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First post, by WJG6260

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Hello everyone,

I've been tinkering more and more with 386-based systems lately, and have run across something that I'm a bit perplexed about. From my understanding, the 386DX is fully 32-bit, and that the 386SX is a hybrid 16/32-bit setup, with an external 16-bit data path.

That being said, I've lately amassed a small number of co-processors for testing. I've got the following:

ULSI DX/DLC-40 in CPGA68
IIT 4C87DLC-40 in PGA68 on a factory PLCC-PGA converter
IIT 3c87-40 in the same package as its sibling
Cyrix Fasmath Cx83D87-40 on a factory QFP-PGA converter
Green Math 4C87DX-40 in a PLCC-PGA converter
Intel i387SX 16-25 PLCC
ULSI Math Co SX-33 in PLCC (currently in use)

A photo is attached for reference.

Here's the thing: I've got two 386 motherboards, and one on the way, and I wanted to run by some others with more experience a few questions as to the compatibility of these FPUs with CPUs.

First, I have an Alaris Cougar LX, with an IBM 486SLC2/50. From what I understand, functionally this chip is pretty much an i386SX in terms of it being both pin-compatible and sharing the i386SX's 16/32-bit hybrid bus setup. Does that then mean, then, that the only compatible FPUs would be the i387SX and ULSI Math Co (the Math Co is what's currently installed)? Or is it possible to use a DX-class FPU for an SX-based machine? I'd be interested in such a configuration in order to test out the Green Math coprocessor with this system, if capable.

I've also included a photo of the relevant motherboard. (Also, just a random digression, but I removed the Varta barrel battery. I've never before had a board with such a battery--at least not in recent years--and holy cow are they AWFUL. I always try to avoid them, but this board came by at an excellent price and I've wanted a weird IBM thing for a while, so this satisfied my weird IBM cravings...for now. This one didn't leak too bad, thankfully. But I must say, wow--these things are far WORSE than I remembered and imagined).

Similarly, is the inverse possible? Do SX FPUs support any fully 32-bit CPUs? I'm less-so interested in this configuration, but figured I would ask anyway out of sheer interest.

Thanks again in advance!

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Reply 1 of 4, by Grzyb

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WJG6260 wrote on 2021-02-13, 18:19:

386SX is a hybrid 16/32-bit setup, with an external 16-bit data path

Yes.
And the FPU is external, therefore 16-bit, ie. 387SX.

The opposite case, however, is complicated...
Yes, 386DX = 32-bit external bus, therefore 32-bit 387DX, but...
387DX was released later than 386DX, so early 386DX boards provided support for 287 FPU, ie. 16-bit.
I've never seen a 386DX board with support for 387SX, but I think it would be possible - 286 and 386SX buses are very similar...

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 2 of 4, by WJG6260

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Grzyb wrote on 2021-02-13, 19:01:
The opposite case, however, is complicated... Yes, 386DX = 32-bit external bus, therefore 32-bit 387DX, but... 387DX was release […]
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WJG6260 wrote on 2021-02-13, 18:19:

386SX is a hybrid 16/32-bit setup, with an external 16-bit data path

The opposite case, however, is complicated...
Yes, 386DX = 32-bit external bus, therefore 32-bit 387DX, but...
387DX was released later than 386DX, so early 386DX boards provided support for 287 FPU, ie. 16-bit.
I've never seen a 386DX board with support for 387SX, but I think it would be possible - 286 and 386SX buses are very similar...

My apologies for not responding sooner, but thank you for entertaining my thoughts, confirming my suspicions, and providing some wonderful assistance!

I am interested in seeing whether or not it could work, and I do wonder because, as you said, the 286 and 386SX buses are close in implementation. Do you think that there's perhaps any barrier to a 387SX and 386DX working together, given that it's likely possible? I only ask because, even though I presume performance would not be comparable to a 386DX and proper 387DX, it might still be a configuration worth tinkering with out of sheer curiosity, if nothing else.

Thanks again for your time and for your help!

-Live Long and Prosper-

Feel free to check out my YouTube and Twitter!

Reply 3 of 4, by Grzyb

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If you're so interested, try to find one of those early 386DX boards with both 287 and 387DX sockets, and investigate on what's located between them - some multiplexer circuitry, perhaps?
That should give you some ideas on what would be necessary to run the SX FPU there...

Żywotwór planetarny, jego gnijące błoto, jest świtem egzystencji, fazą wstępną, i wyłoni się z krwawych ciastomózgowych miedź miłująca...

Reply 4 of 4, by WJG6260

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You know what? That’s a brilliant idea! I think I’ll do just that. I am genuinely curious to see, and I’m always down to learn something new!

-Live Long and Prosper-

Feel free to check out my YouTube and Twitter!