VOGONS


Reply 20 of 42, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-06, 15:04:

You seem to be the one to ask questions about Voodoo, I just grabbed a Banshee and was under the impression from reading around that they have great DOS compatibility . .did something change between the 2D of the Banshee and the Voodoo3 ?

I have a Voodoo 4 4500 too and more out of curiosity how is the 2D compatibility for that ?

Don't you know the DOS compatibility matrix?
https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/
Seems like the 2D unit wasn't changed between Banshee and Voodoo5. Just like nVidia didn't change anything on the 2D part between TNT1 and GeForce FX. As far as I know they changed something on the 2D part starting with the 6000 series. The matrix doesn't really display that. I wish there would be a more complete matrix.
The 2D unit on the 3dfx isn't bad. There are far worse. Just have a look at ATI. I agree with leonardo here: Pile of trash. 🤣

Also:
Voodoo 3 and Banshee only support 16bit colors, while TNT and GeForce support 32bit. So they're superior for OpenGL and D3D.
The primary reason to get a Voodoo is the Glide API, nothing else.

Another thing that should be mentioned:
Older Glide games cause problems on newer Voodoo cards. There are a handful of games that will only work on Voodoo1. That's why I bought one yesterday. Probably won't use it much, but it's nice to have. Just in case. There are also a few games that have issues with Voodoo3 but run fine on Voodoo2.

So there are plenty of reasons to pick GeForce2 + Voodoo2 SLI over Voodoo3.
Glide performance of Voodoo2 SLI is roughly the same as Voodoo3. People who had a Voodoo2 SLI setup didn't upgrade to Voodoo3. They just swapped their Matrox card for a TNT or GeForce.

Reply 21 of 42, by TrashPanda

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is there a way around the glide compatibility issues ?

I was thinking about seeing if a pair of Voodoo2s would work with the Voodoo 4 ..I haven't read anything about it not working but I can see it will likely cause driver issues at some point.

I didnt know about he matrix but ill check it out !

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 22 of 42, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-06, 16:57:

is there a way around the glide compatibility issues ?

Yeah, there are patches of course. But not for all games.
There might be a way to solve the issues by tinkering around. But if you have to spend hours to get a game to work it kinda defeats the purpose of a retro build imho.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-06, 16:57:

I was thinking about seeing if a pair of Voodoo2s would work with the Voodoo 4 ..I haven't read anything about it not working but I can see it will likely cause driver issues at some point.

Might work.
Add a Voodoo1 for the earliest Glide games and swap the Voodoo4 for a Voodoo5 6000 replica to get the ultimate 3dfx machine. 🤣
Just kidding. I would build a separate machine for Voodoo4/5.

Reply 23 of 42, by TrashPanda

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-06, 17:54:
Yeah, there are patches of course. But not for all games. There might be a way to solve the issues by tinkering around. But if y […]
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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-06, 16:57:

is there a way around the glide compatibility issues ?

Yeah, there are patches of course. But not for all games.
There might be a way to solve the issues by tinkering around. But if you have to spend hours to get a game to work it kinda defeats the purpose of a retro build imho.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-06, 16:57:

I was thinking about seeing if a pair of Voodoo2s would work with the Voodoo 4 ..I haven't read anything about it not working but I can see it will likely cause driver issues at some point.

Might work.
Add a Voodoo1 for the earliest Glide games and swap the Voodoo4 for a Voodoo5 6000 replica to get the ultimate 3dfx machine. 🤣
Just kidding. I would build a separate machine for Voodoo4/5.

Yeah it was just a thought honestly, one I might try at some point just to find out if it works and what conflicts might be there but not a setup I would actually use, the Voodoo2 SLI works amazingly well with a MX400.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 24 of 42, by pinesal

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-06, 14:58:
My childhood in a nutshell. xD I guess we all had that one rich kid in our class, who always had the newest shit. […]
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pinesal wrote on 2022-01-31, 01:20:

My friend was the one with the awesome custom gaming rigs. He had the voodoo cards and the huge towers etc. I was always jealous.

My childhood in a nutshell. xD
I guess we all had that one rich kid in our class, who always had the newest shit.

pinesal wrote on 2022-01-31, 01:20:

Well, I actually had a reason to go in there last week and when I did, I saw this beige beauty just piled up in the corner of the room. I asked the HOA board what was up with it and I was told they plan to recycle it. NO WAY! I said. I asked if I could have it and they agreed and gave it to me!

They are nuts!
That beige beauty is worth around 200 bucks. A really nice catch.

Super Socket 7 is a very popular plattform for retro gaming these days for a very simple reason:
K6 CPUs have an unlocked multi. Intel started to lock their multis with Pentium II. So you can downclock your K6 to 386 levels, which gives you access to a broader spectrum of games.
The result is the absurd situation, that budget systems (K6) are more expensive than highend (P2). Nice SS7 boards sell for around 100 bucks these days.

Recently a huge stockpile (~100,000 pieces!) of K6-II+ 570MHz surfaced. Those have integrated L2 cache which allows you to cache up to 4GB RAM. So you can max out the RAM if you want. Also the integrated L2 cache is much faster than your onboard cache, which would give you an additional performance boost.
They are sold in a lot of 3 for $70 on Ebay. The seller also accepts offers of $60 for 3. Maybe you can find someone who sells you a single piece for a reasonable price? Many people here on Vogons bought a lot and now have spare units. I would offer you one my spare ones, but shipping it back to the US would be too expensive. Don't let them scam you. Some people try to resell them for 50 bucks. Wouldn't pay more than 25-30 for one.
You won't get the best piece from the lot. My best can run 600MHz@2.05V. My buddy Hirsch (that lucker) has one which can run 600MHz@1.85V. But they all should be able to pull off 550MHz at reduced voltage. 5.5*100MHz is preferable over 6*95MHz (stock speed), so you can use the full speed of your RAM.
There's also the K6-III(+), which has even more cache. But those sell for a premium. The K6-II+ 570 is the best bang for the buck.

For the graphics card, I would recommend a GeForce 2 MX 400. You can get those for $5-$10. Anything beyond that will be bottlenecked by the CPU anyway.
They have excellent compatibility and are very popular for SS7 builds.

pinesal wrote on 2022-01-31, 15:40:

I am not sure how I feel about continuing to use the Trident card. I definitely want 3d acceleration. Would a Voodoo 2 card give me the performance and support for games up to 1999? Voodoos are pretty expensive. I was happy to get the Rage Fury for $12.

You don't want a Voodoo for the raw performance. The reason why they're so high in demand is the compatibility. Many old games don't support OpenGL or Direct3D. Only Glide or ugly software rendering. And for the Glide API you need a Voodoo. So if you want a really nice system, there's no way around a Voodoo.
Many people here use a Voodoo3 in their SS7 systems. But there are better choices for 2D. For example Voodoo cards cause problems with Commander Keen. A GeForce/Voodoo combo gives you more flexibility.
If you only want to get one Voodoo2, you can pick a 8MB one. If you plan to go for SLI, you should pick a 12MB one.

What's the exact model of your Soundblaster 16? Can you give us the CT code?
Does it have a Yamaha OPL3 chip? If it has: Lucky you! Those sell for a premium.
But even if it only has a CQM chip, you're fine with it for now imho. People who complain how terrible CQM is are exaggerating. Your graphics card is currently the biggest construction site in your machine.
By the way: OPL/CQM is for Adlib sound.

Thanks for all the info. I will put the AMD K6II+ on my wishlist. Also the Nvidia card.

As for the sound card. It's a CT2980 ISA card. I have been having some issues with the sound and I was going to make post a separate thread but since we are on that topic now, I'll ask here.

There are two things that are bothering me.
1. I started playing Journeyman Project 3, a Windows 95 game with heavy reliance on FMV and there is constant audio popping and it's super annoying. So far I only get it with this software. You can adjust the audio quality in the game but nothing seems to help. Is there anything I can try to troubleshoot that?
2. Worse, is some DOS games have no sound or only have MIDI. DOOM and Duke Nukem 3d play sound perfectly but I tried playing Discworld and there is only the midi music and no voice or sound FX. I also tried playing a 1996 game called Fable (not the Lionhead game) and there was no sound at all. This is using full DOS mode.

I am also having an unrelated problem with the CD rom and getting it to work in both Windows 98 and DOS at the same time. I messed with the Config.sys and the Autoexec in various ways and I can get the CD rom to work under Windows but it stops working in DOS and I can get it to work under DOS but then stops working in Windows. Ugh. I found a website called Phils Computer Lab which had some files and a driver package at that reboots the PC into dos mode with CD rom support and it's a fine work around I guess but would like to get it to work properly.

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 25 of 42, by Joakim

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I think that card is one of the sb16 pnp cards, they are known to be buggy, and most people don't like them. I use a later one in a build and I don't think it is that bad, especially if you use an external midi device.

The popping sound can very well be hardware bugs, but it is also recommended to set all inputs to 0 and it might give you a cleaner sound. I would advice to use Unisound driver as it is so much easier to use and includes a mixer that is very easy to use.

Use irq 5 or 7 for compatibility reasons.

Not sure about the cd ROM issue. I use the teac driver which load into high memory. Maybe try a different driver.

Edit: I wrote external mixer by I meant midi device.

Last edited by Joakim on 2022-02-07, 18:30. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 26 of 42, by boxpressed

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I rebuilt my original Windows 98 machine (FIC VA-503+) about six years ago. If you want to play FPS games and can afford it, the best video card for this board is a Voodoo 3 or Voodoo 2 (SLI).

If you get a K6-2+ or K6-3+, be sure to check out the SETMUL utility to slow down your computer to play earlier games.

Here's an old thread I started about my VA-503+. K6-3+ Daily Driver Finally (Almost) Complete

Reply 27 of 42, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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boxpressed wrote on 2022-02-07, 18:28:

If you get a K6-2+ or K6-3+, be sure to check out the SETMUL utility to slow down your computer to play earlier games.

Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs.
Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz.
Wouldn't wait too long to get it. People are already speculating, that the seller might be tempted to melt them down at some point for the ~$10 of raw materials in them. It's pretty much impossible to sell 100k pieces. If that happens, the price will go up again.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

Thanks for all the info. I will put the AMD K6II+ on my wishlist. Also the Nvidia card.

No Voodoo?
Don't see it as "spending" money. See it as investing instead. Prices for Voodoo cards are rising quickly. +50% within the last 2 years.
If you're ever in dire need, you can easily sell it. Voodoo cards sell quickly.
If you're lucky, you might be able to find a Voodoo that isn't advertised as such. In a lot for example. I already got 3 of them this way.
Another method of "ninja purchasing" Voodoo cards, is to look for old machines that have a card with VGA input and VGA output. Many people here on Vogons got their Voodoo cards this way.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

As for the sound card. It's a CT2980 ISA card. I have been having some issues with the sound and I was going to make post a separate thread but since we are on that topic now, I'll ask here.

It's a budget card.
You might want to upgrade that at later point.

Reply 28 of 42, by pinesal

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-08, 16:59:
Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs. Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz. Wouldn't […]
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boxpressed wrote on 2022-02-07, 18:28:

If you get a K6-2+ or K6-3+, be sure to check out the SETMUL utility to slow down your computer to play earlier games.

Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs.
Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz.
Wouldn't wait too long to get it. People are already speculating, that the seller might be tempted to melt them down at some point for the ~$10 of raw materials in them. It's pretty much impossible to sell 100k pieces. If that happens, the price will go up again.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

Thanks for all the info. I will put the AMD K6II+ on my wishlist. Also the Nvidia card.

No Voodoo?
Don't see it as "spending" money. See it as investing instead. Prices for Voodoo cards are rising quickly. +50% within the last 2 years.
If you're ever in dire need, you can easily sell it. Voodoo cards sell quickly.
If you're lucky, you might be able to find a Voodoo that isn't advertised as such. In a lot for example. I already got 3 of them this way.
Another method of "ninja purchasing" Voodoo cards, is to look for old machines that have a card with VGA input and VGA output. Many people here on Vogons got their Voodoo cards this way.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

As for the sound card. It's a CT2980 ISA card. I have been having some issues with the sound and I was going to make post a separate thread but since we are on that topic now, I'll ask here.

It's a budget card.
You might want to upgrade that at later point.

Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+?
EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902
or maybe this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234380556829

Should I get a Voodoo2 add in card so that I have Glide support? Will that work alongside the ATI Rage Fury Pro that I already have? If you have a recommended seller for that too, I'd like to know. Thanks again.

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 29 of 42, by TrashPanda

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pinesal wrote on 2022-02-08, 17:15:
Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+? EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902 or maybe this one? https: […]
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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-08, 16:59:
Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs. Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz. Wouldn't […]
Show full quote
boxpressed wrote on 2022-02-07, 18:28:

If you get a K6-2+ or K6-3+, be sure to check out the SETMUL utility to slow down your computer to play earlier games.

Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs.
Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz.
Wouldn't wait too long to get it. People are already speculating, that the seller might be tempted to melt them down at some point for the ~$10 of raw materials in them. It's pretty much impossible to sell 100k pieces. If that happens, the price will go up again.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

Thanks for all the info. I will put the AMD K6II+ on my wishlist. Also the Nvidia card.

No Voodoo?
Don't see it as "spending" money. See it as investing instead. Prices for Voodoo cards are rising quickly. +50% within the last 2 years.
If you're ever in dire need, you can easily sell it. Voodoo cards sell quickly.
If you're lucky, you might be able to find a Voodoo that isn't advertised as such. In a lot for example. I already got 3 of them this way.
Another method of "ninja purchasing" Voodoo cards, is to look for old machines that have a card with VGA input and VGA output. Many people here on Vogons got their Voodoo cards this way.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-07, 16:20:

As for the sound card. It's a CT2980 ISA card. I have been having some issues with the sound and I was going to make post a separate thread but since we are on that topic now, I'll ask here.

It's a budget card.
You might want to upgrade that at later point.

Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+?
EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902
or maybe this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234380556829

Should I get a Voodoo2 add in card so that I have Glide support? Will that work alongside the ATI Rage Fury Pro that I already have? If you have a recommended seller for that too, I'd like to know. Thanks again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274825467551?hash=it … -8AAOSwvYNgvk3V

This one

70 USD for three of them, but you might be able to make an offer of 60 USD and they might accept it. (Most wont need 3 but you can bench mark them and use the best of the three and sell the other two)

Also just so you know eBay links are generally not allowed as they can be seen as self promotion, hopefully the mods see this link for what it is. (I'm not the seller and I have no association to the seller, only linking here to assist Pinesal)

You could get a Voodoo2 if you wanted and it would work just fine alongside the ATI, I wont link to eBay for this but you can just search for 3DFX Voodoo2 on eBay US and it will give you plenty of results, just a word of warning however, all 3DFX GPUS are priced stupidly high right now and they are not a great option because of this stupid pricing but if you are patient you might be able to snag a Voodoo2 at a good price.

I dont know if one of the glide wrappers would work well with your ATI card but they are also an option to get glide support without spending a huge amount of cash.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 30 of 42, by pinesal

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-08, 18:20:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274825467551?hash=it … -8AAOSwvYNgvk3V […]
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pinesal wrote on 2022-02-08, 17:15:
Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+? EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902 or maybe this one? https: […]
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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-08, 16:59:
Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs. Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz. Wouldn't […]
Show full quote

Wow, I didn't knew until today, that SetMul only works with the plus CPUs.
Another strong reason for the K6-2+ 570MHz.
Wouldn't wait too long to get it. People are already speculating, that the seller might be tempted to melt them down at some point for the ~$10 of raw materials in them. It's pretty much impossible to sell 100k pieces. If that happens, the price will go up again.

No Voodoo?
Don't see it as "spending" money. See it as investing instead. Prices for Voodoo cards are rising quickly. +50% within the last 2 years.
If you're ever in dire need, you can easily sell it. Voodoo cards sell quickly.
If you're lucky, you might be able to find a Voodoo that isn't advertised as such. In a lot for example. I already got 3 of them this way.
Another method of "ninja purchasing" Voodoo cards, is to look for old machines that have a card with VGA input and VGA output. Many people here on Vogons got their Voodoo cards this way.

It's a budget card.
You might want to upgrade that at later point.

Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+?
EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902
or maybe this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234380556829

Should I get a Voodoo2 add in card so that I have Glide support? Will that work alongside the ATI Rage Fury Pro that I already have? If you have a recommended seller for that too, I'd like to know. Thanks again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274825467551?hash=it … -8AAOSwvYNgvk3V

This one

70 USD for three of them, but you might be able to make an offer of 60 USD and they might accept it. (Most wont need 3 but you can bench mark them and use the best of the three and sell the other two)

Also just so you know eBay links are generally not allowed as they can be seen as self promotion, hopefully the mods see this link for what it is. (I'm not the seller and I have no association to the seller, only linking here to assist Pinesal)

You could get a Voodoo2 if you wanted and it would work just fine alongside the ATI, I wont link to eBay for this but you can just search for 3DFX Voodoo2 on eBay US and it will give you plenty of results, just a word of warning however, all 3DFX GPUS are priced stupidly high right now and they are not a great option because of this stupid pricing but if you are patient you might be able to snag a Voodoo2 at a good price.

I dont know if one of the glide wrappers would work well with your ATI card but they are also an option to get glide support without spending a huge amount of cash.

Thank you! I put in the offer for $60.
I will wait in the voodoo card for now. I still need to experiment with a glide wrapper. I tried OpenGlide and the results weren't good with the one game I tried.

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 31 of 42, by TrashPanda

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pinesal wrote on 2022-02-08, 20:55:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-08, 18:20:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274825467551?hash=it … -8AAOSwvYNgvk3V […]
Show full quote
pinesal wrote on 2022-02-08, 17:15:
Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+? EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902 or maybe this one? https: […]
Show full quote

Do you have a link to the seller of the K6II+?
EDIT: Found this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/223290895902
or maybe this one? https://www.ebay.com/itm/234380556829

Should I get a Voodoo2 add in card so that I have Glide support? Will that work alongside the ATI Rage Fury Pro that I already have? If you have a recommended seller for that too, I'd like to know. Thanks again.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274825467551?hash=it … -8AAOSwvYNgvk3V

This one

70 USD for three of them, but you might be able to make an offer of 60 USD and they might accept it. (Most wont need 3 but you can bench mark them and use the best of the three and sell the other two)

Also just so you know eBay links are generally not allowed as they can be seen as self promotion, hopefully the mods see this link for what it is. (I'm not the seller and I have no association to the seller, only linking here to assist Pinesal)

You could get a Voodoo2 if you wanted and it would work just fine alongside the ATI, I wont link to eBay for this but you can just search for 3DFX Voodoo2 on eBay US and it will give you plenty of results, just a word of warning however, all 3DFX GPUS are priced stupidly high right now and they are not a great option because of this stupid pricing but if you are patient you might be able to snag a Voodoo2 at a good price.

I dont know if one of the glide wrappers would work well with your ATI card but they are also an option to get glide support without spending a huge amount of cash.

Thank you! I put in the offer for $60.
I will wait in the voodoo card for now. I still need to experiment with a glide wrapper. I tried OpenGlide and the results weren't good with the one game I tried.

A lot of the glide wrappers run better on nVidia GPUs as they have the best compatibility for OpenGL and Direct X, the wrapper basically takes Glide draw calls from the game and translates them to either Direct X or OpenGL, so if your GPU isn't particularly good or powerful at either one then you'll have issues with the wrapper.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 32 of 42, by The Serpent Rider

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the wrapper basically takes Glide draw calls

Eh, not only that. Proper Glide wrapper still need to emulate some stuff with shaders.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 33 of 42, by TrashPanda

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-02-08, 21:11:

the wrapper basically takes Glide draw calls

Eh, nope. Proper Glide wrapper still need to emulate some stuff with shaders.

ah ok I was trying to keep it simple since its rather complicated if you start digging and most people wont understand half the shit its doing behind the scenes.

Just reading that pages gives me a headache, likely why I leave such stuff to the people in the know.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 34 of 42, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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Sorry for late reply. Did need to test something first, so I don't recommend crap to you.

I see you finally got your K6-2+/570. Did you buy a lot of 3 or did you get a single unit from someone else?
There was a major breakthrough in the meantime. The Vogons collective found a way to turn K6-2+'s into K6-III+'s!
Re: SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
You might remember the story of the AMD tri core CPUs which could be turned into quad cores. Originally the idea behind the tri cores was to be able to sell quad core which had one core that didn't work properly. But because demand did outweight yield, AMD started to castrate fully functional quads. We don't know yet how many of the K6-2+ have a faulty cache. Some seem to need a bit more voltage to run the full sized cache.
If you can't do the mod yourself, you can probably find someone here on Vogons who will mod your CPUs for a small fee.

An advice on RAM:
Your board can't use single sided RAM sticks with 256MB capacity (8x32MB). It will recognize them as 128MB. You'll need double sided sticks (16x16MB). To make it even worse, your chipset is picky about which sticks it accepts. Had to learn that the hard way recently.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-08, 20:55:

I will wait in the voodoo card for now. I still need to experiment with a glide wrapper. I tried OpenGlide and the results weren't good with the one game I tried.

You should still replace your ATI with a nVidia card. Your ATI is way to weak to emulate Glide and it sucks for 2D as well.
Also you should be aware that many games won't run with a wrapper. Some will run fine. Some will be buggy. Some won't work at all.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-02-08, 18:20:

just a word of warning however, all 3DFX GPUS are priced stupidly high right now and they are not a great option because of this stupid pricing but if you are patient you might be able to snag a Voodoo2 at a good price.

Yeah, patience is key. 2 weeks ago there was a 8MB Voodoo2 on Kleinanzeigen (German Craigslist) for just 65€ ($73). It was gone within 2 days. I recently won the bid on a 12MB Voodoo2 for 77€ ($87). Now I'm looking for a matching sister but didn't have luck yet. I have two Voodoo2's now, but they're mismatched. Finding a sister for my first Voodoo2 for a reasonable price is near impossible, so I decided to look for Diamond Monster instead. They were popular back in the day because they're overclocked (100MHz instead of 90MHz), so they often pop up. If you want to go for V2 SLI, I'd suggest to look out for Diamond. Ideally same revision and same RAM type. Creative also seem to be pretty common, but they're not overclocked. With other brands you'll have trouble finding a matching sister.
But if you find a Voodoo3 or Voodoo Banshee for a good price, just grab it. You can resell it with profit, once you find V2's for a reasonable price.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-01, 15:07:

I have been debating whether I should try a CF to IDE adapter or an SD to IDE or SATA to IDE. I have an 8GB CF card but I don't know the speed of it and I have several high speed micro SD cards 16GB , 32GB and 128GB. And I have a 256 2.5" SSD drive. I went ahead and ordered a SATA to IDE adapter but I am still considering other options. I'll update this when I have made more progress.

SATA to IDE is the way go. Your board can recognize up to 137GB HDDs. Not sure if you can downsize your 256GB SSD to 137 and use it. Someone here on Vogons said it's possible, but I haven't tested it myself yet.
CF is more interesting for older machines, like 486, which can't recognize larger HDDs. It's almost impossible to find SSDs with less than 32GB capacity.

You could put three SSDs into your rig. Ideally at least one of them should be a docking bay.
For my own SS7 rig I have the following plan:
Primary Master = SSD for OS
Primary Slave = SSD docking bay for file transfer and ISO's
Secondary Master = SSD for game installations
Secondary Slave = disk drive

You should also consider to replace your CD drive with a DVD drive. In the early 2000s game compilations switched from CDs to DVD for cost reasons. Instead of 20 CDs you would just have a handful of DVDs. Same is true for game magazines. Often there were 2 different versions of a magazine. The standard issue with just 1 CD and the deluxe issue with 2 or 3 CDs. The deluxe issue would often contain a game as a bonus and did just cost 1 or 2 bucks more. Got some nice games this way, like Unreal and Incoming. At some point they switched from 3 CDs to 1 DVD. You can often find these disks very cheap on flea markets. They don't really have collectors value, but they're still legit copies.
I wouldn't buy individual drives on Ebay. Way to expensive. Look out for lots instead. You might be able to snatch up a handful of drives for a few bucks plus shipping. Got some nice drives this way. NEC, Toshiba, Philips, Sony... IDE drives are no longer produced, so it's wise to have a few spare ones. In 10 years you might need to pay insane prices for replacements.
Also consider buying a cleaning disk. Used drives often need some cleaning. A disk is much more convenient than taking the drive apart. Time is money.

Another thing you should consider: An USB 2.0 card.
With an SSD drive bay, you have a way to transfer data quickly. But you'll have to restart your computer, because IDE can't hot plug. Sucks if you just want to transfer a few patches. Unlike WinXP, Win98 doesn't have mass storage drivers for USB sticks. But there is a homebrew solution:
https://www.philscomputerlab.com/windows-98-u … age-driver.html
Cards with more than 2 USB ports will use 2 or even 3 IRQs. You should avoid that. You don't want to use USB peripherals anyway on a DOS rig. That's rather something for a pure Win98/XP build.
Stay away from VIA cards. While I achieved 35MB/s with a VT6212L on LGA775, it was slowed down to abyssmal 12MB/s on my Super Socket 7 (VIA MVP3 chipset, same as yours). Also Windows complained, that I don't have enough memory and the benchmark crashed. I had better results with a NEC D720101GJ. While it was only able to achieve 25MB/s on LGA775, the slowdown was just 25% on my MVP3 board. I've ordered a few more cards with different chips for testing purposes, but for now NEC D7201010GJ is a safe bet.
There's an US seller on Ebay which sells brandnew AUA-2000B cards for $6.89. Another one sells AUA-2000C, if you prefer a black PCB. You might be able to find them even cheaper in used condition. Search for "USB PCI" or "USB card" and have a look at the chip on the card. Got mine for 6€ (shipping included).

You also should consider adding a NIC to your build.
While Realtek cards were popular back in the day, they have the flaw that they consume too much CPU performance. Doesn't matter on a Pentium 4, but it does matter on older plattforms. 3COM is a better choice. And they can be bought cheaply. I won an auction with 3 of them for 1€ + 4€ shipping.
If you ever get Voodoo2 SLI, you'll have to get an ISA NIC (or get another mainboard with more PCI slots). Those are a bit more expensive. Like 20 bucks. But you might be able to find a bargain. Even if you wont need it, it's always nice to have spare parts to tinker around.

If you ever want to utilize all your PCI and ISA slots, you'll need a riser cable. The bottom PCI slot and top ISA slot share space, because the I/O shield of PCI cards is facing down, while the ISA card is facing up.
New riser cables can be bought for a few bucks, but they're bad quality. Held together by tape. Urghs. I recently found a better one on Ebay for 3€ minimum bid and won the auction. Maybe you're able to find something similar, so keep an eye out. I don't need the riser yet, but I plan to use 3 sound cards in the future. Patience and planning ahead is key if you want to keep your rig affordable. If you buy everything last minute, you'll pay extra.
I plan to use a 3D printer for a frame which holds the USB card in place. I'll also get an adapter cable which turns the external USB ports into an internal USB header, so I can plug in a conventional front panel. For now you can just use the USB card without a riser and tape a cheapass USB extension cable to the side of your case for easy access.

I got a few more ideas for your rig, but I'm gonna let you diggest the information first. 😁

Reply 35 of 42, by pinesal

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-24, 10:27:

Sorry for late reply. Did need to test something first, so I don't recommend crap to you.

I did get the lot of 3, sold one to a fellow Vogons member and installed one and have a spare now.

I have been following the saga of the modded K6-2+ and even saw an article about it on Tom's Hardware! Very cool and I am very interested but I am not confident in my ability to pull off such a mod. Maybe sometime soon there will be a foolproof technique that someone comes up with 😁

RAM
I was told in another thread not to go beyond 128MB but that was with my old k6-2. Now that I have a k6-2+ is the story different? I have a 64mb stick laying around that I could put in right now, if that's cool.

I got the ATI card because I wanted good bang for my buck and for just $12 for the Rage Fury Pro, I couldn't pass it up. I do think I need a Glide compatible card now though. I'll keep a look out. The hunt is half the fun right?

I did end up going sata to IDE. It's a 256 drive but only 137 is seen by Windows. The not so funny thing is, I was confused at first because the drive would not get recognized, then I found out there is no master/slave function on the adapter and I had to remove the CD drive from the chain to make work. I have the CD drive on the secondary IDE instead.

DVD drive is a good idea. If I happen to find one easy and cheap, maybe at a garage sale or something, I'll grab one.

I have a USB card in the PC now. I am not sure what speed it is, probably USB 1.1 I have been using it to copy files and disc images and stuff to the SSD. Seems fine for me.

I do want to add a NIC, it's probably the upgrade I want to do most but it seems like such a crapshoot to get one that will work. I'll have to try to find one that is confirmed to work with my MOBO. The mobo only has one ISA slot and it's being used for the sound card so it will need to be PCI.

Thanks for the reply.

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 36 of 42, by pinesal

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Ooooooh

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-2000-ELSA-Nv … 1-127632-2357-0

Should I?

Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 37 of 42, by RaiderOfLostVoodoo

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pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

I have been following the saga of the modded K6-2+ and even saw an article about it on Tom's Hardware!

I wasn't aware that there was a news article on Tom's Hardware.
"New Mod Doubles L2 Cache On AMD's K6-2+ CPU From 2000"
"22 years too late" 😁

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

I was told in another thread not to go beyond 128MB but that was with my old k6-2. Now that I have a k6-2+ is the story different? I have a 64mb stick laying around that I could put in right now, if that's cool.

Yes, that's for K6-2. With K6-2+, K6-III and K6-III+ you can cache up to 4GB RAM.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

The hunt is half the fun right?

Definitely! Quite a nice adreline rush if you purchase a Voodoo2 for 1€ and it works. 😁

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

DVD drive is a good idea. If I happen to find one easy and cheap, maybe at a garage sale or something, I'll grab one.

Garage sales and flea markets can be good sources for retro hardware, yes.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

I have a USB card in the PC now. I am not sure what speed it is, probably USB 1.1 I have been using it to copy files and disc images and stuff to the SSD. Seems fine for me.

Isn't that slow as hell?

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 01:21:

I do want to add a NIC, it's probably the upgrade I want to do most but it seems like such a crapshoot to get one that will work. I'll have to try to find one that is confirmed to work with my MOBO. The mobo only has one ISA slot and it's being used for the sound card so it will need to be PCI.

Wait... Your board only has 1 ISA slot? Is was under the assumption it has 3 PCI and 3 ISA.
How many slots do you have? 1 AGP, 4 PCI, 1 AMR, 1 ISA?
If you have more PCI slots, finding a NIC for cheap is much easier.
3COM should work fine.

pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 17:20:

Na. You can get a GeForce2 MX for less than 10 bucks.

Reply 38 of 42, by pinesal

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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-28, 20:14:

Wait... Your board only has 1 ISA slot? Is was under the assumption it has 3 PCI and 3 ISA.
How many slots do you have? 1 AGP, 4 PCI, 1 AMR, 1 ISA?
If you have more PCI slots, finding a NIC for cheap is much easier.

Oh.... I guess I mis-remembered. It does have 3 ISA slots.

I just now got back from Goodwill and found a brand new factory sealed Linksys LNE100TX. I am going to talk about it in another thread Re: FIC VA-503+ and K6-2+/570. I read in one post here where someone couldn't get it to work on the same motherboard that I have. I could not find any other reports of this card working or not working so can't rule out defects or user error. Unless you know something about it?

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Hang out in the 90s with me on Twitch: The 90s Retro Gaming https://twitch.tv/90snick_pinesal
Retro Battlestation:
FIC VA-503+
AMD K6-2+ @ 600mhz
ATI Rage Fury 16MB
128mb PC100 RAM
137GB SSD
Windows 98

Reply 39 of 42, by Meatball

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pinesal wrote on 2022-02-28, 20:42:
Oh.... I guess I mis-remembered. It does have 3 ISA slots. […]
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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-02-28, 20:14:

Wait... Your board only has 1 ISA slot? Is was under the assumption it has 3 PCI and 3 ISA.
How many slots do you have? 1 AGP, 4 PCI, 1 AMR, 1 ISA?
If you have more PCI slots, finding a NIC for cheap is much easier.

Oh.... I guess I mis-remembered. It does have 3 ISA slots.

I just now got back from Goodwill and found a brand new factory sealed Linksys LNE100TX. I am going to talk about it in another thread Re: FIC VA-503+ and K6-2+/570. I read in one post here where someone couldn't get it to work on the same motherboard that I have. I could not find any other reports of this card working or not working so can't rule out defects or user error. Unless you know something about it?

nic.jpg

I'm guessing the other person didn't use the correct driver. There are so many revisions of this NIC, yet it's still named LNE100TX, your head will spin. Without the right driver capable of supporting the designated version, the card won't work. Similar experiences are to be had with an ATI Rage3D, Rage128, etc.

You have the CD (or floppy), so I'm betting you'll be fine.

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