sockets. Your chips are rated 80ns, but I'd look for 70ns at minimum, preferably 60ns.

Thanks, but which TSR did you use?

Reply 7 of 18, by Grzyb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
egbertjan wrote on 2020-10-18, 20:24:

Thanks, do you have a suggestion which chips I should buy?

Identical to those currently installed.
If you can't find identical, than any FPM DRAM 256Kx4 DIP20 80ns-or-faster should work.

As for the speed...
http://vgamuseum.info/index.php/companies/ite … -tseng-et4000ax - as you can see, the chips used are mostly 70ns or 80ns, one card has 60ns
but I don't know if there's some gain from using the faster ones.

Reply 8 of 18, by PD2JK

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Sorry to hijack this topic a bit, does the VGA BIOS detect the speed of the memory chips installed? Or how does that work. 😀

Tulip Vision Line DC: 386SX 16 MHz
Highscreen AT: Pentium MMX 200 MHz
AOpen HX45: Athlon (classic) 700 MHz
Highscreen ATX: Athlon (classic) 1 GHz

Reply 9 of 18, by Doornkaat

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
PD2JK wrote on 2020-10-19, 05:07:

Sorry to hijack this topic a bit, does the VGA BIOS detect the speed of the memory chips installed? Or how does that work. 😀

The VGA BIOS on those cards does not detect the chips' speed. All chips are operated at a predefined speed regardless of their rated speed.
If the chip is faster it won't show. If it can't keep up it will malfunction.

Reply 10 of 18, by waterbeesje

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
egbertjan wrote on 2020-10-18, 20:27:
waterbeesje wrote on 2020-10-18, 17:21:
Cool, I had the same dilemma some time back. I had to choose between the 408, the ET4000ax and V7 5424. I actually tested all th […]
Show full quote

Cool, I had the same dilemma some time back.
I had to choose between the 408, the ET4000ax and V7 5424.
I actually tested all three with Phills bench series and all cards seem to be limited by the ISA bus. My 486 DX50 (not a DX2) makes them perform equally fast, with about 1% difference max.
The UMC has a disadvantage: to get vesa modes you need to load a TSR, otherwise it simply won't do anything else but plain VGA modes (but still fast).

Since that system is loaded with UMC chips (chipset and I/o), I decided to keep the UMC in and settled with the TSR.

About the et: get yourself some replacement ram chips and replace all of them all along with adding new ones to the empty sockets. Your chips are rated 80ns, but I'd look for 70ns at minimum, preferably 60ns.

Thanks, but which TSR did you use?

The disk image attached here 😀
Not mine, just found somewhere on the net.
It contains all kinds of drivers.
(You may open the exe with a zip program to see what files you'll need)

Attachments

  • Filename
    UMCVGA.zip
    File size
    1.08 MiB
    Downloads
    5 downloads
    File comment
    driver disk
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Stuck at 10MHz...

Reply 11 of 18, by Baoran

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I have that exact ET4000AX card and even though I am not saying it is slow, but it is the slowest ET4000AX card I have. The 2 other ET4000AX cards I have are faster. I have tried changing the jumpers when I tested the cards and I have not noticed changing the jumpers to cause that kind of issues.

Reply 12 of 18, by alvaro84

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

I have seen slow ET4000 cards too. Yesterday I was lucky, it sped up when I changed JP1. Of course it's different on various cards. Maybe sometimes none of them work.

Shame on us, doomed from the start
May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts

Reply 13 of 18, by Grzyb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Oh yeah, some ET4000 cards come with a jumper to set wait states - http://www.uncreativelabs.de/th99/v/U-Z/50623.htm
The card this thread is about, however, lacks the pins for JP1 - perhaps it's factory-configured for 1WS, in order to work with the slow 80ns memory?

Reply 14 of 18, by Baoran

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
alvaro84 wrote on 2020-10-20, 03:28:

I have seen slow ET4000 cards too. Yesterday I was lucky, it sped up when I changed JP1. Of course it's different on various cards. Maybe sometimes none of them work.

I have not been able to figure out what makes one ET4000AX card faster than another. All 3 cards that I have are different speeds and this one that I have in the picture is clearly the fastest out of 3 while the card that which picture was in the first post of this thread is the slowest.

Attachments

  • machtseng.jpg
    Filename
    machtseng.jpg
    File size
    1.59 MiB
    Views
    209 views
    File license
    Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 15 of 18, by Grzyb

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Baoran wrote on 2020-10-20, 05:05:

I have not been able to figure out what makes one ET4000AX card faster than another. All 3 cards that I have are different speeds and this one that I have in the picture is clearly the fastest out of 3 while the card that which picture was in the first post of this thread is the slowest.

It seems to be obvious: the card with 60ns DRAM is the fastest, the one with 80ns is the slowest.
But the question remains: how exactly are DRAM access times controlled on such cards?
Is it just jumpers/hardwired? Or something in the VGA BIOS?

Reply 16 of 18, by Baoran

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Grzyb wrote on 2020-10-20, 07:15:
It seems to be obvious: the card with 60ns DRAM is the fastest, the one with 80ns is the slowest. But the question remains: how […]
Show full quote
Baoran wrote on 2020-10-20, 05:05:

I have not been able to figure out what makes one ET4000AX card faster than another. All 3 cards that I have are different speeds and this one that I have in the picture is clearly the fastest out of 3 while the card that which picture was in the first post of this thread is the slowest.

It seems to be obvious: the card with 60ns DRAM is the fastest, the one with 80ns is the slowest.
But the question remains: how exactly are DRAM access times controlled on such cards?
Is it just jumpers/hardwired? Or something in the VGA BIOS?

It isn't as simple because it beats a diamond speedstar card that also has same speed ram.

Reply 17 of 18, by egbertjan

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

On my Tseng ET4000AX are 4 of these memorychips: KM44C256BP-8. I suppose that means they are 80 nSec. Would it be possible to replace these with the chips on the card above, the HY534256ALS-60, so that my card becomes faster?

Could it be that faster memory and/or more memory solve the problem with artefacts?

Reply 18 of 18, by Baoran

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
egbertjan wrote on 2020-10-21, 17:07:

On my Tseng ET4000AX are 4 of these memorychips: KM44C256BP-8. I suppose that means they are 80 nSec. Would it be possible to replace these with the chips on the card above, the HY534256ALS-60, so that my card becomes faster?

Could it be that faster memory and/or more memory solve the problem with artefacts?

I don't know if memory makes it faster because it seems there are faster and slower cards with same memory speed too. The artifacts would only disappear if the memory was faulty to begin with, so if you can you could try similar ram from another working card to test that before buying more ram for it to make sure.