VOGONS


First post, by Optimus

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Some time ago I bought a motherboard (called Tomato Board) with an AMD 486 (AM5x86-P75) at 133mhz. Besides some strange initial problems (first boots it was running extremely slow and Norton SI would say something like 15 instead of the expected 288, but this somehow dissappeared after putting back the CPU (it was sticking a bit out) or playing with BIOS commands, or changing some dip switches and then putting them back as they were,. but now I don't know what was the original problem). Anyway,. that's not the problem but I mention it in case it's related. For unknown reason it ran extremely slow till it decided to run in it's normal speed.

But there is another problem that I haven't solved or understood. It has a memory module, a weird one I have not seen before (it seems like a tower of chips over chips). The memory runs at 70ns. When I want to swap it with another memory (I have various 60ns and 50ns), suddenly the BIOS cannot be found. That doesn't make sense. It's like it requires me to use that memory always! I can plug of course another module in the second slot, but it would be mean the speed would be 70ns. This is a problem if I want to overclock (like I did on the screenshot) or lower memory wait states. The board does work with 133mhz but on 160mhz it hangs even with the slowest memory settings.

But my main question is that. Why does the motherboard (or the BIOS) only works with that particular memory? Why I can't remove it and use my own RAM? I am stuck with this slower 70ns memory.
Below I have screenshots of the motherboard, the memory front and back, the good BIOS boot (when using this memory) and the bad boot screen (when removing this memory and using various other 60ns or 50ns modules)

tomato_board.jpg
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tomato_ram_front.jpg
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tomato_bios_gut.jpg
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p.s. The screenshot of course shows 160mhz (FSB 40mhz) after I played with jumpers. I originally used this at 133mhz (FSB 33mhz) and worked fine at 288 in SI, but I always had to use that memory. All I want is to be able to replace that memory with my own memories. Does this memory carry the BIOS somehow and is required to always be slotted? I doubt, that's weird.. maybe memory timings for 60ns on the board? (I don't have 70ns memories to try). I also try the parity settings in BIOS but nope.. (unless I tried them in the wrong way?)

Reply 1 of 7, by pentiumspeed

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Show your pictures of 50ns and 60ns memory modules please. I have feeling this is EDO modules not compatible with your motherboard. You can use FPM modules with 60ns or 50ns. I had bought 8 pieces of 60ns FPM 4MB modules and they work well and is needed for my compaq computer that needs 60ns FPM.

Second, memory are just that, memory and vanish when turned off. The motherboards requires firmware stored on one IC installed on your motherboard, not memory modules.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 3 of 7, by Optimus

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I think that could be. I hear of EDO, FPM, etc.. but all I know is that they are RAM that fits so it should be true. Are typical 486 memories EDO? They are SIMM with the same pins exactly, that's all I know. So, all I need to do is buy some SIMM with similar pins but they should be FPM. Also,. does motherboard not support EDO? I thought those were standard memory that work on any of my other 486 motherboards.

Reply 4 of 7, by pentiumspeed

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486 boards in general are FPM memory. Not EDO.

This is important to provide your photos of your not compatible memory modules so we can tell you what you actually have. This is not the motherboard issue.

One more thing, if IBM-made FPM memory modules with 9 chips, that also not compatible, IBM made with 12 chips are compatible, I'm referring to 72 pin type. I have to investigative that what reason why they happens.

Anything else we need your photos of these memory modules of yours.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 5 of 7, by Optimus

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Here,

jlS4DzIQ.jpeg
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but you are right, these modules might not work with the motherboard (I was confused and thought something about BIOS because of the conflicting message, even though I know BIOS is in the ROM and not the RAM,. but the real problem and the message should be invalid memory modules or something).

I read in the manual now "Support SIMM type: 1Mx36, 2Mx36, 4Mx36"
I thing this Mx36 designation is for this FPM memory? And Mx32 is the EDO.
Somehow I didn't know or forgot the 486 had the FPM first and then the other kind later (which are for Pentium but worked on another motherboard with slower 486)
Anyway,. I think that's the issue, just the message confused me, and didn't know it's the case. I thought if it fits it must work. I will buy some FPM from ebay or something.

Reply 6 of 7, by Cyberdyne

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x36 only mean, that you need PARITY memory, it mean 3 or 9 or 18 memory chips, not 2, 8, 16.

EDO will only work with some few newer UMC based motherboards. Maybe some more. For 486 only use EDO.

I am aroused about any X86 motherboard that has full functional ISA slot. I think i have problem. Not really into that original (Turbo) XT,286,386 and CGA/EGA stuff. So just a DOS nut.
PS. If I upload RAR, it is a 16-bit DOS RAR Version 2.50.

Reply 7 of 7, by bloodem

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Optimus wrote on 2021-06-03, 06:13:
Here, […]
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Here,

jlS4DzIQ.jpeg

but you are right, these modules might not work with the motherboard (I was confused and thought something about BIOS because of the conflicting message, even though I know BIOS is in the ROM and not the RAM,. but the real problem and the message should be invalid memory modules or something).

I read in the manual now "Support SIMM type: 1Mx36, 2Mx36, 4Mx36"
I thing this Mx36 designation is for this FPM memory? And Mx32 is the EDO.
Somehow I didn't know or forgot the 486 had the FPM first and then the other kind later (which are for Pentium but worked on another motherboard with slower 486)
Anyway,. I think that's the issue, just the message confused me, and didn't know it's the case. I thought if it fits it must work. I will buy some FPM from ebay or something.

That's an EDO RAM module. It won't work with your motherboard (and most 486 motherboards). Get FPM RAM and you'll be good to go.
I also have the same board and it behaves EXTREMELY weirdly with EDO. At first it seems like it works (and it can even try and boot sometimes), but it will never actually work properly.

1 x PLCC-68 / 2 x PGA132 / 5 x Skt 3 / 9 x Skt 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Skt 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Skt 370 / 8 x Skt A / 2 x Skt 478 / 2 x Skt 754 / 3 x Skt 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
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