VOGONS


EMM386 W/623k But Reboots

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First post, by Scythifuge

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Greetings,

I have been struggling with my startup files for my MS-DOS set up on a p3 Tabor 3 board with a Voodoo5 and 512mb of RAM. Usually I am pretty good with these things ending up with above 600k free. However, this board is giving me troubles. I managed to get it to 623k, which I would be ecstatic with. However, running any program from MS-DOS causes the system to reboot. Taking out I=xxxx-xxxx brings it down to 577k, and programs that support that amount, work. So I definitely narrowed it down to my EMM386 switches. I rebooted to a "safe mode command prompt only," and ran MSD.EXE. This is what I get:

Available:
DC00-----DFFF
D800-----DBFF
D400-----D7FF
D000-----D3FF
CC00-----CFFF
C800-----CBFF
-------------- (ROM and RAM between here)
B400-----B7FF
B000-----B3FF
AC00-----AFFF
A800-----ABFF
A400-----A7FF
A000-----A3FF

Everything else is either ROM or RAM. My EMM386 line that gets me 623k reads:

DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\EMM386.EXE 16484 RAM I=A000-B7FF I=CC00-CFFF I=B000-B7FF

I realized that B7FF was being used twice, but no matter what I try, I get 623k and reboots, 543-577k with programs supporting these amounts working, or EMM386 loading, but without expanded memory. The goal is as close to 640 as possible without using 3rd party drivers (unless I must,) except for UNISOUND, since I was having problems getting the CT3990 drivers to work under pure DOS. I don't mind using 3rd party apps to determine proper values for EMM386, however. Does anyone have any ideas, solutions, or tips? I'm itching to play some DOS games authentic hardware! My Win98 SD card is set up perfectly, and I have a 32GB SD card on the way for Windows 95 and Win95 era games and apps.

Thanks!
Scythifuge

Reply 1 of 41, by Scythifuge

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I am also trying to use UMBCHK which comes with UMBPCI, but no matter what it recommends using (and it changes,) I get no expanded memory. So far, just using I=B000-B7FF gives me 595k, and I think that almost everything will work with that. However, now I am on a crusade to get 600+ because I have been able to achieve this on every past retro build. I do think that the Tabor series of boards are weird and quirky, however. They cannot handle the HIGHSCAN option, at all.

Reply 2 of 41, by darry

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Posting your config.sys and autoexec.bat might be helpful . Personally, I have never needed to use more than I=B000-B7FF to get 620KB+ of free conventional memory, either with EMM386.exe or UMBPCI. You may well be loading more drivers than I am, however .

EDIT : Also, I have never had a Tabor (but have used other 440BX boards) .

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-07-06, 23:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 3 of 41, by Scythifuge

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darry wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:06:

Posting your config.sys and autoexec.bat might be helpful . Personally, I have never needed to use more than I=B000-B7FF to get 620KB+ of free conventional memory, either with EMM386.exe or UMBPCI. You may well be loading more drivers than I am, however .

EDIT : Also, I have never had a Tabor (but have used other 440BX boards) .

I'll post them. How do I post them with the line numbers like I see other people do?

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-07-06, 23:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 4 of 41, by Jorpho

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:09:

I'll post them. How do I post them with the line numbers like I see other people do?

Use the "code" tags, as in [code][/code].

(I'm not sure why you wouldn't post them to begin with..?)

Last edited by Jorpho on 2021-07-05, 01:13. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 5 of 41, by darry

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:09:
darry wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:06:

Posting your config.sys and autoexec.bat might be helpful . Personally, I have never needed to use more than I=B000-B7FF to get 620KB+ of free conventional memory, either with EMM386.exe or UMBPCI. You may well be loading more drivers than I am, however .

EDIT : Also, I have never had a Tabor (but have used other 440BX boards) .

I'll post them. How do I post them with the line numbers like I see other people do?

Use the code display quotes .
They are the 7th button from the left
Filename
quotes.png
File size
11.7 KiB
Downloads
No downloads
File license
Public domain
Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-07-06, 23:18. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 6 of 41, by Scythifuge

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Jorpho wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:11:
Use the "code" tags, as in […]
Show full quote
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:09:

I'll post them. How do I post them with the line numbers like I see other people do?

Use the "code" tags, as in

[code]

[/code]

Thank you!

Config.sys:

SWITCHES=/F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=H
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\EMM386.EXE 16834 I=B000-B7FF
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,11264 =C:\MSDOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:CD-RW /D:DVD-ROM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SHELL=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM /E:512 /P
SET PATH=C:\MSDOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\SB16;..;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP

Autoexec.bat:

SET COMSPEC=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
LH /L:0;1,41360 /S SMARTDRV
LH /L:1,23472 C:\MSDOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:DVD-ROM /E /M:12
LH /L:0;1,3328 /S CTMOUSE
C:\UNI\UNISOUND
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\MSDOS;C:\SB16;%PATH%
PROMPT $P$G
CLS

Reply 7 of 41, by darry

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:14:
Thank you! […]
Show full quote
Jorpho wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:11:
Use the "code" tags, as in […]
Show full quote
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:09:

I'll post them. How do I post them with the line numbers like I see other people do?

Use the "code" tags, as in

[code]

[/code]

Thank you!

Config.sys:

SWITCHES=/F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=H
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\EMM386.EXE 16834 I=B000-B7FF
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,11264 =C:\MSDOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:CD-RW /D:DVD-ROM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SHELL=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM /E:512 /P
SET PATH=C:\MSDOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\SB16;..;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP

Autoexec.bat:

SET COMSPEC=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
LH /L:0;1,41360 /S SMARTDRV
LH /L:1,23472 C:\MSDOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:DVD-ROM /E /M:12
LH /L:0;1,3328 /S CTMOUSE
C:\UNI\UNISOUND
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\MSDOS;C:\SB16;%PATH%
PROMPT $P$G
CLS

Thank you, and also please share the output of mem /c
EDIT : You can run "mem /c > c:\mem_c.txt" and share the mem_c.txt file

Reply 8 of 41, by Scythifuge

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darry wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:16:
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:14:
Thank you! […]
Show full quote
Jorpho wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:11:
Use the "code" tags, as in […]
Show full quote

Use the "code" tags, as in

[code]

[/code]

Thank you!

Config.sys:

SWITCHES=/F
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=11,0
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=H
FCBS=1,0
STACKS=0,0
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=128 /TESTMEM:OFF /Q
DEVICE=C:\MSDOS\EMM386.EXE 16834 I=B000-B7FF
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,11264 =C:\MSDOS\VIDE-CDD.SYS /D:CD-RW /D:DVD-ROM
DEVICEHIGH=C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
SHELL=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM /E:512 /P
SET PATH=C:\MSDOS;C:\WINDOWS;C:\SB16;..;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP

Autoexec.bat:

SET COMSPEC=C:\MSDOS\COMMAND.COM
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0
LH /L:0;1,41360 /S SMARTDRV
LH /L:1,23472 C:\MSDOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:DVD-ROM /E /M:12
LH /L:0;1,3328 /S CTMOUSE
C:\UNI\UNISOUND
PATH=C:\WINDOWS;C:\MSDOS;C:\SB16;%PATH%
PROMPT $P$G
CLS

Thank you, and also please share the output of mem /c
EDIT : You can run "mem /c > c:\mem_c.txt" and share the mem_c.txt file

Modules using memory below 1Mb:

Name Total = Conventional + Upper Memory
-------- ---------------- ---------------- ----------------
SYSTEM 14,192 (14K) 9,552 (9K) 4,640 (5K)
HIMEM 1,152 (1K) 1,152 (1K) 0 (0K)
EMM386 4,304 (4K) 4,304 (4K) 0 (0K)
SMARTDRV 29,120 (28K) 29,120 (28K) 0 (0K)
VIDE-CDD 5,008 (5K) 0 (0K) 5,008 (5K)
IFSHLP 3,856 (4K) 0 (0K) 3,856 (4K)
MSCDEX 16,144 (16K) 0 (0K) 16,144 (16K)
CTMOUSE 3,328 (3K) 0 (0K) 3,328 (3K)
COMMAND 10,240 (10K) 0 (0K) 10,240 (10K)
FREE 638,112 (623K) 609,168 (595K) 28,944 (28K)

Memory summary:

Type of Memory Total = Used + Free
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Conventional 655,360 46,192 609,168
Upper 72,160 43,216 28,944
Reserved 330,272 330,272 0
Extended (XMS) 535,813,120 3,194,880 532,618,240
---------------- ----------- ----------- -----------
Total memory 536,870,912 3,614,560 533,256,352

Total under 1Mb 727,520 89,408 638,112

Total Expanded (EMS) 17,170,432 (16,768K)
Free Expanded (EMS) 16,744,448 (16,352K)

Total Extended (XMS) 535,813,120 (523,255K)
Free Extended (XMS) 532,618,240 (520,135K)

Largest executable program size 608,832 (595K)
Largest free upper memory block 13,664 (13K)
Available space in High Memory Area 1,744 (2K)
MS-DOS is resident in the high memory area.

Reply 9 of 41, by Scythifuge

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Thank you! I posted my MEM above. I have to leave to go to someone's house, but I'll have my phone with me and will check the thread, and I will play with settings when I get back! It looks like I just need to figure out how to load SMARTDRV into upper memory.

Reply 10 of 41, by darry

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:24:

Thank you! I posted my MEM above. I have to leave to go to someone's house, but I'll have my phone with me and will check the thread, and I will play with settings when I get back! It looks like I just need to figure out how to load SMARTDRV into upper memory.

Why are you specifying a minimum size of 41360 for smartdrv ? I could be wrong, but it is presumably not loading high because there is no UMB block big enough and its memory footprint in conventional memory suggests it does not need that much .

Reply 11 of 41, by Scythifuge

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darry wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:43:
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:24:

Thank you! I posted my MEM above. I have to leave to go to someone's house, but I'll have my phone with me and will check the thread, and I will play with settings when I get back! It looks like I just need to figure out how to load SMARTDRV into upper memory.

Why are you specifying a minimum size of 41360 for smartdrv ? I could be wrong, but it is presumably not loading high because there is no UMB block big enough and its memory footprint in conventional memory suggests it does not need that much .

Memmaker set that up. I can play with those numbers.

Reply 12 of 41, by Horun

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If you running pure DOS (6.x/7,x) then you do not need Ifshelp.sys loading, it only gives 32bit access for when in Windows and does not help much in DOS IIRC and if running off a SD card you really do not need SmartDRV as the CF drive is faster than any IDE that may need some caching. Or am I misunderstanding ? 😀

Last edited by Horun on 2021-07-05, 02:22. Edited 1 time in total.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 13 of 41, by darry

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:55:
darry wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:43:
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 01:24:

Thank you! I posted my MEM above. I have to leave to go to someone's house, but I'll have my phone with me and will check the thread, and I will play with settings when I get back! It looks like I just need to figure out how to load SMARTDRV into upper memory.

Why are you specifying a minimum size of 41360 for smartdrv ? I could be wrong, but it is presumably not loading high because there is no UMB block big enough and its memory footprint in conventional memory suggests it does not need that much .

Memmaker set that up. I can play with those numbers.

What happens if you remove all those Memmaker added references ? I gave up on memmaker a long time ago . My preferred approach has usually been to try to load high the biggest memory users first without trying to explicitly fit the puzzle pieces as tightly as possible. That has worked well enough for me, so I am probably not the best person to assist in more advanced tweaking, if that ends up being necessary .

Reply 14 of 41, by darry

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Horun wrote on 2021-07-05, 02:21:

If you running pure DOS (6.x/7,x) then you do not need Ifshelp.sys loading, it only gives 32bit access for when in Windows and does not help much in DOS IIRC and if running off a SD card you really do not need SmartDRV as the CF drive is faster than any IDE that may need some caching. Or am I misunderstanding ? 😀

Very good points .

I run off of an SSD and typically do not load smartdrv either , though it can be useful for CDROMs, though .

Reply 15 of 41, by Caluser2000

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Reduce your Files= entry to half of what you listed.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 16 of 41, by Scythifuge

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I just got back and I am firing up the PC. I'm going to remove the memmaker lines and see what happens. I wasn't sure about SMARTDRV. I remember old Origin Systems game installation instructions mentioned using SMARTDRV for games like Ultima VII which thrashed drives a lot. I am using an SD-to-IDE drive, bypassing CF cards/adapters with this build (previous builds used CF-to-IDE drives with CF cards or CD/SD adapters.) If I don't need it, I'll get ride of it. Part of conquering EMM386 is to get as close to 640k as I can while loading as much as I can into upper memory, almost as though it is a game in of itself.

I'll remove IFSHELP for this SD card. After I tweak this DOS card to my liking, I'm going to clone it and then make a dedicated set up for WFW 3.11.

Reply 18 of 41, by Caluser2000

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Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 03:04:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-05, 03:03:

Reduce your Files= entry to half of what you listed.

Will do!

If that works out go to Files=15 or 20 and Buffers=10

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 19 of 41, by Scythifuge

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Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-05, 03:13:
Scythifuge wrote on 2021-07-05, 03:04:
Caluser2000 wrote on 2021-07-05, 03:03:

Reduce your Files= entry to half of what you listed.

Will do!

If that works out go to Files=15 or 20 and Buffers=10

Removing memmaker stuff and reducing files loads SMARTDRV partially into upper memory, though still leaves me with 595k. The MSD map and UMBCHK keep giving different results, as if ROMs change memory addresses, and UMBS move around.

I'll try reducing the files further and decrease the buffer.