Aublak wrote on 2020-12-04, 00:51:

So I'm trying to resurrect a MSI MS-4144 that I found. However it had no BIOS chip. I wasn't too concerned because I have a bra […]
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So I'm trying to resurrect a MSI MS-4144 that I found.
However it had no BIOS chip. I wasn't too concerned because I have a brand new TL866 II Plus and I found the BIOS online. I proceeded to find a used ISSI 27C010 that could probably use. Awesome.
I attempt to program it, but it fails. So I figure it must be bad and order a pair of brand new AM27C010s online. I attempt to program those, but still no dice.

Am I doing something wrong? I just got into programmers, so there's probably something I overlooked. It did partially program the chip, but there's still a lot of blank sections.

It is common for BIOS to have some blank areas, usually a large one between main BIOS code at top and BOOT code at bottom on older boards.
Did you try the ones at soggi.org: https://soggi.org/motherboards/msi.htm
and maybe the Award modded version feipoa posted here:
Re: MSI MS-4144 ver 2.1 manual and BIOS help

Horun wrote on 2020-12-04, 01:52:

It is common for BIOS to have some blank areas, usually a large one between main BIOS code at top and BOOT code at bottom on old […]
Show full quote

Aublak wrote on 2020-12-04, 00:51:

So I'm trying to resurrect a MSI MS-4144 that I found. However it had no BIOS chip. I wasn't too concerned because I have a bra […]
Show full quote

So I'm trying to resurrect a MSI MS-4144 that I found.
However it had no BIOS chip. I wasn't too concerned because I have a brand new TL866 II Plus and I found the BIOS online. I proceeded to find a used ISSI 27C010 that could probably use. Awesome.
I attempt to program it, but it fails. So I figure it must be bad and order a pair of brand new AM27C010s online. I attempt to program those, but still no dice.

Am I doing something wrong? I just got into programmers, so there's probably something I overlooked. It did partially program the chip, but there's still a lot of blank sections.

It is common for BIOS to have some blank areas, usually a large one between main BIOS code at top and BOOT code at bottom on older boards.
Did you try the ones at soggi.org: https://soggi.org/motherboards/msi.htm
and maybe the Award modded version feipoa posted here:
Re: MSI MS-4144 ver 2.1 manual and BIOS help

nah. I'm getting an error every time.

Did you erase the AMD chip with a UV eraser?

It was blank when I bought it.

I'm confused why that program calls the 27C010 a "EEPROM". It's not electrically erasable, it's just an EPROM (single e).
It also uses the phrase "Programming FLASH" which I think is inappropriate terminology for this kind of device. These details make me wonder if it's trying to treat it like some other device than what it is. But it does also say AM27C010 so maybe it does know what it's doing and these details are just cosmetic.

What do the blank areas look like?
An erased EPROM is filled with "FF". If it contains anything else then it's not blank.

The programmer sets bits from 1 to 0, it takes UV to set them back to 1 again.

If the erroneous bits are at 0 when they should be 1s then it's probably not the programmer's fault.
However if there are erroneous bits set to 1 that should be 0, then it could be an issue on the programming side.

if it is UV erasable eeprom make sure you erase it with UV light berfore programming
i am not familiar with your programmer but for old chips i use willem and it works great
make sure you programmer supports 12 VPP signal for programming. from picture i see its usb powered, but usb provides 5v only so... maybe check pin1 to have 12v when writing

Aublak wrote on 2020-12-04, 12:36:

It was blank when I bought it.

It was sold as new but who knows. I always erase every EPROMs before use because they often contain corrupted data.
I have a bunch of EPROMs that don't work properly with the 866, they are possibly dead or damaged.
Never had a problem with STs though.

shamino wrote on 2020-12-04, 12:58:

I'm confused why that program calls the 27C010 a "EEPROM". It's not electrically erasable, it's just an EPROM (single e).
It also uses the phrase "Programming FLASH" which I think is inappropriate terminology for this kind of device. These details make me wonder if it's trying to treat it like some other device than what it is. But it does also say AM27C010 so maybe it does know what it's doing and these details are just cosmetic.

This

Possibly an error in the device list

Some options:

Do a "blank check" on the EPROM (the "FF Blank" button between the "Read" and "Verify" buttons at the top) after you've erased it.

Make sure your BIOS image file is actually 128 KB in size.

Buy an equivalent EEPROM chip.

This is slightly off-topic, perhaps, but hackaday.com has published an article about the different ROM types.

https://hackaday.com/2020/12/03/game-cartridg … a-last-forever/

It's a bit too dramatic, perhaps, also.
Some ROMs keep information longer than others.

jesolo wrote on 2020-12-04, 15:45:

Some options: […]
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Some options:

Do a "blank check" on the EPROM (the "FF Blank" button between the "Read" and "Verify" buttons at the top) after you've erased it.

Make sure your BIOS image file is actually 128 KB in size.

Buy an equivalent EEPROM chip.

Image is indeed 128kb in size.
Program won't let me erase it. Button has been blanked out.

I do have an extra new AM27C010 chip (I bought them as a pair). I just don't want to ruin this one too if I did something wrong. Blank check gets me an error, but just reading it gets me all FFs with no error.

Aublak wrote on 2020-12-05, 03:59:

Image is indeed 128kb in size.
Program won't let me erase it. Button has been blanked out.

I do have an extra new AM27C010 chip (I bought them as a pair). I just don't want to ruin this one too if I did something wrong. Blank check gets me an error, but just reading it gets me all FFs with no error.

Because it is a UV eprom, it cannot be erased by a program, is not a EEPROM that can be erased by a flash program.
It takes a UV light to erase it ( or sitting under a 5000k LED lamp for a few hours with the window unkmasked )
just my opinion 😀

Horun wrote on 2020-12-05, 04:28:

Because it is a UV eprom, it cannot be erased by a program, is not a EEPROM that can be erased by a flash program. It takes a U […]
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Aublak wrote on 2020-12-05, 03:59:

Image is indeed 128kb in size.
Program won't let me erase it. Button has been blanked out.

I do have an extra new AM27C010 chip (I bought them as a pair). I just don't want to ruin this one too if I did something wrong. Blank check gets me an error, but just reading it gets me all FFs with no error.

Because it is a UV eprom, it cannot be erased by a program, is not a EEPROM that can be erased by a flash program.
It takes a UV light to erase it ( or sitting under a 5000k LED lamp for a few hours with the window unkmasked )
just my opinion 😀

Yeah. I believe that's the case.

I can order some Winbond W27C010s for a $1 a piece. May take a while to arrive though.

Aublak wrote on 2020-12-05, 03:59:

I do have an extra new AM27C010 chip (I bought them as a pair). I just don't want to ruin this one too if I did something wrong. Blank check gets me an error, but just reading it gets me all FFs with no error.

I don't think the blank check would have any other criteria except to check that it's all FF, so if it's giving an error there's probably a flipped bit in there somewhere.
Does the program have an option to do an inverse search (search for anything that's not "FF") ?
It's easy to miss if you're doing it by eye.

It sounds like these chips were incompletely erased and they have a few stray bits that didn't finish getting cleared.
I've had trouble with that before when sticker residue is left on the window, shielding parts of the chip from getting as much exposure as other parts. That's why I don't cover the windows on chips that I'm not going to keep in use for a very long time (sunlight isn't nearly as big a threat as people make it out to be).

I also have one EPROM with a genuinely stuck bit that can't be cleared with any reasonable amount of UV (I don't want to ruin the chip by overdoing it). That can happen sometimes too. In those cases, the chip is still usable as long as whatever you put on it needs that bit to be set. It will fail the blank check but once programmed it will pass. The stuff I put on that chip is 99% the same each time so I've never had a problem from that bit being stuck.

I haven't shopped for a UV eraser recently but there's probably a lot of them available on eBay at good prices. If you're going to use EPROMs very much at all then it's worth having one so you can reuse chips, and so you aren't dependent on a seller erasing and checking them before they ship. If you get an eraser make sure it has a timer though.
When you erase, experiment to figure out how long an exposure is necessary for your chips. Don't go overboard with the erase time or it can damage them.

shamino wrote on 2020-12-05, 17:21:

I don't think the blank check would have any other criteria except to check that it's all FF, so if it's giving an error there's […]
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Aublak wrote on 2020-12-05, 03:59:

I do have an extra new AM27C010 chip (I bought them as a pair). I just don't want to ruin this one too if I did something wrong. Blank check gets me an error, but just reading it gets me all FFs with no error.

I don't think the blank check would have any other criteria except to check that it's all FF, so if it's giving an error there's probably a flipped bit in there somewhere.
Does the program have an option to do an inverse search (search for anything that's not "FF") ?
It's easy to miss if you're doing it by eye.

It sounds like these chips were incompletely erased and they have a few stray bits that didn't finish getting cleared.
I've had trouble with that before when sticker residue is left on the window, shielding parts of the chip from getting as much exposure as other parts. That's why I don't cover the windows on chips that I'm not going to keep in use for a very long time (sunlight isn't nearly as big a threat as people make it out to be).

I also have one EPROM with a genuinely stuck bit that can't be cleared with any reasonable amount of UV (I don't want to ruin the chip by overdoing it). That can happen sometimes too. In those cases, the chip is still usable as long as whatever you put on it needs that bit to be set. It will fail the blank check but once programmed it will pass. The stuff I put on that chip is 99% the same each time so I've never had a problem from that bit being stuck.

I haven't shopped for a UV eraser recently but there's probably a lot of them available on eBay at good prices. If you're going to use EPROMs very much at all then it's worth having one so you can reuse chips, and so you aren't dependent on a seller erasing and checking them before they ship. If you get an eraser make sure it has a timer though.
When you erase, experiment to figure out how long an exposure is necessary for your chips. Don't go overboard with the erase time or it can damage them.

I have a UV light that I used to cure the liquid adhesive for the glass screen on my phone.

Maybe that might work.

ID Error = the programmer doesn't recognize the chip ID (two byte signature).

All UV-Eproms that I bought from China are re-marked or fakes. Got a batch of ST 27C010 that mostly work (one or two wouldn't program), but a quick rub with iso alcohol and all markings are gone.

Had better luck with EEPROMS (SST27SF010, W27C512, W27E257) - advertised as new but clearly used, they were at least genuine and all worked after erasing the random firmware present on them 😀

Maybe the eprom you are using isnt pin compatible with your motherboard. Some eprom brands using different pin lay-out.