VOGONS


Reply 20 of 60, by Pierre32

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 19:47:

how is the sbpro 2.0 sound for old dos games and I see it has MPU401 full support.

Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Cards that support Intelligent Mode are:

  • An original Roland MPU interface card & breakout box (rare and expensive)
  • An original Music Quest PC MIDI card (as above)
  • A modern reproduction of the PC MIDI card (see Keropi's signature)
  • An Orpheus sound card with the PC MIDI option (see Keropi's signature)
  • A HardMPU card (another VOGONS project, you can occasionally find them assembled for sale on ebay - search item number 274550075882)

Of these, only the Orpheus is a fully integrated card that covers all sound & MIDI functions. Most are MIDI only cards that need to be installed alongside a sound card.

You will need to run SoftMPU with all of your existing sound cards, as well as with any SB / SB compatible card you can buy - with the exception of the Orpheus.

Reply 22 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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Pierre32 wrote on 2020-10-31, 00:10:
Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Ca […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 19:47:

how is the sbpro 2.0 sound for old dos games and I see it has MPU401 full support.

Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Cards that support Intelligent Mode are:

  • An original Roland MPU interface card & breakout box (rare and expensive)
  • An original Music Quest PC MIDI card (as above)
  • A modern reproduction of the PC MIDI card (see Keropi's signature)
  • An Orpheus sound card with the PC MIDI option (see Keropi's signature)
  • A HardMPU card (another VOGONS project, you can occasionally find them assembled for sale on ebay - search item number 274550075882)

Of these, only the Orpheus is a fully integrated card that covers all sound & MIDI functions. Most are MIDI only cards that need to be installed alongside a sound card.

You will need to run SoftMPU with all of your existing sound cards, as well as with any SB / SB compatible card you can buy - with the exception of the Orpheus.

Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!

Reply 23 of 60, by kolderman

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-31, 07:20:
Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu car […]
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Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!

Yes it does and buying a dedicated mpu card is the bestest of options as you are free to use other cards without worrying about midi support.

Reply 24 of 60, by dionb

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-31, 07:20:
Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card […]
Show full quote
Pierre32 wrote on 2020-10-31, 00:10:
Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Ca […]
Show full quote
Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 19:47:

how is the sbpro 2.0 sound for old dos games and I see it has MPU401 full support.

Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Cards that support Intelligent Mode are:

  • An original Roland MPU interface card & breakout box (rare and expensive)
  • An original Music Quest PC MIDI card (as above)
  • A modern reproduction of the PC MIDI card (see Keropi's signature)
  • An Orpheus sound card with the PC MIDI option (see Keropi's signature)
  • A HardMPU card (another VOGONS project, you can occasionally find them assembled for sale on ebay - search item number 274550075882)

Of these, only the Orpheus is a fully integrated card that covers all sound & MIDI functions. Most are MIDI only cards that need to be installed alongside a sound card.

You will need to run SoftMPU with all of your existing sound cards, as well as with any SB / SB compatible card you can buy - with the exception of the Orpheus.

Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!

About the cards:

- there's nothing technically superior about the SBPro2. It is old and simple. It's great advantage is purely that it is the card a lot of games designed for, so absolutely minimal chance of compatibility issues. No MPU-401. Does have real OPL3. Non-PnP
- AWE64 has vastly more functionality, including MPU-401, but adds bugs too (MIDI slowdown), isn't 100% SBPro2 compatible (mixed up stereo in some games) and doesn't have real OPL3 (and it's emulation of it, called CQM, is not considered good). Better for newer games, less so for MT-32 era stuff. PnP.
- ESS1868 is a very good SBPro2 clone with added MPU-401 and WSS (16b sound). No OPL3 but it's emulation (ESFM) is considered good. Also no bugs. PnP.

Reply 25 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 10:46:
About the cards: […]
Show full quote
Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-31, 07:20:
Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card […]
Show full quote
Pierre32 wrote on 2020-10-31, 00:10:
Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Ca […]
Show full quote

Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Cards that support Intelligent Mode are:

  • An original Roland MPU interface card & breakout box (rare and expensive)
  • An original Music Quest PC MIDI card (as above)
  • A modern reproduction of the PC MIDI card (see Keropi's signature)
  • An Orpheus sound card with the PC MIDI option (see Keropi's signature)
  • A HardMPU card (another VOGONS project, you can occasionally find them assembled for sale on ebay - search item number 274550075882)

Of these, only the Orpheus is a fully integrated card that covers all sound & MIDI functions. Most are MIDI only cards that need to be installed alongside a sound card.

You will need to run SoftMPU with all of your existing sound cards, as well as with any SB / SB compatible card you can buy - with the exception of the Orpheus.

Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!Does hardmpu support intelligent mode? I own a few SBpro 2.0 cards and would prefer just to invest my money into a hardmpu card but will I have the same issues with game bugs?

So just to be clear I want to test my AWE64 card tomorrow along side my SBpro 2.0 . The AWE 64 will of course will go to the mt32 using the uhart.. I understand I will have to still use softmpu for intelligent based games. And I believe there is only 1 bug in tie fighter which causes minor slow down with this card.

Will I be able to run all the sierra games with the awe64 and will some regular games that do not need the intelligent mode , i assume will be automatically picked up by the mt-32?

It would seem the orpheus is a nice card with everything built in but what i understand it is a REAL OPL 3 "not emulated", I think the original SBpro 2.0 had OPL3 but is somewhat superior to other cards out there for some reason , especially in speech/FM on older games as well.

So it would seem the orpheus is an all in one solution for midi games.

My other option was the Sound Card ES1868F audiovox which has been raved about on vogons. This card is PNP which I guess can be crutch but can be fixed and has outstanding OPL 3 support which I assume is a real OPL 3 not emulated.
I will still have to use softmpu to get the 58 intelligent games working and picked up by the mt-32, however I would get 16bit sound with the Sound Card ES1868F audio vox vs the sbpro 2.0. I guess only a few games out there may cause issues with adlib on this card?

My other option is just run the AWE 64 but how good is this card when compared to a real SB 16? I also researched that the SB16 has several mpu-401 bugs in games vs the Sound Card ES1868F.

Maybe there is a better alternative to a second sound card? I do not plan on running a 386 computer or even a 286 computer so I do not see the benefit of having a pure mpu-401 interface card unless there is alot of games not working on compatible mpu-401 sound cards i.e. awe64 or Sound Card ES1868F .

I have yet to find a full list of games for intelligent mode vs mpu-401

also I could not get Ultima 6 or F-117A to work and would assume i need to use a sound card with MPU-401 support since we all know the SBpro 2.0 does not support it.

Thanks for your writeup Pierre32!

About the cards:

- there's nothing technically superior about the SBPro2. It is old and simple. It's great advantage is purely that it is the card a lot of games designed for, so absolutely minimal chance of compatibility issues. No MPU-401. Does have real OPL3. Non-PnP
- AWE64 has vastly more functionality, including MPU-401, but adds bugs too (MIDI slowdown), isn't 100% SBPro2 compatible (mixed up stereo in some games) and doesn't have real OPL3 (and it's emulation of it, called CQM, is not considered good). Better for newer games, less so for MT-32 era stuff. PnP.
- ESS1868 is a very good SBPro2 clone with added MPU-401 and WSS (16b sound). No OPL3 but it's emulation (ESFM) is considered good. Also no bugs. PnP.

are you saying all 16bit cards do not have a real OPL3 chip like the SBpro 2.0? Everything is emulated basically. The only way around having real opl 3 , keeping the sbpro would be to buy a hard mpu card?

Reply 26 of 60, by darry

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Many 16-bit cards have authentic OPL3 chips . No AWE64 has one, but several models of AWE32 and SB16 cards do (not all of them, some have CQM, you need to check on a card by card basis as some model numbers can have either CQM or OPL3) . Opti based cards up to and including the 82c930 often have real OPL3 chips (some have very similar sounding, possibly identical clones) . Aztech sound cards nearly always have a real OPL3 as well (some have very similar sounding, possibly identical clones) .

These are just a few examples.

Reply 27 of 60, by dionb

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-31, 14:59:

[...]

are you saying all 16bit cards do not have a real OPL3 chip like the SBpro 2.0? Everything is emulated basically. The only way around having real opl 3 , keeping the sbpro would be to buy a hard mpu card?

No, I'm saying those particular cards have those specs. There are many 16b cards with real OPL3, just not the two you have.

Also "16b" can mean many things. don't let that confuse you:
- 16b ISA bus ('long' 2-part connector) doesn't say anything about audio bit rate. It is however required for high DMA (needed for SB16)
- there are 2 main 16b digital audio standards under DOS, SB16 and WSS. SB16 is more common in software, WSS has slightly higher specs, but in practice almost nothing comes close to max of SB16, let alone WSS. There are other 16b audio standards too, but they are rare and/or poorly supported.

There are both SB16 cards with OPL3 (unfortunately all Creative ones with hanging note MIDI bugs) and WSS cards with OPL3. There are also WSS cards with OPL3 - your Aztech card is one of them. However that card doesn't (fully) support Sound Blaster Pro 2 digital audio. There many cards with SBPro2 support, OPL3, WSS, and bug-free MIDI (such as 3rd and 4th generation Aztech cards, Yamaha YMF7xx, etc), and there are even some cards out there with SBPro2, SB16, OPL3, WSS and bug-free MIDI (anything with ALS100 (non-plus) chip).

Reply 28 of 60, by Jo22

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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:09:

- there are 2 main 16b digital audio standards under DOS, SB16 and WSS. SB16 is more common in software, WSS has slightly higher specs, but in practice almost nothing comes close to max of SB16, let alone WSS. There are other 16b audio standards too, but they are rare and/or poorly supported.

Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s.
It was for a short moment only perhaps, but the PAS16 was the SB16's biggest competitor. 😁
If you have a look into early 90s games (Knights of Xentar, Cobra City etc.), you'll notice that the PAS series pioneered in OPL3 support actually.
For those games, OPL3 is reserved for PAS cards only in the settings menu (works with any OPL3 card, of course. But still).

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 29 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:19:
Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s. It was […]
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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:09:

- there are 2 main 16b digital audio standards under DOS, SB16 and WSS. SB16 is more common in software, WSS has slightly higher specs, but in practice almost nothing comes close to max of SB16, let alone WSS. There are other 16b audio standards too, but they are rare and/or poorly supported.

Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s.
It was for a short moment only perhaps, but the PAS16 was the SB16's biggest competitor. 😁
If you have a look into early 90s games (Knights of Xentar, Cobra City etc.), you'll notice that the PAS series pioneered in OPL3 support actually.
For those games, OPL3 is reserved for PAS cards only in the settings menu (works with any OPL3 card, of course. But still).

I am 41 first computer was a 286 16 mhz back in 91 when I was 15 or 16. I just dont know all the details when it comes to midi and which card to use for proper mpu-401 ,I will just configure my awe 64 gold or awe 64 to use with the sbpro 2.0 until i find a pure midi interface or get one np

Reply 30 of 60, by dionb

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:19:
Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s. It was […]
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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:09:

- there are 2 main 16b digital audio standards under DOS, SB16 and WSS. SB16 is more common in software, WSS has slightly higher specs, but in practice almost nothing comes close to max of SB16, let alone WSS. There are other 16b audio standards too, but they are rare and/or poorly supported.

Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s.
It was for a short moment only perhaps, but the PAS16 was the SB16's biggest competitor. 😁
If you have a look into early 90s games (Knights of Xentar, Cobra City etc.), you'll notice that the PAS series pioneered in OPL3 support actually.
For those games, OPL3 is reserved for PAS cards only in the settings menu (works with any OPL3 card, of course. But still).

Too young? Thanks for the compliment, but sadly not - I had a GUS Max myself back then 😉

Fully aware of PAS16, including the fact that SB16 was a quick, dirty & inferior PAS16 clone slapped together in a few weeks (to the point of copying its MIDI hanging note bug...) - but given OP is a bit out of his depth already I chose to stick to the two de facto non-proprietary standards, even if there were better alternatives out there.

Reply 31 of 60, by Cloudschatze

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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 18:46:

Fully aware of PAS16, including the fact that SB16 was a quick, dirty & inferior PAS16 clone slapped together in a few weeks (to the point of copying its MIDI hanging note bug...)

Exactly! If we overlook the PAS16 and SB16 being released seven months apart, and that they're architecturally and programmatically dissimilar - despite both being 16-bit, OPL3-bearing cards with SB2.0 backwards-compatibility - and ignore the fact that the PAS16 family didn't even get MPU-401 UART compatibility until after the SB16 had entered the market, why, they're practically the same card!

Reply 32 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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Jo22 wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:19:
Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s. It was […]
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dionb wrote on 2020-10-31, 17:09:

- there are 2 main 16b digital audio standards under DOS, SB16 and WSS. SB16 is more common in software, WSS has slightly higher specs, but in practice almost nothing comes close to max of SB16, let alone WSS. There are other 16b audio standards too, but they are rare and/or poorly supported.

Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16.. There also was the PAS16. You may be too young to know that, but I lived in the 90s.
It was for a short moment only perhaps, but the PAS16 was the SB16's biggest competitor. 😁
If you have a look into early 90s games (Knights of Xentar, Cobra City etc.), you'll notice that the PAS series pioneered in OPL3 support actually.
For those games, OPL3 is reserved for PAS cards only in the settings menu (works with any OPL3 card, of course. But still).

sounds like I am better off just hooking up a AWE 64 second sound card with different irq settings and using my sbpro for my main card.

question did ultima 6 or f-117a just use mpu-401? because i do not get anything when softmpu is running.

Reply 33 of 60, by cyclone3d

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Pierre32 wrote on 2020-10-31, 00:10:
Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Ca […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-10-30, 19:47:

how is the sbpro 2.0 sound for old dos games and I see it has MPU401 full support.

Don't be misled here - most soundcards will list MPU401 but as a rule they will only support UART mode, not Intelligent Mode. Cards that support Intelligent Mode are:

  • An original Roland MPU interface card & breakout box (rare and expensive)
  • An original Music Quest PC MIDI card (as above)
  • A modern reproduction of the PC MIDI card (see Keropi's signature)
  • An Orpheus sound card with the PC MIDI option (see Keropi's signature)
  • A HardMPU card (another VOGONS project, you can occasionally find them assembled for sale on ebay - search item number 274550075882)

Of these, only the Orpheus is a fully integrated card that covers all sound & MIDI functions. Most are MIDI only cards that need to be installed alongside a sound card.

You will need to run SoftMPU with all of your existing sound cards, as well as with any SB / SB compatible card you can buy - with the exception of the Orpheus.

Also:
Roland LAPC-I (MT-32 in ISA format with MPU-401 integrated)
Roland SCC-1 and SCC-1A (SC-55 and SC-55 mkII with MPU-401 integrated)

There are also a few other other old MPU-401 intelligent mode cards:
Computer Music Supply CMS-401
Music Quest MQX-32M (has issues with some games)
Voyetra V-400x / OP-400x

Good luck finding any of those for a good price.

The other option is to use SOFTMPU with pretty much any UART mode MPU-401 interface.

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 35 of 60, by cyclone3d

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 05:30:

is ultima 6 and 7 mpu-401?

Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not.

See here for a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games

Yamaha YMF modified setupds and drivers
Yamaha XG resource repository - updated November 27, 2018
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
AW744L II - YMF744 - AOpen Cobra Sound Card - Install SB-Link Header
Epstein didn't kill himself

Reply 36 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-01, 06:07:
Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 05:30:

is ultima 6 and 7 mpu-401?

Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not.

See here for a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games

Thanks for the list i will study this

looks like softmpu does not support ultima 6 🙁 and will need to install my awe 64 to get f117 working, cool now i know what to look out for

Reply 37 of 60, by darry

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 08:13:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-01, 06:07:
Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not. […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 05:30:

is ultima 6 and 7 mpu-401?

Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not.

See here for a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games

Thanks for the list i will study this

looks like softmpu does not support ultima 6 🙁 and will need to install my awe 64 to get f117 working, cool now i know what to look out for

Ultima VI is on the list of working games for SoftMPU, so it should be compatible.
https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compati … gent-Mode-Games

A lot of older games are speed sensitive and will not run properly on faster machines (i.e. music does not work or other issues). Ultima VI is one such game . See https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … sensitive_games

If you are running on anything faster than 386, you will likely need to use something like SetMul or a slowdown utility .

Reply 38 of 60, by dionb

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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 08:13:

[...]

Thanks for the list i will study this

looks like softmpu does not support ultima 6 🙁 and will need to install my awe 64 to get f117 working, cool now i know what to look out for

Can definitely confirm Ultima6 works with SoftMPU. I spent a horrific percentage of my early teenage years playing U6 (with PC sound only) and it's nostalgic enough that it's one of the games I test any old hardware with, now with all the sound options.

If SoftMPU isn't helping you with U6, I suspect that it's not configured correctly, which means that either the addresses or IRQ are incorrect (or conflicting), or that you forgot the /OUTPUT:SBMIDI needed if you have a 'real' Sounblaster Pro withouth MPU-401.

Tbh, I'd recommend NOT adding a second card until you have the first one completely running properly. Two cards never simplify configuration, and a PnP card (like the AWE64) also risks confusing matters. Fix the SBPro2 first.

Reply 39 of 60, by Unrealcpu

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darry wrote on 2020-11-01, 10:49:
Ultima VI is on the list of working games for SoftMPU, so it should be compatible. https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compat […]
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Unrealcpu wrote on 2020-11-01, 08:13:
cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-01, 06:07:

Both support MT-32. Looks like 6 needs intelligent mode while 7 does not.

See here for a list:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_MT-32-c … _computer_games

Thanks for the list i will study this

looks like softmpu does not support ultima 6 🙁 and will need to install my awe 64 to get f117 working, cool now i know what to look out for

Ultima VI is on the list of working games for SoftMPU, so it should be compatible.
https://github.com/bjt42/softmpu/wiki/Compati … gent-Mode-Games

A lot of older games are speed sensitive and will not run properly on faster machines (i.e. music does not work or other issues). Ultima VI is one such game . See https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … sensitive_games

If you are running on anything faster than 386, you will likely need to use something like SetMul or a slowdown utility .

I disabled my my cpu and mo bo cache on my p233mhz machine and ultima 6 runs fine and is perfect IMO. I will try softmpu again but ultima 6 was not playing music , wing commander works great though. Is there a button on the mt-32 i am supposed to press? wing commander gets detected no problem

Last edited by Stiletto on 2020-11-02, 01:46. Edited 1 time in total.