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First post, by nathanieltolbert

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I think I have isolated the issue, but I am not certain on how to correct. I have a VLB PC that I have set up and it's running strange. It is the Biostar MB1433/50UCV-D Rev1.1 motherboard. I have installed a Diamond Stealth 64 DRAM VLB card, a DTK PTI-227W I/O card, a Sound Blaster Vibra 16S card with 8MB of 30-pin SIMM ram all of it at 70ns. The board has 256KB of Cache on it, and installed is a 486DX-33. All of this is put inside of a neat little Techmedia AT case. It's very strange. I run Speedsys 4.78 and the CPU scores a 7.3, which looks to be slower than the 386DX-40, in the Benchmark setup by Phil's Computer Lab doing the benchmark inside of System Information 8.0 it scores a cpu rating of 21.7, which is slower than the 386DX-33 which is 35.9 and way behind the expected score of 71.2 I hopped over to a 486DX2-66 machine to do some comparisons, and in Speedsys it scores an okay 24.7 and in System Information it scores a 126.8. I know those numbers are low too, but it's a packard bell, so I would say that's pretty darn good for it.

So the first discrepancy I have noticed was during the memory test in Speedsys. On the 486DX2-66 there is a drop at the 8K mark, then again at the 128K mark. Both of those are where my caches end, the 8k L1 and I have 128K of L2. On the 486DX-33 machine it's a straight line to 256K before it drops off. So, it appears to not see the 8K L1? Right? Okay, so I go into the bios and check. Internal and External Cache are both enabled. So for whatever reason, the 8K of cache is not being utilized, I think? Is there a jumper on the board to do this? What am I missing. This machine should be significantly faster than what I am seeing, but a setting either I made or the previous owner made is hindering it. If there is additional information needed, please let me know and I will collect it. Thank you for the help.

Reply 1 of 46, by Doornkaat

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Maybe this is a stupid question but could it be you're running the board in de-turbo mode?

Not all boards utilise the turbo switch the same way. Sometimes you need to connect the corresponding pins on the board, sometimes you need to separate them so switching turbo on sometimes makes the system run at its rated speed, sometimes it activates whatever slow down method the board uses to de-turbo.

Reply 4 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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PC-Boot Up speed is set to fast. And the case has no turbo switch, so nothing is connected. Do I need to bridge something to make it not run in the slower mode? The Techmedia case is pretty simplistic, it has a keylock, Power LED, HD LED, Reset and Speaker connectors.

Reply 6 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Cache Read State is 2-1-1-1 and the Write State is 1 W.S. RAM Write is 1 W.S. as well. AT speed is set to CPU/4, so 8.25MHz? The CPU jumpers are set to the 487 or 486DX setting, and the Speed is set to 33MHz, the VLB slots are set to CLK<=33MHz. When checking with the different programs they all identify the CPU as a 486DX-33. What more information can I provide to help?

Reply 8 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Okay Turbo pins have had a jumper applied. Speed of the system seems similar. However, when testing the speed with Speedsys we now report a speed of 12.4 and within System Information it's a 71.9, so that is better. However, When running Cachechk, we still aren't seeing the L1 cache that the CPU is supposed to have. So I'm still a little confused. Doing the memory test in Speedsys, and so far it's flat like before. So it appears the strangeness is two separate issues?

Reply 9 of 46, by Intel486dx33

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In bios make sure these are "ENABLED"
CPU cache
SDRAM Memory Cache

Also download Phils Benchmark test suite to make sure your computer is running optimal.
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/dos-benchmark-pack.html

Download on your PC and extract then burn to CD.
Copy to your 486 hard drive and run test.

Topbench - will tell you what speed you are running at.
Speedsys

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2021-01-17, 19:02. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 10 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Okay I ran the check cpu program in the benchmark pack and it doesn't identify the CPU as an Intel 486DX-33. It says a 'classic' 486 with no Vendor ID running at 33.5MHz and it says that the L1 cache is enabled and in Write Through mode. I don't know if that has anything to do with the L1 cache not showing up in the Cachechk program though or not exhibiting the 8K drop in memory performance in Speedsys.

Reply 11 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-17, 18:57:

In bios make sure these are "ENABLED"
CPU cache
SDRAM Memory Cache

Hmmm. I don't seem to have those as options. I am running on an AMIBIOS from 1993 and the only cache options I have are as follows -

External Cache Memory - Enabled
Internal Cache Memory - Enabled

Should I have an option for SDRAM Memory Cache? In regards to memory we have -
Memory Remap - Enabled
Test Memory Above 1MB - Enabled
Memory Parity Error Check - Disabled
VGA Shadow Memory 32K - Enabled
System Shadow Memory 64K-Enabled

Does any of that information help? I apologize for all of the questions. I haven't worked on a VLB computer system since I was 14? So 1994 or so? I am very rusty and this BIOS is so different than the ones I work with now. 😁

Reply 12 of 46, by Intel486dx33

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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2021-01-17, 19:05:
Hmmm. I don't seem to have those as options. I am running on an AMIBIOS from 1993 and the only cache options I have are as fol […]
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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-17, 18:57:

In bios make sure these are "ENABLED"
CPU cache
SDRAM Memory Cache

Hmmm. I don't seem to have those as options. I am running on an AMIBIOS from 1993 and the only cache options I have are as follows -

External Cache Memory - Enabled
Internal Cache Memory - Enabled

Should I have an option for SDRAM Memory Cache? In regards to memory we have -
Memory Remap - Enabled
Test Memory Above 1MB - Enabled
Memory Parity Error Check - Disabled
VGA Shadow Memory 32K - Enabled
System Shadow Memory 64K-Enabled

Does any of that information help? I apologize for all of the questions. I haven't worked on a VLB computer system since I was 14? So 1994 or so? I am very rusty and this BIOS is so different than the ones I work with now. 😁

Yeah, your bios settings appear to be set correctly.
So you must have the motherboard jumpers set incorrectly.

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2021-01-17, 19:40. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 13 of 46, by firage

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DX-33 is going to be working at the bus clock, whereas the DX2-66's cache is twice as fast. I don't think there's supposed to be as big of a drop between the L1 and L2 here. You're hitting the expected rating, so things are close to optimal.

My big-red-switch 486

Reply 14 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Oh, so because the DX-33 is not clock doubled, there is no 8KB drop because the cache is running at 33Mhz instead of 66. That makes sense, and I did not think of that. I don't have any other DX-33 CPUs in other systems that I can test against that, but once I think about it, that does make sense. Because on the 66MHz, to the 8KB mark on the memory test, it is indeed double the speed on the read to 128KB. It's just so strange that Cachechk doesn't identify that there is an L1 cache at all.

Reply 15 of 46, by nathanieltolbert

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-17, 19:15:

Yeah, your bios settings appear to be set sorrectly.
So you must have the motherboard jumpers set incorrectly.

I cannot find any jumpers on the board that indicate any sort of set up for the L1 cache. I have double checked and the CPU type is jumpered to 487/486DX . As far as I can tell from the information on the motherboard and the information I can find online regarding this Biostar Motherboard, is that the board is configured as closely as I can to this CPU. Now interestingly enough, there is a jumper setting for 486, 486SX, and 487SX/486DX. I'm not certain that I understand the difference really between 486 and 486DX. The original 486 that came out had an integrated math processor, didn't it? And the 486SX had the math coprocessor removed, and the DX had it back. So what is the difference between 486 and 486DX?

Reply 18 of 46, by Caluser2000

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-01-17, 19:42:
What does “topbench” benchmark tool report ? […]
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What does “topbench” benchmark tool report ?

The 486sx is for a 25mhz bus.
The 486dx is for 33mhz bus.

You want to use the 486dx setting.

NO they are not. Both SXs and DXs are capable of BOTH speed settings. One just has a FPU on chip enabled which DOESN'T effect the cpus bus speed.

I thought you were a IT tech back in the day.?

You can verify that with TOPBENCHs author Trixter over at vcfed.org if you can be bothered...

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-01-18, 23:45. Edited 2 times in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19 of 46, by debs3759

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nathanieltolbert wrote on 2021-01-17, 19:32:

So what is the difference between 486 and 486DX?

The only difference is the name.

See my graphics card database at www.gpuzoo.com
Constantly being worked on. Feel free to message me with any corrections or details of cards you would like me to research and add.