VOGONS


Reply 22 of 35, by Cuttoon

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Blavius wrote on 2022-03-16, 08:14:

and IF we don't end up with WW3

I didn't mean to be that pessimistic - just a way of saying, don't forget that any value attached to these things is utterly subjective and volatile.

Might even be something good that ruins the prices.
Like, the pandemic being officially over and people starting to spend their money on restaurants again. Imagine that 😀

I like jumpers.

Reply 23 of 35, by Radical Vision

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Huh was looking in google for some info for ASUS Agea PI card, and saw this thread but did think is old one but naa 2022 interesting...

Just happened that i found old PC shop, and the guy seems have some old interesting stuff and there is an ASUS AGEA card it cost only 8 euro.....
Guess i will use that card in 939 build or something from that era..

That damn card cost 200+ euros in greedBAY, guess not for me...

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Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 1.4/ DX34R-U/ Voodoo V 5.5K
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Reply 24 of 35, by Radical Vision

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Cuttoon wrote on 2022-03-16, 19:59:
I didn't mean to be that pessimistic - just a way of saying, don't forget that any value attached to these things is utterly sub […]
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Blavius wrote on 2022-03-16, 08:14:

and IF we don't end up with WW3

I didn't mean to be that pessimistic - just a way of saying, don't forget that any value attached to these things is utterly subjective and volatile.

Might even be something good that ruins the prices.
Like, the pandemic being officially over and people starting to spend their money on restaurants again. Imagine that 😀

Well as some say "everything cost, as much as someone is willing to pay" and i believe in that as well... I may not pay 200$/eu for an Agea card, but someone will.. Same with the Voodoo cards some ppl spend alot of money for them, meanwhile mine costed me pocket change.... But my whole collection cost me no money, but that is for another topic....

Blavius wrote on 2022-03-15, 21:24:

I found an Ageia Physx card for sale on my local craigslist for 30 euro's. Compared to the $184 being asked on greedbay it's a steal, but I'm a bit on the fence if its even worth the 30 honestly. The list of games that support the hardware Physx cards (so, not running on a GPU) is meager, and for most of those also seem to work with the later GPU implementation.
I remember geeking out over it when it came out (2005), but as a cash strapped student I couldn't afford one. Does anyone have one of these in their retro rig? Do you get any use out of it?

Of Course !!! After all let me picture you one thing. You dont need that Agea card, BUT the thing cost like 200 euros in greedBAY. So the best thing you can do is 2 things:
1. keep the damn card and have some unique collector`s item and feel nice
2. you dont need the damn card, you sell ti instead for like 20$ cheaper then other one from AD, and with the money you search and buy something your enthusiast heart desires...

Last edited by Radical Vision on 2022-03-31, 16:21. Edited 1 time in total.

Mah systems retro, old, newer (Radical stuff)
W3680 4.5/ GA-x58 UD7/ R9 280x
K7 2.6/ NF7-S/ HD3850
IBM x2 P3 1.4/ DX34R-U/ Voodoo V 5.5K
Cmq P2 450/ GA-BX2000/ V2 SLI
IBM PC365
Cmq DeskPRO 486/33
IBM PS/2 Model 56
SPS IntelleXT 8088

Reply 25 of 35, by imi

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TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-15, 23:27:

Heh I do own one myself but didn’t pay 30 euro for it, today I wouldn’t bother with it for more than 10 bucks.

well that's fun to say and all, but I don't think you can get them any cheaper anymore unless you're really really lucky :p

Reply 26 of 35, by TrashPanda

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imi wrote on 2022-03-31, 15:10:
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-15, 23:27:

Heh I do own one myself but didn’t pay 30 euro for it, today I wouldn’t bother with it for more than 10 bucks.

well that's fun to say and all, but I don't think you can get them any cheaper anymore unless you're really really lucky :p

I mean if you are in the market for one then its understandable that you might be willing to pay extra for it, the market also expects this and well ...drives prices up accordingly.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 27 of 35, by RandomStranger

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I think there are some techdemos and games that work better with a real PhysX card rather than an G8x+ GPU, but those are uncommon. I think there was a list somewhere maybe on Wikipedia.

I also remember that on early driver G8x GPUs worked together with non-Nvidia GPUs as PhysX accelerators and it was later blocked.

I see the appeal and I'd get one myself for a fair price, but the cheap ones go for something like 40€. Maybe if it's am ASUS P1 in box with all accessories. Otherwise I wouldn't go above 20€. Especially for a Medion OEM card.

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Reply 28 of 35, by rasz_pl

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Ageia was a scam. Theory sounded nice and It worked in principle, aka PhD project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_process … ng_unit#History offloading physics calculations to FPGA, but actual ASIC product was slower than CPU 😀

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2001/4 Faster in provided test, slower in real game.

This of course was ideal for Nvidia, they revel in scams as long as they can hamper competition. PhysX library was famously compiled to use x87 FPU when every CPU on the market had vectorized floating point units (SSE) https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2010/07/did-nv … to-spite-intel/ NVidia is very good at following the road paved by Creative and their EAX. They invent bullshit proprietary APIs and gatekeep (physX, Cuda, G-Sync, gameworks https://wccftech.com/fight-nvidias-gameworks- … program-tragic/).

In the end PhysX got relegated to generating visual garbage on the screen (particles, trash in the wind, sometimes cloth simulation). To this day afaik there are no games that just cant run/run well without hardware PhysX.

Last edited by rasz_pl on 2022-04-01, 10:07. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 29 of 35, by TrashPanda

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In the end it was Havok that ended Physx, why bother with a proprietary solution when Havok could do it almost as good with less performance hit and lower hardware requirements ..as an added bonus you didn't need a nVidia GPU to use Havok.

Physx hasn't been updated or touched by nVidia much at all since they bought it out, I think the last major update to it was in 2019 and it was not that big of an update but rather minor fixes and changes to make it fully compatible with modern RTX/Tensor cores, other than that it hasn't changed at all. It was honestly a wasted purchase by nVidia since Physx support in games right now is not huge, IIRC Borderland's 1/2/3 fully support it, Metro Exodus and a few others like Banner lord.

https://list.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_games_wi … d_PhysX_support

Looks like from that list a lot of Unreal Engine based games have support for it, personally I find Havok to be a better implementation of physics in games, not quite as on point as Physx but certainly good enough for games where accuracy isn't needed.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 30 of 35, by RandomStranger

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To be fair, they are probably focusing with PhysX to the professional market rather than gaming. The professional market loves proprietary crap and accurate physics simulation is more important there then in gaming.

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Reply 31 of 35, by rasz_pl

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RandomStranger wrote on 2022-04-01, 09:46:

To be fair, they are probably focusing with PhysX to the professional market rather than gaming. The professional market loves proprietary crap and accurate physics simulation is more important there then in gaming.

Professional market like what? Physx is just particles and cloth simulation, stuff that doesnt interact with player character - otherwise you couldnt run multiplayer games with some clients running "accelerated" and others in deliberately gimped FPU mode. CFD is absolutely out of the question, nothing serious uses physx. If anything professional software ships with cuda solver plugins, like Ansys https://www.ansys.com/content/dam/it-solution … ies-2019-r2.pdf

Reply 32 of 35, by The Serpent Rider

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There was an interesting example when Digital Extremes dropped old PhysX particles all-together in Warframe.

Last edited by The Serpent Rider on 2022-04-01, 13:07. Edited 1 time in total.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 33 of 35, by RandomStranger

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rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-01, 10:19:
RandomStranger wrote on 2022-04-01, 09:46:

To be fair, they are probably focusing with PhysX to the professional market rather than gaming. The professional market loves proprietary crap and accurate physics simulation is more important there then in gaming.

Professional market like what? Physx is just particles and cloth simulation, stuff that doesnt interact with player character - otherwise you couldnt run multiplayer games with some clients running "accelerated" and others in deliberately gimped FPU mode. CFD is absolutely out of the question, nothing serious uses physx. If anything professional software ships with cuda solver plugins, like Ansys https://www.ansys.com/content/dam/it-solution … ies-2019-r2.pdf

Autodesk software as far as I know has PhysX support.

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Reply 34 of 35, by swaaye

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PPU and GPU physics was so limited in what it could do. I don't remember anything they did being particularly interesting. Fog and water made of big particle balls, and flying debris... I don't know if it could ever be as flexible as CPU physics because of the PCIe bus being in the middle. And maybe GPUs are too limited in what runs fast on them.