VOGONS


First post, by Retromonkey

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I'm building a machine to play games up to dx8 (Win98 and early XP games) based on a Pentium 4 and I think about getting an MX440.

However, I'm not sure which bus width it has.

Is this MX440 (images below) 64bit or 128bit? (sorry for the low quality, they are pictures of an ad)

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If it is 64bit, will I have a huge loss of performance compared to the 128bit variant? In this case, would it be better to get a 128bit FX5500?

Reply 1 of 13, by Horun

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Cannot tell by your pictures. Some MX440 used a NV17 with 128bit memory but not all. Think the GF FX5500 would be a better match to a P4

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 2 of 13, by mwdmeyer

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Normally 128bit has 8 memory chips. I would suggest that card is 64bit.

If it is 64bit then you get half the memory bandwidth. Also remember to check if it is DDR or SDR. DDR 64bit is roughly similar to 128bit SDR (although I believe 128bit SDR is a touch faster).

Finally memory speed is also important. There are a bunch of new stock FX5500 cards around that have 128bit memory BUT only run at 133MHz, so bandwidth is still limited.

New GPUs also often have memory compression which can improve performance compared to older GPUs. E.g Geforce 6200 seems to be more efficient than FX5500.

Where possible I try to avoid 64bit but I have a Geforce 6200 64bit in my P3 and it works great. It just depends on what your expectations are. The higher the resolution, colour and AA the more memory bandwidth you need.

A real MX440 should have the full 128bit where possible.

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Reply 3 of 13, by RandomStranger

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If the images weren't so blurry than with the full product name / code maybe the card still can be found on the manufacturer's site and maybe the specs table is still up.
Or maybe you can find it HERE

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 4 of 13, by Retromonkey

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Horun wrote on 2021-01-22, 01:48:

Cannot tell by your pictures. Some MX440 used a NV17 with 128bit memory but not all. Think the GF FX5500 would be a better match to a P4

As mwdmeyer said, this is very likely to be 64bit. I suspected because of the number of chips on the board and the fact that it has no brand (generic).

Reply 5 of 13, by Retromonkey

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mwdmeyer wrote on 2021-01-22, 01:49:

Normally 128bit has 8 memory chips. I would suggest that card is 64bit.

If it is 64bit then you get half the memory bandwidth. Also remember to check if it is DDR or SDR. DDR 64bit is roughly similar to 128bit SDR (although I believe 128bit SDR is a touch faster).

Exactly. Because of that I suspected it was 64 bits. The fact that it is generic (without brand) doesn't help much either.

mwdmeyer wrote on 2021-01-22, 01:49:

New GPUs also often have memory compression which can improve performance compared to older GPUs. E.g Geforce 6200 seems to be more efficient than FX5500.

I would get a 6200, but I suspect it isn't compatible with win98. At least I heard about some compatibility issues. So I think I'm limited to FX cards or older. But in that case, an FX 5500 128bit would be better than an MX440 64bit, wouldn't it?

Thanks for the explanation!

Reply 6 of 13, by Retromonkey

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RandomStranger wrote on 2021-01-22, 09:02:

If the images weren't so blurry than with the full product name / code maybe the card still can be found on the manufacturer's site and maybe the specs table is still up.
Or maybe you can find it HERE

Sorry for the low quality!

I actually found something about it. The product code is bcva-10254.

But, the only quote I found was on a Turkish website. The "brand" is Digi.

https://www.letgo.com/tr-tr/i/nvidia-geforce- … 10-2da4cbb3dfc7

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Reply 8 of 13, by RandomStranger

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It's probably a 64bit OEM version. I found an ebay listing where on the images it's shown while tuned on.
And some Korean site with a couple of high resolution images where some branding is showing.
Maybe you can contact the ebay seller with the question.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 9 of 13, by frudi

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RandomStranger wrote on 2021-01-22, 12:39:

And some Korean site with a couple of high resolution images where some branding is showing.

You can make out the markings on the memory chips in some of those images. The datasheet for those chips shows they're 16-bit, so with 4 of them on the card it is indeed 64-bit.

Reply 10 of 13, by bakemono

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If you want to play DirectX8 games then you might better steer clear of GeForce 4 MX anyway because it doesn't support DX8 shaders.

again another retro game on itch: https://90soft90.itch.io/shmup-salad

Reply 11 of 13, by darry

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bakemono wrote on 2021-01-23, 18:04:

If you want to play DirectX8 games then you might better steer clear of GeForce 4 MX anyway because it doesn't support DX8 shaders.

That is a very good point and a very good reason for choosing either a Geforce 3, a Geforce 4 TI 4200 or a Geforce FX family card if the goal is DirectX 8 support .
The Geforce 4 MX series is more like a souped-up Geforce 2 than anything else .

Reply 12 of 13, by Socket3

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Cards with 4 ram chips are 64 bit most of the time and cards with 8 chips are 128bit... but it heavily depends on the type of ram chip the card is using. If i'm not mistaking, cards with BGA ram chips (small square ones) only need four chips for a 128bit memory bus. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Reply 13 of 13, by frudi

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There's also QFP ram chips (like on this card) which also typically come as 4 chips per 128-bit bus. That's because BGA and QFP packages have enough room for 32 data pins. On the other hand TSOP ram chips, like on the card in OP, can only fit 16 data pins, that's why twice as many chips are needed.