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PS/2 Keyboard for 5 Pin DIN?

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First post, by Rikintosh

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I wonder if anyone has ever converted a ps/2 keyboard directly to din 5 pin (I don't know the correct name, I mean the standard AT keyboard of computers from the 90's and older)

I also don't mean adapters that convert ps/2 keyboard to "din", I mean how can I make an adaptation at a physical level, what's different about the two standards? Communicate using TCL? Is it the same protocol? I was dreaming of a hypothetical world, something like soldering some resistors and a din connector on a ps/2 keyboard...

I searched the internet and got information about the PS/2 standard but I didn't find anything about din I have a bunch of old keyboards that go perfectly with an old computer, but they're PS/2, and I didn't want to have to dig around for an adapter on the internet, as they're hard to find around here, and maybe I could build the adapter myself

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Reply 1 of 20, by BitWrangler

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IBM model Ms could have either an AT 5pin or PS/2 cable on, was detachable with a phone/network type jack, and you could just swap AT or PS/2 cords over. Since there used to be tons of PS/2 cords around back in the day and few AT ones, I bought 5 pin DIN plugs and just chopped the PS/2 connector off and wired them on.

The converters are just direct wired, no active parts, but you should test your PS/2 keyboards to see if they are happy on AT with one before you chop the plug off and put a 5 Pin DIN on.

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Reply 2 of 20, by Doornkaat

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Only 8088/8086 machines use a different protocol. 286 and up only use a different physical connector, everything else is the same as PS/2. You can simply cut off the PS/2 connector and replace it with a 5 pin DIN connector.
Here is a guide going the other way (converting a keyboard with DIN plug to PS/2). It even has pinouts.

Reply 3 of 20, by Rikintosh

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Amazingly, after I posted, I continued searching and found the same page, thank you very much

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Reply 5 of 20, by Cuttoon

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In official parlance:
The one is a "5-pin DIN" and the other one is a "6-pin mini-DIN that happened to be used by IBM in their PS/2 line of computers and will therefore be forever known as the PS/2 plug".

The signal is entirely the same, hence the many, dirt cheap passive adapters in both directions lying about.

The smaller socket made sense for compact OEM mainbords as it took up less space on a crowded backplate that incorporated serial, game and parallel ports, mouse port (also a mini-DIN) and often VGA.
(it also was roughly the same height as those d-sub connectors, arranging them all in one line and looking much cleaner...)
Yet, the older AT standard for generic motherboards held on for over ten more years, slowly being replaced by ATX from 1998 onwards.

I recently contemplated to solder DIN plugs on PS/2 keyboards, to create a cleaner solution without that silly adapter.
But then I realized that a decent soldering plug on Ebay may costs more than one of those adaptors, so...

Last edited by Cuttoon on 2022-03-11, 14:53. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 6 of 20, by weedeewee

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cuttoon, the ps2 connector is 6 pin, not five.

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Reply 8 of 20, by BitWrangler

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By the way, if you're ordering 5 Pin DIN plugs, be aware there is more than one variation. The right one is the 5 pin DIN with 180 degree pin spread 5/180 ... yes that means it's the same as common audio and midi DIN plugs. A short audio DIN extender may also work as a keyboard extender, but be sure it's wired straight through and is not a crossover, and don't use one that's very long. Also beware of getting high end audio connectors with a screw together shell as there's not a big enough relief hole on PCs for them to fit.

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Reply 9 of 20, by Cuttoon

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BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-11, 14:47:

By the way, if you're ordering 5 Pin DIN plugs, be aware there is more than one variation. The right one is the 5 pin DIN with 180 degree pin spread 5/180 ... yes that means it's the same as common audio and midi DIN plugs. A short audio DIN extender may also work as a keyboard extender, but be sure it's wired straight through and is not a crossover, and don't use one that's very long. Also beware of getting high end audio connectors with a screw together shell as there's not a big enough relief hole on PCs for them to fit.

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Reply 10 of 20, by Rikintosh

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Yes I knew that there are several patterns, and I also knew about ps/2. Here in my country, a 4-pin din connector was widely used to connect microphones (for microphones that the cable detaches). If I'm not mistaken, DIN is an abbreviation for a German body that created these standards after the war.

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Reply 11 of 20, by Doornkaat

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Originally it meant Deutsche Industrie-Norm (German industrial standard) but apparently DIN now is short for the institute that governs the standard: Deutsches Institut für Normung (roughly: German institute for standardisation).
The Deutsche Industrie-Norm was put in place to standardise production during WW1.

Reply 12 of 20, by Azarien

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 11:20:

mouse port (also a mini-DIN)

To this day I cannot remember which one (green or purple) is mouse and which is keyboard. I wish those two ports were interchangeable (i.e. mouse vs keyboard autodetection) like USB.

A mini-DIN connector (although a 9 pin version) is also used for volume controllers in Creative speaker sets.

Reply 13 of 20, by weedeewee

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Azarien,
I've got an msi 1155 board, i think, that has one ps2 port for either mouse or keyboard. kinda annoying since it's one or the other, not both at the same time.
then there are the old ibm ps2 computers which had 2 ps2 ports, and it didn't matter to which one you hooked the keyboard or mouse.
and then there's the compaq armada m700 laptop, with one ps2 port for which you could use a splitter cable and connect both a keyboard and mouse due to the 'unused' pins on the normal mainboard connection being used for the secondary port.

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Reply 14 of 20, by BitWrangler

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Need to have a mnemonic like purple-qwertle green-drags screen, or something.

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Reply 15 of 20, by Rikintosh

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Azarien wrote on 2022-03-12, 17:33:
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-11, 11:20:

mouse port (also a mini-DIN)

To this day I cannot remember which one (green or purple) is mouse and which is keyboard. I wish those two ports were interchangeable (i.e. mouse vs keyboard autodetection) like USB.

A mini-DIN connector (although a 9 pin version) is also used for volume controllers in Creative speaker sets.

Purple is the keyboard port, green is the mouse port.

In my experiences, plugging a mouse into either one would work, but the keyboard would only work on its port (or was it the other way around, I don't remember)

Microsoft seems to have invented something that was just called BUS, I don't know if they really did, but I've only seen microsoft mice use it. It was very similar to the small DIN, but had additional pins, and required a card connected to the isa or pci slot to work. Anyway, I used serial mice almost my whole life, so I jumped straight to USB when microsoft released a white optical mouse with a gray underside, which lit a red light, I really like it, and I have it to this day. It has a very low DPI for use these days, but is perfect for computers that use resolutions up to 1024x768 I believe it is a rebranded logitech mouse, but it is my favorite mouse.

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Reply 16 of 20, by Sphere478

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Someone more familiar could make a pic showing the wire colors, and pin association in a quick diagram to help with people trying to convert.

Doornkaat wrote on 2022-03-11, 04:55:

Only 8088/8086 machines use a different protocol. 286 and up only use a different physical connector, everything else is the same as PS/2. You can simply cut off the PS/2 connector and replace it with a 5 pin DIN connector.
Here is a guide going the other way (converting a keyboard with DIN plug to PS/2). It even has pinouts.

This is helpful though, and kinda what I was saying, there are more details in that above link

I’d make one to make it easier to understand if I were in front of a desktop atm.

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Last edited by Sphere478 on 2022-03-12, 22:22. Edited 1 time in total.

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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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Reply 17 of 20, by Rikintosh

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-12, 22:12:

Someone more familiar could make a pic showing the wire colors, and pin association in a quick diagram to help with people trying to convert.

This is helpful though, and kinda what I was saying, there are more details in that above link

I’d make one to make it easier to understand if I were in front of a desktop atm.

Luckily I took apart a din keyboard yesterday to clean it up, and I think I can do that because it's still open here

Take a look at my retro blog: https://ricardoramosinformatica.blogspot.com/
My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfRUbxkBmEihBEkIK32Hilg

Reply 18 of 20, by Sphere478

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Rikintosh wrote on 2022-03-12, 22:19:
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-12, 22:12:

Someone more familiar could make a pic showing the wire colors, and pin association in a quick diagram to help with people trying to convert.

This is helpful though, and kinda what I was saying, there are more details in that above link

I’d make one to make it easier to understand if I were in front of a desktop atm.

Luckily I took apart a din keyboard yesterday to clean it up, and I think I can do that because it's still open here

Yeah something in paint with different color lines drawn between the pins would be good.

Assuming wire color is standardized in these keyboards. If not all meaning is lost 🤣

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 19 of 20, by weedeewee

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forget about the colors.

depending on manufacturer, whatever's available at the time and the overall color of the universe at the time the keyboards were made, the cable colors going to the connectors will be different.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
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Do not ask Why !