VOGONS


First post, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hello. I would like to have one overall retro motherboard for Pentium 4 socket 478 CPUs, and I was thinking about choosing i865PE chipset, mainly because of "masked" PAT, dualchannel, Sata, integrated USB 2.0.

I was thinking, that it will support Prescott CPUs as well, so I was expecting it will for sure take also all previous one, including Willamette.

But then, I've come accross this review of motherboard DFI Infitinity 865PE, where is mentioned, you can set FSB only from 200 to 400 (not, it is meant basic clock, so it means actualy 4x more FSB, so from 800 to 1600) So does it mean, I cannot set FSB to 533 or 400?
https://hothardware.com/reviews/dfi-865pe-infinity?page=2
"Genie BIOS Setting screen is where users can adjust the Bus speed anywhere from 200MHz to 400MHz in 1MHz increments, although 400MHz seems rather unrealistic at this point."

I've remembered from long ago, on some other i865PE motherboard, that FSB range was from 100-300, so I was telling myself, it is ok, it will take 400, 533 and also 800 Mhz CPUs. But this seems, as it is not case on all motherboards with this chipset?
PS:
I've found the review of motherboard, that I've remembered it has 100-300 FSB. It was Abit IS7
https://hexus.net/tech/reviews/mainboard/572- … erboard/?page=5
"As it is, we have FSB manipulation from 100 - 300 FSB in 1MHz increments. We appreciate that you can manually key in whichever FSB you require. "

I wonder about downclocking mainly because, I want to take highest 800 Mhz FSB Pentium 4, and downclock it to 533 / 400 Mhz FSB version, so I don't have to have 3 CPUs for benchmarks, but only one.

Reply 1 of 20, by zyga64

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I think it depends on the specific implementation.
Asrock 775i65G (which I have) for example allows you to set FSB from 100 to 266MHz (x4 QUAD pumped BUS - so 400 to 1066), and multiplier from x6 to max supported for CPU (when SpeedStep is disabled in BIOS).
This is however socket 775 motherboard... (and 865G not PE but there is similar motherboard from Asrock on i865PE Conroe865PE).

Attachments

  • IMG_0856.JPG
    Filename
    IMG_0856.JPG
    File size
    90.61 KiB
    Views
    1114 views
    File license
    Public domain
  • IMG_0857.JPG
    Filename
    IMG_0857.JPG
    File size
    100.46 KiB
    Views
    1114 views
    File license
    Public domain
  • IMG_0855.jpg
    Filename
    IMG_0855.jpg
    File size
    94.27 KiB
    Views
    1114 views
    File license
    Public domain
  • IMG_0854.jpg
    Filename
    IMG_0854.jpg
    File size
    103.18 KiB
    Views
    1114 views
    File license
    Public domain
  • 600mhz.png
    Filename
    600mhz.png
    File size
    17.49 KiB
    Views
    1114 views
    File license
    Public domain

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
3) i430FX /K6-2@400 /64M /Rage Pro PCI /ES1370+YMF718
4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 2 of 20, by flupke11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

I checked the P4C800-E Deluxe on Asus' website, and that i875-based board should do all S478, from the slowest (1,4/256/400) to the fastest (P4EE). There's no reason why an i865 should not take a Willamete, but always best to check the documentation.

Reply 3 of 20, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

The Infinity quick guide says:
"Processor
• Intel® Pentium® 4 (Prescott and Northwood) processor up to 3.2GHz+
-Intel Hyper-Threading Technology
-FSB: 533MHz and 800MHz
• Intel® Celeron® processor
-400MHz system data bus"
So it must be able to do 400 thru 800 bus but no mention of Willamette (except that many s478 Celerons were Willamette). There are two versions: plain and Rev B.
here is the non official CPU suport list for plain: https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-DFI/INFINITY_865PE_.html
All Northwood and Prescott.
and the rev B: https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-DFI/INFINITY_8 … 5PE_rev._B.html
also all Northwood and Prescott including Prescott Celeron-D
Maybe they left out Sspec for older Willamettes due to quirks... just a guess.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 4 of 20, by PC Hoarder Patrol

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

The manuals (revs A, AB & B) only mention Northwood & laterrly (B) Prescott support - the similarly specced PS83-B Series (865PE + ICH5) even has a brief FAQ pointing out the lack of P4 Willamette support on that platform

https://web.archive.org/web/20050212164416/ht … FAQ/US/865E.htm

Reply 5 of 20, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

What's the point of forcily remove Willamette support, as it fits into socket, also to "ban" to go for 400 Mhz FSB? Anyway, northwood Celerons are 400 Mhz FSB, so basically, i865PE should handle 400 Mhz FSB, but maybe it doesn't allow to downclock to it, from higher processor. I saw many motherboards, that autodetects CPU , and allow only going upwards with FSB, which is kinda dissapointing for tweakers and people doing various benchmarks and comparsions. I have same problem with Gigabyte KT600 socket A motherboard. It handle 133 Mhz FSB Athlons, but it doesn't allow downclocking to it from 166 Mhz one (only 166-250 MHZ FSB option in BIOS with that CPU). Would probably need modified BIOS or something.

Reply 6 of 20, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Good search PC Hoarder Patrol !
found this partial CPU support for the Infinity 865PE rev A: https://web.archive.org/web/20081013132324/ht … ID=2000&SITE=US

W.x. wrote on 2021-04-25, 13:57:

What's the point of forcily remove Willamette support, as it fits into socket, also to "ban" to go for 400 Mhz FSB? Anyway, northwood Celerons are 400 Mhz FSB, so basically, i865PE should handle 400 Mhz FSB, but maybe it doesn't allow to downclock to it, from higher processor.

It is a ban on certain Sspec / cpuID from booting on the board, 400Mhz is not banned just Willamette core 400Mhz.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 8 of 20, by shamino

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Some low end Northwoods run at 100MHz (400MHz "internal" or whatever it is) so that's why the range still covers that speed.

I'm not sure if there are any motherboards that claim support for Willamette and Prescott. I remember them always making that exclusion on later P4 boards. I think there must have been some incompatibility introduced with Prescott.

I've never tried running a Willamette on a board with this rule so I have no idea how serious of a rule it is.

I think the 200-400 range must be meant to refer to the typical 400-800 (or actual 100-200 FSB) range, they just wrote it oddly.

Reply 9 of 20, by H3nrik V!

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Probably, the higher voltage of Willamette is not in range for VRMs supporting Northwood and Prescott?

Please use the "quote" option if asking questions to what I write - it will really up the chances of me noticing 😀

Reply 10 of 20, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Could be ! Just checked my Intel D865GLC (i865G based) archive and it too does not list any Willamette core P4 support either. Only Northwood and Prescott core, with the P4 1.60A GHz 400 MHz 512 KB L2 as the slowest supported cpu.
The slowest Celeron supported is the 2.0Ghz 400Mhz 128k which is a Northwood. All Willamette P4 were 256k L2, Northwood P4 were 512k and Prescott P4 went up to 2Mb ..

So my guess is that Intel limited the i865 chipsets like they did in i848 and were never designed for the Willamettes but the i845 were but they do not support any 800 Mhz or Prescott from what I found...
So if one wants to run an old 1.4Ghz 256k 400Mhz Willamette P4 look to a i845 or other chipset based board.

Fer Shits-n-grins: here is the cpu support pages for my D865GLC, a D848PM and D845GL boards:
i865: http://web.archive.org/web/20050407030747/htt … /lc/lc_proc.htm
i848: http://web.archive.org/web/20041030220448/htt … /mb/mb_proc.htm
i845: http://web.archive.org/web/20050401002613/htt … b/CS-008723.htm

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 11 of 20, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

That are bad news... that means, you cannot have one socket 478 retro board as universal Pentium 4 system, you need two. (to cover all processors ) . Seems best combo would be Sis 645dx chipset (for universal AGP slot on Pentium 4) and i865PE for most latest and maxed out s478 Pentium 4 builds. i845/E/PE seems least attractive, (I mean to have i865xx and i845xx as two boards)

Reply 12 of 20, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
W.x. wrote on 2021-04-25, 23:10:

That are bad news... that means, you cannot have one socket 478 retro board as universal Pentium 4 system, you need two. (to cover all processors ) . Seems best combo would be Sis 645dx chipset (for universal AGP slot on Pentium 4) and i865PE for most latest and maxed out s478 Pentium 4 builds. i845/E/PE seems least attractive, (I mean to have i865xx and i845xx as two boards)

It could be a board design issue more than a chipset issue where many OEM's built them to Intels Design criteria.
Looked at Gigabyte GA-8iPE1000-G specs (i865PE) and it does list a few P4 400Mhz willamettes as supported on their board but deep googling shows some having issues with anything other than Northwood or Prescott.
Yes maybe better to look for a SIS chip or Nvidia chip based board....

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 13 of 20, by PC Hoarder Patrol

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

^This...have a couple of 865 series boards with Willamette support - an 865G Asrock P4I65G and an 865PE Gigabyte 8IPE1000MK, but searches do tend to highlight some issues with that particular processor family

Reply 14 of 20, by flupke11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

https://www.asus.com/supportonly/P4C800-E%20D … e/HelpDesk_CPU/

I'll check whether running a Willamete on the P4C800 gives issues, but according to Asus' website, this board should be pretty universal.

Reply 15 of 20, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
flupke11 wrote on 2021-04-27, 09:16:

https://www.asus.com/supportonly/P4C800-E%20D … e/HelpDesk_CPU/

I'll check whether running a Willamete on the P4C800 gives issues, but according to Asus' website, this board should be pretty universal.

It's not i865PE.

Reply 16 of 20, by flupke11

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
W.x. wrote on 2021-04-27, 17:03:

It's not i865PE.

You're absolutely right. But the Asus P4P800 Deluxe is. The difference between i865 and i875 are very slim indeed. The P4P800 with the i865PE also supports Willamette according to its official support list.

Reply 17 of 20, by W.x.

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
flupke11 wrote on 2021-04-27, 20:12:
W.x. wrote on 2021-04-27, 17:03:

It's not i865PE.

You're absolutely right. But the Asus P4P800 Deluxe is. The difference between i865 and i875 are very slim indeed. The P4P800 with the i865PE also supports Willamette according to its official support list.

Thank you, I though or expected, that all boards would support Willamette, maybe because I've checked P4P800 support list once (very long ago tho). Now I remember, that I probably checked just this board and told myself, that probably all i865PE would support it too, cause it seems logical. But now I see, I was wrong, and only few boards are so good. Ok, seems Asus P4P800 is one of the candidates. What about Abit IS7 ?

Reply 19 of 20, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Have a GA-8iK1100 rev 2 board (875 chipset) with a 2.8Ghz P4 533 that the cpu list says supports Willamettes, runs very well but is very picky on memory.
https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-8IK11 … ort#support-cpu
I Do Not recommend one unless you have a lot of DDR266, 333 and 400 to try. (edit: jumbled the numbers 🤣)

Last edited by Horun on 2021-05-02, 01:32. Edited 1 time in total.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun