As far as I know, Rage LT and Rage LT Pro are not the same chip. The Rage LT should be the low power version of the Rage II, and the Rage LT Pro should be the low power version of the Rage Pro. Pretty sure both were made for laptops.
I remember trying to get information on this several years back and didn't come up with much. ATi product lines are such a mess.
There may be other differences between these things and their desktop counterparts. Perhaps the core and RAM run at different speeds. The bigger question is what was the need to put a laptop graphics chip on a desktop card?

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-04-09, 01:15:

The bigger question is what was the need to put a laptop graphics chip on a desktop card?

Yes, this is, what I've found with mysterious S3 Virge MX version. Anyway, according benchmarks, MX version is second best, after GX and GX2, but it is usually almost same fast. Maybe it draw less power, but anyway, those graphic cards had really low power consumption, so this was not the reason, why they made it.
Another reason can be, they had more chips, that could put into notebooks, because, it didn't go very well with these chips. Both Virge and Rage series had quite bad reputation, and were obsolete very fast. So maybe they started putting them on desktop boards too. But it's only my guess.
It's like this... they already knew, they are usuable only as low-end. But maybe, the chips were running on less voltage, and more cool. They knew, their supplies will be not used on notebooks, and many chips actually remains them. So they started to put them on desktop boards too.

W.x. wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:16:

Hello, what's the difference between this graphic (Ati Rage LT Pro) and Ati Rage Pro?

The regular Rage Pro doesn't have an on-die LVDS transmitter and a on-die TV encoder. The Rage LT Pro has both.

W.x. wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:16:

It is better or worse card?

Performance-wise, that'll depend on the board implementation itself. Feature-wise, it's slightly better as it has the capability to output to a FPD-Link (LVDS) monitor, S-Video/Composite video TV, and two VGA monitors simultaneously. I doubt the Rage Pro and the Rage Pro Turbo has the ability to do this without the help of a dedicated transmitter and encoder.

W.x. wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:16:

If I should get only one, for retro gaming, and it has to be Rage II, Rage Pro, or Rage LT, which one you would pick?

You are... getting confused here. The Rage LT is a Rage IIc with an on-die LVDS transmitter and a on-die TV encoder, just like the Rage LT Pro.

All three are mediocre options, and I'm quite surprised that you never thought of the Rage 128.

W.x. wrote on 2021-04-08, 23:16:

So, it's basicaly something like S3 Virge MX? Mobile chipset put on the regular destop board?

The intent is similar, yes.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-04-09, 01:15:

The bigger question is what was the need to put a laptop graphics chip on a desktop card?

Additional features, that's the reason why some Rage LT Pro AGP or PCI cards had a VESA DFP port (if it has an on-board Sil140ACT64 TMDS transmitter) and/or an S-Video or Composite video-out port. It also reduces manufacturing costs, since the board manufacturers don't need to purchase a more complex dedicated transmitter and encoder chip to use a regular Rage Pro for the same purpose.

Anonymous Coward wrote on 2021-04-09, 01:15:

As far as I know, Rage LT and Rage LT Pro are not the same chip. The Rage LT should be the low power version of the Rage II, and the Rage LT Pro should be the low power version of the Rage Pro. Pretty sure both were made for laptops.
I remember trying to get information on this several years back and didn't come up with much. ATi product lines are such a mess.
There may be other differences between these things and their desktop counterparts. Perhaps the core and RAM run at different speeds. The bigger question is what was the need to put a laptop graphics chip on a desktop card?

Somewhere I have a AGP1x/2x card with a Rage Mobility chip, 8MB.
IIRC I bought it to use as a basic display adapter in the second PC that I ever built.
It was a Athlon 1000 Socket 462 for my grandmother.
A ECS motherboard, and the only time that I've ever personally killed a DIMM module with ESD.

Solplay wrote on 2021-12-22, 18:40:

Hello Solplay, many thanks for your reply. I've found out most of information , and forgot about this old thread. It was in times, I didn't know much about ati cards.

First thing, I found out from that time - I was wrong, it is not mentioned in wikipedia. It is. I didn't know in that time, that mobile chips are separated more on botton in separate cathegory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_gra … its#Mobile_GPUs

Here we will find both Rage LT and Rage LT Pro, even with mention of original chips design. (Rage II and Rage pro) I would immidiately know, what's going on, if I would find this table, but unfortunately, I was searching only in first table (for desktop cards)

Second, i know about Rage 128 GL/pro. I know, it is quite good card, many time underestimated. But I wanted it for historical PC (bought in late 1997, or early 1998), so this is why I was considering only Rage II and Rage pro series.

For rest of information and answers, many thanks!

The ATI RagePro LT is a good early 3D-gfx chip.

It has support for:
- D3D
- OGL
- ATI3CIF

Has Native drivers for Win3x!
Has good 2D Hardware-Excelleration and therefore smooth scrolling in Jazz2.

Is directly supported in some games:
- Resident Evil2
- ...

Lacks:
- Table Fog
- 8Bit pal-textures

Doc

I woul use ATi Rage XL for AGP and if PCI is needed, then ATi Rage Pro / Pro Turbo / LT Pro with PCI. They all support Direct3D, OpenGL, 3DCiF.
ATi Rage XL AGP is improved version of Rage Pro, they are all Rage3 based cards. ATi Rage XC and Rage XL PCI ones (also Rage3 cards) do not
work with 3DCiF at the moment, driver issues, Direct3D and OpenGL works for all.

Win9x driver, Direct3D - OpenGL - 3DCiF:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … ge-MarxVeix?w=1

Win9x ATi Rage3 OpenGL files:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/OGL_RagePro?w=1

ATi Rage XL information:
http://old.vgamuseum.info/images/stories/doc/ … tions_dec03.pdf

I put notes about Rage chips here: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/ATI#ATi_Rage_series

Let me know if I should add anything.

Rage XL
A die shrink of the Rage Pro that runs with lower power consumption, higher frequencies and has image quality fixes. As of 2021, new cards are being sold with this chipset, however cards manufactured after 1999 frequently have compatibility issues with Socket 3 & Socket 4 PCI chipsets.

Obviously the messed/patched drivers do not fix all/several issues on my machine...so I will go for the original drivers and test them against my software.

4MB Onboard Rage LT Pro Win95b DX6 / P3-500

- Jazz2 => Scrolling smooth in Hardwaremode (640x400 70hz)
- DoomGL/Hexen/Hewretic => OpenGL working, floor-texture bug ?
- AtiCIF SDK Knight Demo => does it run
- ResidentEvil2 => Background textures OK or broken
- DungeonKeeper1 => D3D mode OK
- Motorrace1 => textureflickering. smoke white or black
- ...

82440en => no OGL in DOOMGL (copying ATIQUAKE-Files for Q2 does lead into a whitescreen, so no fixing here)
82474en => OGL broken in DOOMGL (floor-textures-missing) but OK in Quake

Don't know if DX6 is very different than DX6.1 in the results. I am not sure if I have to use DX6 to avoid glitches.

...more testing...

made a big mistake..installed bottom-up and after that top down...without uninstalling.
now I made a clean install and now it's clear that rage pro lt did not get a working opengl up til 2611 drivers.
below that I never get a working opengl. so what's the preference...to me is working ddraw, d3d and aticif, so opengl is optinal for me. perhaps ATI made some minigl standalone drivers...I have to check, so I went back to 2474 with DX5 now testing again. DX6 stuff will be tested later...

and another one...even 82474 has opengl driver for rage pro, but doomgl does not like it.

It was common with Ati, S3 and Matrox, their drivers were mess in early stages. G200 was released in first stage without OpenGL driver support, they used wrapper (in Direct3D mode). Performance was terrible, also lots of problems. They stated, they will make OpenGL driver after some time after release of card. Maybe Ati did something similiar? Rage Pro was released early 1997. The last Rage Pro drivers was moded for "turbo version". It added performance only in picked benchmarks. So, "latest", doesn't have to mean best, particulary with Rage Pro series.

several tests later... I have encountered issues in some D3D games with 25xx so I switched back to 2474 and I copy the 25xx ATI-Opengl-Driver in DoomGL directory so it works. Best of both worlds. I highly recommend 2474 on Rage Pro LT.

marxveix wrote on 2022-02-27, 20:12:

I woul use ATi Rage XL for AGP and if PCI is needed, then ATi Rage Pro / Pro Turbo / LT Pro with PCI. They all support Direct3 […]
Show full quote

I woul use ATi Rage XL for AGP and if PCI is needed, then ATi Rage Pro / Pro Turbo / LT Pro with PCI. They all support Direct3D, OpenGL, 3DCiF.
ATi Rage XL AGP is improved version of Rage Pro, they are all Rage3 based cards. ATi Rage XC and Rage XL PCI ones (also Rage3 cards) do not
work with 3DCiF at the moment, driver issues, Direct3D and OpenGL works for all.

Win9x driver, Direct3D - OpenGL - 3DCiF:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … ge-MarxVeix?w=1

Win9x ATi Rage3 OpenGL files:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/OGL_RagePro?w=1

ATi Rage XL information:
http://old.vgamuseum.info/images/stories/doc/ … tions_dec03.pdf

I just tried this driver on my Compaq Armada 1750 laptop (4MB AGP 2x Rage LT, Pentium 2 333, 64MB ram) - and I'm glad to report that it works flawlessly - both OpenGL and Direct3D. Performance is... well.. let's just say the 4MB Rage LT is slower then the on-board Trident Blade3D found in VIA MVP4 super socket 7 motherboards and some VIA Apollo socket 370 budget boards. But it works!!!

Quick note - this driver expects a newer version of directX - as soon as I rebooted I was greeted with a DLL error and explorer crash. Clicked OK and it went away, but it took the ATi tray utility with it. As soon as I installed DirectX 8.1 the error disappeared and the ATi tray tool loads correctly.

Quake 2 is extremly playable at 320x240 in openGL mode, my setup gets around 41FPS in demo1.dm2. It also looks amazing to me (I know, 320x240, but it's does some blending magic that makes the game look like it's running on a PS1 but with texture filtering). Seriously, it looks really nice on the compaq's 800x400 LCD and looks even better on a 15" CRT. Like a retro filter but good. Quake 2 is also playable at 512x400, scoring 32FPS, and somewhat playable at 640x480 where it scores 29 fps. Not bad for a card that supposedly does not support OpenGL!

Homeworld is also playable, at least the first mission, but performs better when using Direct 3D. This is no fault of the driver tough, but most likely a VRAM limit, as the game really wants 8MB of video memory.

I don't know who put this driver together, but THANK YOU!!!

Socket3 wrote on 2023-07-21, 16:44:

I just tried this driver on my Compaq Armada 1750 laptop (4MB AGP 2x Rage LT, Pentium 2 333, 64MB ram) - and I'm glad to report […]
Show full quote

marxveix wrote on 2022-02-27, 20:12:

I woul use ATi Rage XL for AGP and if PCI is needed, then ATi Rage Pro / Pro Turbo / LT Pro with PCI. They all support Direct3 […]
Show full quote

I woul use ATi Rage XL for AGP and if PCI is needed, then ATi Rage Pro / Pro Turbo / LT Pro with PCI. They all support Direct3D, OpenGL, 3DCiF.
ATi Rage XL AGP is improved version of Rage Pro, they are all Rage3 based cards. ATi Rage XC and Rage XL PCI ones (also Rage3 cards) do not
work with 3DCiF at the moment, driver issues, Direct3D and OpenGL works for all.

Win9x driver, Direct3D - OpenGL - 3DCiF:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/Tweak … ge-MarxVeix?w=1

Win9x ATi Rage3 OpenGL files:
https://disk.yandex.ru/d/eV600jDAliJ_3w/OGL_RagePro?w=1

ATi Rage XL information:
http://old.vgamuseum.info/images/stories/doc/ … tions_dec03.pdf

I just tried this driver on my Compaq Armada 1750 laptop (4MB AGP 2x Rage LT, Pentium 2 333, 64MB ram) - and I'm glad to report that it works flawlessly - both OpenGL and Direct3D. Performance is... well.. let's just say the 4MB Rage LT is slower then the on-board Trident Blade3D found in VIA MVP4 super socket 7 motherboards and some VIA Apollo socket 370 budget boards. But it works!!!

Quick note - this driver expects a newer version of directX - as soon as I rebooted I was greeted with a DLL error and explorer crash. Clicked OK and it went away, but it took the ATi tray utility with it. As soon as I installed DirectX 8.1 the error disappeared and the ATi tray tool loads correctly.

Quake 2 is extremly playable at 320x240 in openGL mode, my setup gets around 41FPS in demo1.dm2. It also looks amazing to me (I know, 320x240, but it's does some blending magic that makes the game look like it's running on a PS1 but with texture filtering). Seriously, it looks really nice on the compaq's 800x400 LCD and looks even better on a 15" CRT. Like a retro filter but good. Quake 2 is also playable at 512x400, scoring 32FPS, and somewhat playable at 640x480 where it scores 29 fps. Not bad for a card that supposedly does not support OpenGL!

Homeworld is also playable, at least the first mission, but performs better when using Direct 3D. This is no fault of the driver tough, but most likely a VRAM limit, as the game really wants 8MB of video memory.

I don't know who put this driver together, but THANK YOU!!!

Hello Socet3,

If you are talking about marxveix drivers, then i did.
What 2528 driver are you using now from that link?

My results without any overlock or Quake1/2 tweaks. Made many extra runs + restarts do be sure.
AMD K6-2+ 400MHz - 256MB Ram - RageXL(RagePro) 8MB AGP - all @ default - OpenGL v 1088

GLQuake 0.98
timedemo demo1 640x480 44.8fps (bilinear + multitexture disabled)
timedemo demo1 640x480 33.2fps (bilinear + multitexture enabled)

Quake2 v3.20 (OpenGL)
timedemo 1 map demo1.dm2 640x480 33.1fps (bilinear + multitexture disabled)
timedemo 1 map demo1.dm2 640x480 30.9fps (bilinear + multitexture enabled)

More info about rage3 multitexture here and how to enable it:
Re: ATi RagePro OpenGL files

GLQuake easy fix for newer Rage3 OpenGL versions are here:
Re: ATi RagePro OpenGL files

Pentium 2 333 should be faster or at least similar with K6-2+400, but 4MB cards are slower than 8MB ones and AGP ones are faster than PCI ones for Rage3. I release soon similar, but newer driver for 2582/2598 that i tested this Quake1 and Quake2. With Quake2 tweaks i had even higer results for Rage3, than showed here.