VOGONS


Reply 340 of 574, by Sphere478

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Does anyone feel like discovering what the options on the k6-III do?

I’m suspecting they do the same thing,

0kb, 128kb, 256kb.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 341 of 574, by Nemo1985

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I don't see any good reason for using glue on the die.
If the thermal paste get dry (it will), the same does the glue, with the con that probably won't trasnfer heat as fine as thermal paste, even if it's not a hot cpu lower temperatures on the core are always better even for longevity.

It would be interesting to compare the glued cpu cores and the thermal paste ones.

Reply 342 of 574, by Sphere478

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-16, 21:53:

I don't see any good reason for using glue on the die.
If the thermal paste get dry (it will), the same does the glue, with the con that probably won't trasnfer heat as fine as thermal paste, even if it's not a hot cpu lower temperatures on the core are always better even for longevity.

It would be interesting to compare the glued cpu cores and the thermal paste ones.

The Epoxy that I have been using is meant for thermal interfaces. (Thermal adhesive)

I also had good results with urethane. It seems no matter what you use, it’s going to work. Unless it’s liquid metal. Don’t do that unless you replace the IHS with something different.

My main concerns are around making the cpu hold up to time. Decades from now it would be nice if we could still enjoy it.

I have a shattered k6-2 cpu

I could do some removal tests with the epoxy, or other tests if anyone has suggestions.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 343 of 574, by Nemo1985

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Yes you are right, I forgot it was a thermal epoxy 😁
Can you find the thermal conductivity of the epoxy? It could be compared with most common thermal pastes

To have a comparison I think you'd need a motherboard with temperature sensor or put a tiny thermistor between the die and the lid.

Reply 344 of 574, by Vegge

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I've also done this mod to a 570. I used a scrap s7 board to hold the cpu in place while working on it.

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Cpu works great at 100x6. Went from a regular k6-2 450 to this, it gave a nice boost to the system.
I mounted the IHS with what I found here at home. Noctua paste on the core and some loctite quick gasket at the corners.

Reply 345 of 574, by Sphere478

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Added 😀 thanks! Good job!

I mounted the IHS with what I found here at home. Noctua paste on the core and some loctite quick gasket at the corners.

Yeah, it doesn’t take much to get it back on. We’re being perfectionist. Don’t mind us 🤣 :p

Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-16, 22:20:

Yes you are right, I forgot it was a thermal epoxy 😁
Can you find the thermal conductivity of the epoxy? It could be compared with most common thermal pastes

To have a comparison I think you'd need a motherboard with temperature sensor or put a tiny thermistor between the die and the lid.

Thermal conductivity of 0.8 W/(m·K)
https://www.mgchemicals.com/products/adhesive … s/thermal-glue/

Little low, but more than enough for the k6 Is there better stuff we could be ordering? Epoxy is working great. I love the fast cure time. Can test the cpu in about a hour after doing the mod which is nice

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 346 of 574, by Sphere478

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8329TCM-6ML

This stuff seems to be 1.4W/(m·K)

5200 Epoxy
2.5 W/mK but it’s electrically conductive so that’s a consern.

5336 Epoxy — 1.48 W/mK Says it’s electrically isolating. (Can’t find it)

Seems like this stuff may be the next stuff to try (the first one)

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mg … 9RoCpcIQAvD_BwE

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Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 347 of 574, by Sphere478

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I’ll pull this cpu back apart once it cures. So we can see what to expect.

I expect full destruction 🤣

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Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 348 of 574, by Nemo1985

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Artic Silver 5 has: 8.9 W/mK
Artic Mx-2 has: 5.6 W/mK
Artic Mx-4 has: 8.5 W/mK
Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut: 11.8W/mk

As you can see those values are quite higher compared to the thermal epoxy.

Sure it's not worth to buy such things for 1 cpus, but who doesn't have a wide collection of thermal paste if not us? 😁

Since it doesn't dry, my favourite is still the Artic Silver 5

I wouldn't worry about the lid being kept in place since before modifing the cpu it was hold with the glue on the 4 corners.

Reply 349 of 574, by cyclone3d

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Arctic MX-5 is over 4x thermally conductive than that thermal epoxy. (6.0W/mk). Or is MX-5 higher? Where do these numbers come from?

And I would only consider it a good compound because it is decent enough for most things and should not dry out.

See here for a review of some current compounds.
https://www.tomshardware.com/best-picks/best-thermal-paste

The highest one tested as far as regular compounds is
Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut at 12.5W/mk.

I've used it before but it is kinda expensive.

AS5 vs Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut
https://youtu.be/MmUHNZzD254

Here is Arctic's test for their MX-5. I looked at their documentation and they don't list the thermal conductivity:

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Reply 350 of 574, by pentiumspeed

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I now use MX-5 which is greater than 8.x. This change occurred after finding out some of AS5 spilled on the electronic components made customer's PS4 to not start, this was about a year after it's service, cleaned up the mess and used MX-5 resolved the issue, and now no call backs on other customer consoles and I'm using MX-5 for nearly a year now. The manual for AS5 is correct on paste is electrically conductive and I knew this for several years. The mess was trail of paste by accident.

I love grizzly Hydronaut but if I need, can buy a tube of Grizzly Kryonaut paste but price is expensive but great for very demanding types like bare die Athlon and GPU greater than 100W and early GPU. I also use Noctua NT-H2 for normal use.

PS reason for MX-5 works so well is the viscosity is less when fresh made the paste to spread easier therefore thickness layer thinner between IHS and heatsink if surface area is large. Once applied and cycled few times the paste get stiffer which I really like too.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 351 of 574, by Sphere478

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I see, agree and understand that the HQ paste is more conducive. But this is a k6 3+ cpu. It doesn’t make much heat. I could probably use some banana pudding on the die and still do 600mhz.

I wish we had a temp sensor in the die.

You know, it was mentioned earlier, adding a temp sensor next to the die.

Maybe we could order them and install them under the IHS when doing the mod.🤷‍♂️ They would have to be pretty thin,

So is it the case that most people think that a high conductive paste should be used vs a lower conductive but permanent over the decades adhesive?

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 352 of 574, by pentiumspeed

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Few days ago I got first ever repair for a particular model is Xbox 360. With experienced eye, I understood why they had cooling problems with these. It was the type of TIM paste they used was faulty.

Before paste was replaced, the actual repair was optical laser replacement but with each console under repair, they get a complete disassembly for dust cleaning and thermal paste replaced.
Their 360 TIM paste is hard as rock and where die and heatsink were the paste thermal particles was pumped out leaving the clear binder behind which is very resistant and hard to clean up even with alcohol. Not as bad with all Xbox one series but still had pump out issue plus too much TIM made excess rehardened around APU package which held up the heatsink apart from the APU die.

Back to 360 had to warm up the heatsink and dies to get old paste off, it's the stiff waxy stuff that is hard to shift.
Like I modded the PS4 and Xbox one heatsinks, I give their 360's heatsinks a light lap with wet and dry 600 grit wrapped around small flat metal piece. New paste is MX-5, Before heatsinks were cooler, after this repair heatsinks are warmer. External power brick's fan gets a service, was stuck so I freed up with a lube and clean out dust.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 353 of 574, by Sphere478

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Need help, De-Lidded k6 cpu configurations

we now have a delidded database

if anyone wants to add more, please/thank you

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 354 of 574, by BitWrangler

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2022-03-16, 23:48:
I now use MX-5 which is greater than 8.x. This change occurred after finding out some of AS5 spilled on the electronic compone […]
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I now use MX-5 which is greater than 8.x. This change occurred after finding out some of AS5 spilled on the electronic components made customer's PS4 to not start, this was about a year after it's service, cleaned up the mess and used MX-5 resolved the issue, and now no call backs on other customer consoles and I'm using MX-5 for nearly a year now. The manual for AS5 is correct on paste is electrically conductive and I knew this for several years. The mess was trail of paste by accident.

I love grizzly Hydronaut but if I need, can buy a tube of Grizzly Kryonaut paste but price is expensive but great for very demanding types like bare die Athlon and GPU greater than 100W and early GPU. I also use Noctua NT-H2 for normal use.

PS reason for MX-5 works so well is the viscosity is less when fresh made the paste to spread easier therefore thickness layer thinner between IHS and heatsink if surface area is large. Once applied and cycled few times the paste get stiffer which I really like too.

Cheers,

Well if whatever anyone has in stock worries them, they can give the discretes a "bib"

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-06, 15:36:

Note it's wearing a scotch tape "bib" to keep thermal paste off the discretes.

that's 20 year old and run hot for a year or two scotch tape, held up fine.
(Edit: click on date and time to go back to orig post for image if anyone doesn't know that already)

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 355 of 574, by Sphere478

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Just popped the epoxy loose.

https://youtube.com/shorts/E5soi2jcDmg?feature=share

A little leverage under the IHS and it just popped right off. After that, all of it was able to be broken loose by finger nail and plastic scraper, revealing a pristine cpu ready for a new adhesive. Including what was attached to the core top.

I’m gonna try out the polyurethane next. It takes quite some time to set up good though. Like a week. But seems quite strong once done.

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Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 356 of 574, by Skalabala

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-16, 21:53:

I don't see any good reason for using glue on the die.
If the thermal paste get dry (it will), the same does the glue, with the con that probably won't trasnfer heat as fine as thermal paste, even if it's not a hot cpu lower temperatures on the core are always better even for longevity.

It would be interesting to compare the glued cpu cores and the thermal paste ones.

The glue is on the die because the lid is thin and can move under pressure every time you remove or install a heat sync.
If the lid tolerance is in such a way that when the four corners are glued with pressure and the center adds pressure to the die only then it is ok to not use a thermal glue.
You get a white thermal glue that is not strong like epoxy, I will recommend to use this and do inspection on the lid tolerance to see if its ok to use a good thermal paste.
This is what I will be doing when I get to it 😀

Reply 357 of 574, by Skalabala

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Nemo1985 wrote on 2022-03-16, 23:35:
Artic Silver 5 has: 8.9 W/mK Artic Mx-2 has: 5.6 W/mK Artic Mx-4 has: 8.5 W/mK Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut: 11.8W/mk […]
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Artic Silver 5 has: 8.9 W/mK
Artic Mx-2 has: 5.6 W/mK
Artic Mx-4 has: 8.5 W/mK
Thermal Grizzly Hydronaut: 11.8W/mk

As you can see those values are quite higher compared to the thermal epoxy.

Sure it's not worth to buy such things for 1 cpus, but who doesn't have a wide collection of thermal paste if not us? 😁

Since it doesn't dry, my favourite is still the Artic Silver 5

I wouldn't worry about the lid being kept in place since before modifing the cpu it was hold with the glue on the 4 corners.

This is interesting, my one best friend is the owner of Thermal Grizzly 😁 Now I know what paste I am going to use 😜

Reply 358 of 574, by Nemo1985

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Skalabala wrote on 2022-03-17, 07:46:

This is interesting, my one best friend is the owner of Thermal Grizzly 😁 Now I know what paste I am going to use 😜

Keep in mind that my thermal grizzly became dry in something like 2 years (I used it on my current pcs and when changed the cpu on my 10 years old laptop), while Artic Silver 5 was soft after like 6 years.

Reply 359 of 574, by Sphere478

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I wonder how hard it would be to make a copper heat spreader and use liquid metal

Too bad I don’t have access to the dies used to make the old spreaders.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)