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Downgrading XP to 98se

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Reply 20 of 38, by dr_st

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When installing Windows 9x, the boot files always go on the first primary partition - C:, but the Windows directory can be on any partition. When you install, you can specify any path for the Windows directory, provided the installer sees that path. Then Windows will create "Program Files" and "My Documents" on the same partition where the OS directory is, but it will put the boot files on C:.

Now, I am not sure whether the 98 installer will see a second primary partition, which is what the OP's image shows. The best way is to boot the installation media and check if C: and D: are both accessible from the DOS prompt.

The XP boot loader can manage a Win9x installation side-by-side without using third party tools. There is a way to set it up without wiping out the existing XP installation, and installing Win98 first. It's tricky but I've done it:
https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/win9xme-2kxp-dualboot/

Needless to say, the boot partition (C:) and the partition where 9x gets installed must be FAT32. Fortunately for OP, all the partitions are FAT32, so that's not an issue.

You may need access to an XP installation CD as well, but it looks you have one already.

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Reply 21 of 38, by omgfoz

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Is there a tool similar to snappy driver installer for 98se? Or am I going to have to go on a wild goose chase for my drivers? I have no oem cds for the hardware in this computer.

--Rob, Certified AMD Fanboy

Main: Ryzen 7 3700X / Asus Prime X570-p / 32GB DDR4-3600 / Radeon 5700XT / Win 10

Alt 1 (WIP): Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz / Asus A7V / 512MB SDRAM / ATI Radeon 9800 All in Wonder/ Win XP

Reply 22 of 38, by kolderman

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omgfoz wrote on 2020-12-26, 16:36:

Is there a tool similar to snappy driver installer for 98se? Or am I going to have to go on a wild goose chase for my drivers? I have no oem cds for the hardware in this computer.

You typically only need chipset drivers (there are a few main ones and are easy to find), and your gpu/sound drivers. All should be at vogonsdrivers. Bios updates on the other hand can be hard, try archive.org.

Reply 23 of 38, by omgfoz

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kolderman wrote on 2020-12-26, 18:34:
omgfoz wrote on 2020-12-26, 16:36:

Is there a tool similar to snappy driver installer for 98se? Or am I going to have to go on a wild goose chase for my drivers? I have no oem cds for the hardware in this computer.

You typically only need chipset drivers (there are a few main ones and are easy to find), and your gpu/sound drivers. All should be at vogonsdrivers. Bios updates on the other hand can be hard, try archive.org.

Thanks for the tip!

My next problem is none of my windows CDs will boot... any clue why? It is checking the CD drive but gives me an error

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--Rob, Certified AMD Fanboy

Main: Ryzen 7 3700X / Asus Prime X570-p / 32GB DDR4-3600 / Radeon 5700XT / Win 10

Alt 1 (WIP): Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz / Asus A7V / 512MB SDRAM / ATI Radeon 9800 All in Wonder/ Win XP

Reply 24 of 38, by kolderman

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omgfoz wrote on 2020-12-26, 19:56:
kolderman wrote on 2020-12-26, 18:34:
omgfoz wrote on 2020-12-26, 16:36:

Is there a tool similar to snappy driver installer for 98se? Or am I going to have to go on a wild goose chase for my drivers? I have no oem cds for the hardware in this computer.

You typically only need chipset drivers (there are a few main ones and are easy to find), and your gpu/sound drivers. All should be at vogonsdrivers. Bios updates on the other hand can be hard, try archive.org.

Thanks for the tip!

My next problem is none of my windows CDs will boot... any clue why? It is checking the CD drive but gives me an error

You are not booting from the cd. Change the boot order in BIOS.

Reply 25 of 38, by omgfoz

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I am trying, in fact I removed the HDD from the boot list which is how I arrived at this determination. Should I acquire a floppy to boot from instead?

--Rob, Certified AMD Fanboy

Main: Ryzen 7 3700X / Asus Prime X570-p / 32GB DDR4-3600 / Radeon 5700XT / Win 10

Alt 1 (WIP): Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz / Asus A7V / 512MB SDRAM / ATI Radeon 9800 All in Wonder/ Win XP

Reply 27 of 38, by kolderman

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omgfoz wrote on 2020-12-26, 20:19:

I am trying, in fact I removed the HDD from the boot list which is how I arrived at this determination. Should I acquire a floppy to boot from instead?

All my Win98 media is bootable. So it's definitely possible. But if you can make a floppy boot disk, why not give it a try.

Reply 28 of 38, by Repo Man11

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"Important: Only the OEM Full version is bootable. All others require an appropriate Windows 98 Boot Floppy."

https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-98/98-second-edition

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Reply 29 of 38, by omgfoz

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Repo Man11 wrote on 2020-12-27, 00:47:

"Important: Only the OEM Full version is bootable. All others require an appropriate Windows 98 Boot Floppy."

https://winworldpc.com/product/windows-98/98-second-edition

Well there we go. Now to find a 3.5 floppy...

--Rob, Certified AMD Fanboy

Main: Ryzen 7 3700X / Asus Prime X570-p / 32GB DDR4-3600 / Radeon 5700XT / Win 10

Alt 1 (WIP): Athlon Thunderbird 1ghz / Asus A7V / 512MB SDRAM / ATI Radeon 9800 All in Wonder/ Win XP

Reply 30 of 38, by Warlord

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You can make a eltorito style 98 cd with Nero 5 and 6 maybe other versions using the a floppy img as the boot sector. That is probably too complex here, but youre just going to rip the ISO to a folder using 7z. And make a CD boot in nero using 1.44 floppy emulation. You need the 98 floppy img, in like IMA or IMG format.

Probably easier for you to just find a floppy to each their own.

You could of also just hooked the hard drive up to another computer and formated it there and ran the sys command. So if it was the D drive. Format D: /SYS Then made a folder called 98 and just extracted the ISO into that folder. Put the drive back into the computer booted the the command prompt and CD 98 and then just run setup.

Looking for a floppy and burning a CD is actually pointless and the hard way.

Reply 31 of 38, by pete8475

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kolderman wrote on 2020-12-26, 07:45:

I would recommend against using a CF card for 98 - IMO the best disk option is a 120gb SSD.

Why?

I use 98 on several machines with 128GB Kingston CF cards and it runs very nicely.

Reply 32 of 38, by darry

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pete8475 wrote on 2020-12-27, 06:09:
kolderman wrote on 2020-12-26, 07:45:

I would recommend against using a CF card for 98 - IMO the best disk option is a 120gb SSD.

Why?

I use 98 on several machines with 128GB Kingston CF cards and it runs very nicely.

Write endurance of an SSD will likely be better and random and write performance will also likely be better . Additionally, filesystems on SSDs can be TRIMed, ones on CF cards cannot (at least I've never seen one that can).

That is not to say that using CF is not a valid option, just that SSDs have advantages .

Reply 33 of 38, by kolderman

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pete8475 wrote on 2020-12-27, 06:09:
kolderman wrote on 2020-12-26, 07:45:

I would recommend against using a CF card for 98 - IMO the best disk option is a 120gb SSD.

Why?

I use 98 on several machines with 128GB Kingston CF cards and it runs very nicely.

Firstly I believe a 128GB CF card probably costs a lot more than a typical 120GB SSD. Secondly, I have had a ton of issues running Win98 on both CF and SD cards...they are fine for DOS but I have always had rock-solid stability and performance on a SSD.

Reply 34 of 38, by Caluser2000

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Warlord wrote on 2020-12-27, 05:49:
You can make a eltorito style 98 cd with Nero 5 and 6 maybe other versions using the a floppy img as the boot sector. That is p […]
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You can make a eltorito style 98 cd with Nero 5 and 6 maybe other versions using the a floppy img as the boot sector. That is probably too complex here, but youre just going to rip the ISO to a folder using 7z. And make a CD boot in nero using 1.44 floppy emulation. You need the 98 floppy img, in like IMA or IMG format.

Probably easier for you to just find a floppy to each their own.

You could of also just hooked the hard drive up to another computer and formated it there and ran the sys command. So if it was the D drive. Format D: /SYS Then made a folder called 98 and just extracted the ISO into that folder. Put the drive back into the computer booted the the command prompt and CD 98 and then just run setup.

Looking for a floppy and burning a CD is actually pointless and the hard way.

Why is that? I have tons of each...

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Reply 35 of 38, by pete8475

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kolderman wrote on 2020-12-27, 06:39:

Firstly I believe a 128GB CF card probably costs a lot more than a typical 120GB SSD. Secondly, I have had a ton of issues running Win98 on both CF and SD cards...they are fine for DOS but I have always had rock-solid stability and performance on a SSD.

How much is a 120gb ssd these days? Last time I bought a 128gb CF card it was around $40 US.

Reply 36 of 38, by kolderman

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pete8475 wrote on 2020-12-27, 07:31:
kolderman wrote on 2020-12-27, 06:39:

Firstly I believe a 128GB CF card probably costs a lot more than a typical 120GB SSD. Secondly, I have had a ton of issues running Win98 on both CF and SD cards...they are fine for DOS but I have always had rock-solid stability and performance on a SSD.

How much is a 120gb ssd these days? Last time I bought a 128gb CF card it was around $40 US.

Should easily be less than $20USD. Even less if used.

Reply 37 of 38, by clueless1

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I think a fresh install onto a new HDD is the simplest option. You could always dual-boot from the BIOS if it supports this. I know many BIOSes back in the day had an option to select boot device at power-on. For me, this is simpler than resizing partitions, installing, then setting up a boot menu.

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Reply 38 of 38, by chinny22

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If you dont have and floppy disks you can either "find" a bootable OEM Win98 CD
or you can create a bootable cd with a iso from somewhere like here https://www.allbootdisks.com/download/iso.html

Re partitions, I'd just use the 60GB drive you have, should be enough space at least to start with, 9x games are small
Use fdisk to create a create a Primary Windows will go here, 20GB should be fine I think
Then create an extended partition with logical drive for XP, You can have XP setup convert this to NTFS or keep it as Fat32 if you want 98 to still have access

Any version of Windows can live happily on a extended drive, only reason you want 2 primary partitions is if using3rd party boot loaders

Re drivers, the fact it's OEM makes life easier as it'll use a standard set of hardware. tell us the make/model and should be really quick to find what drivers are needed.