PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-22, 15:14:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 10:14:

This glue becoming conductive over time is quite concerning. Which glue is it specifically and how does one recognize it? Any re […]
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PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-22, 08:03:

Pretty much. These older units were usually known because of the glue used being a issue (becomes conductive), and the caps bein […]
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Pretty much. These older units were usually known because of the glue used being a issue (becomes conductive), and the caps being pretty bad (although they're not the only ones to use them in the early 2000s, IIRC Seasonic did too.).

Here's an example of glue blowing up stuff in Enermax units:
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php? … ht=Enermax+glue

I had one of those 365W units as well (EG365P/VE) but unfortunately by the time I had bought it second hand, the glue had already done damage. Ended up parting out the unit, and various parts have gone into other PSUs (main caps went into an beefy nJoy 500W unit, golden grille went into a spare Premier/DEER casing I have kept for rebuild purposes, and a few other stuff went into various PSUs over the years) so not a very big loss for me, especially since I had gotten a Seasonic SS-351HT shortly after the Enermax.

This glue becoming conductive over time is quite concerning. Which glue is it specifically and how does one recognize it?
Any recommendations on what glue to use? (and preferably one that is not too expensive, one that is effective and/or one that is relatively easy to work with).

I don't think I have any Enermax PSUs, are there any other models perhaps affected? Or did it affect a certain era or vintage in certain years?

It's a kind of tan glue which as years go by somehow starts getting conductive. It was used to probably hold the MOSFETs and rectifiers during manufacturing.

FSP also had this issue as far as I remember with some of their older units from early to mid 2000s.

How can I recognize it? You happen to have any pics of this?

FSP, dang that sucks as I rather like FSP PSUs of that era otherwise.

Is this glue cleanable?

I guess I could dig out a whole lot of my own older FSPs and upload the pics to vogons for others to check out 😋

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 21:31:

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-22, 14:15:

Alter, please don't misquote me. I make it a habit not to speculate about die Netzgeräte. :D (you must have copypasted the wrong […]
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RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-04-22, 06:25:

You're goddamn right!

Alter, please don't misquote me. I make it a habit not to speculate about die Netzgeräte. 😁
(you must have copypasted the wrong quote string...)

RaiderOfLostVoodoo wrote on 2022-04-22, 06:25:

Are those caps really that bad? It's definitely worth preserving.

Oh well, and I have a MSI KT3-Ultra and and Geforce 4 4200 that were violently sent to the eternal hunting grounds by an Enermax dual fan, as mentioned several times before.
To elaborate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aizEamsB-mk

This youtube video doesn't elaborate anything. It's just a stupid 8 second meme oneliner.
(and yes, it's literally 8 seconds)

Actually, with all due respect, that is a very smart eight second meme oneliner.
I assume RaiderOfLostVoodoo gets it and if you are not just trolling but genuinely out of your depth with that degree of irony - maybe the online world just isn't for you.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 21:34:

How can I recognize it? You happen to have any pics of this? […]
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PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-22, 15:14:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 10:14:

This glue becoming conductive over time is quite concerning. Which glue is it specifically and how does one recognize it?
Any recommendations on what glue to use? (and preferably one that is not too expensive, one that is effective and/or one that is relatively easy to work with).

I don't think I have any Enermax PSUs, are there any other models perhaps affected? Or did it affect a certain era or vintage in certain years?

It's a kind of tan glue which as years go by somehow starts getting conductive. It was used to probably hold the MOSFETs and rectifiers during manufacturing.

FSP also had this issue as far as I remember with some of their older units from early to mid 2000s.

How can I recognize it? You happen to have any pics of this?

FSP, dang that sucks as I rather like FSP PSUs of that era otherwise.

Is this glue cleanable?

I guess I could dig out a whole lot of my own older FSPs and upload the pics to vogons for others to check out 😋

Photo isn't from a FSP PSU (Samsung 245bw LCD) but it's more or less the same thing. That glue is used to hold components down (and unfortunately Enermax applied it over the MOSFETs as well.) and with time, it can start getting conductive.
Fortunately, it's cleanable, you'll just have quite a hard time cleaning it up (it's pretty hard when it gets conductive as it also hardens over time) but it's doable.

FSP's glue is more or less similar to this - the one I have scrapped had its glue already do damage to the main transistors, and I could tell it started getting bad as the color was a rather darker yellow, as if something burned there. This was years ago and I have since scrapped it. The only cheapo units I've seen the same glue being used inside are Deer/L&C/Allied. Horrible to clean but it can be done.

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-22, 21:55:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 21:31:

Cuttoon wrote on 2022-04-22, 14:15:

Alter, please don't misquote me. I make it a habit not to speculate about die Netzgeräte. :D (you must have copypasted the wrong […]
Show full quote

Alter, please don't misquote me. I make it a habit not to speculate about die Netzgeräte. 😁
(you must have copypasted the wrong quote string...)

Oh well, and I have a MSI KT3-Ultra and and Geforce 4 4200 that were violently sent to the eternal hunting grounds by an Enermax dual fan, as mentioned several times before.
To elaborate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aizEamsB-mk

This youtube video doesn't elaborate anything. It's just a stupid 8 second meme oneliner.
(and yes, it's literally 8 seconds)

Actually, with all due respect, that is a very smart eight second meme oneliner.
I assume RaiderOfLostVoodoo gets it and if you are not just trolling but genuinely out of your depth with that degree of irony - maybe the online world just isn't for you.

Do you even know what 'to elaborate something' means?
And Cuttoon please stop having a hard time accepting criticism.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-23, 06:38:

Photo isn't from a FSP PSU (Samsung 245bw LCD) but it's more or less the same thing. That glue is used to hold components down […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-22, 21:34:

How can I recognize it? You happen to have any pics of this? […]
Show full quote

PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-22, 15:14:

It's a kind of tan glue which as years go by somehow starts getting conductive. It was used to probably hold the MOSFETs and rectifiers during manufacturing.

FSP also had this issue as far as I remember with some of their older units from early to mid 2000s.

How can I recognize it? You happen to have any pics of this?

FSP, dang that sucks as I rather like FSP PSUs of that era otherwise.

Is this glue cleanable?

I guess I could dig out a whole lot of my own older FSPs and upload the pics to vogons for others to check out 😋

Photo isn't from a FSP PSU (Samsung 245bw LCD) but it's more or less the same thing. That glue is used to hold components down (and unfortunately Enermax applied it over the MOSFETs as well.) and with time, it can start getting conductive.
Fortunately, it's cleanable, you'll just have quite a hard time cleaning it up (it's pretty hard when it gets conductive as it also hardens over time) but it's doable.

FSP's glue is more or less similar to this - the one I have scrapped had its glue already do damage to the main transistors, and I could tell it started getting bad as the color was a rather darker yellow, as if something burned there. This was years ago and I have since scrapped it. The only cheapo units I've seen the same glue being used inside are Deer/L&C/Allied. Horrible to clean but it can be done.

You mean the brownish-looking glue?
Cheers, this gives me a better pic of what to look out for. Seems this could really become a project in its own right. I can imagine it being better to just scrap such a unit.
A shame really, but in the end it is what it is.

If I have any such units or units of other brands build by FSP and chances are there that I have since FSP is probably the manufacturer of most of the old PSUs I have, since it was really common to find apart from the really El Cheapo brands, so to say.

Well, I'd remove glue even if it isn't brown yet. About when it starts yellowing you're gonna have to start removing it - so if there's any yellow-ish glue in those FSPs, remove it at all costs. Does more harm than good leaving it there.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-04-23, 10:40:

Well, I'd remove glue even if it isn't brown yet. About when it starts yellowing you're gonna have to start removing it - so if there's any yellow-ish glue in those FSPs, remove it at all costs. Does more harm than good leaving it there.

Definitely gonna have to look into this, especially if it can damage the PSU itself. It has some superficial similarities to those Varta batteries in older AT boards.

Maybe it's a stupid question, but wouldn't it be easy to verify if glue has become conductive by using a multimeter?

As far as I know, nobody measured the glue if it's conductive with a DMM/multimeter.
The only way it has been found it gets conductive is that once it gets brown, it develops corrosive properties and somehow starts conducting electricity.
The FSP I had died because of the glue becoming conductive (and blowing up a transistor - this FSP was a half-bridge topology unit so it had 2x BJTs + 2N60 standby MOSFET) but not to the extent where it had started being corrosive as well. It was only very tan in color and was very crumbly.

Ever since then I actively try and avoid early 2000s FSP and Enermax units unless they're 2007 or newer. Less worry about the glue. Oh, and they're kilometers easier to service than the old units and don't get too hot. I've had two units for a while - one was a FSP300-60GTP dated ~2004 or so, the other a rather modern FSP300-60EP (Acer OEM it seems) from 2007. The 60GTP not only had glue on the brink of becoming conductive - it also had a myriad of blown secondary caps, and one of the load resistors (not sure which, it was either 3.3 or 5v.) literally cooked itself so hard I had to remove it for my own safety of running it. The 60GTP was barely even run. Has Teapo secondary caps, none of the tan glue crap.

The only nitpick I have with the 60EP is it features almost exclusively SATA. The only things I've seen besides those were a Molex and a berg, and that's it.

So I opened up a Highlight PSU (FSP 250 - 60GT).
3.3V 14.0A
5Vsb 0.85A
5V 25.0A
-5V 0.3A
12V 5.0A
-12V 1.0A

It has glue in it, but it's hard for me to tell if it's the bad glue since I barely know what I'm looking for xD
It seems only slightly yellowed and is semi-transparent and not the caramel-colored glue you showed in your pics.
It doesn't seem to have corroded anything and most of it is used on top of components. Only near the main caps is there some touching the main PCB.
The glue is actually still kinda soft, kinda like semi-dried-up chewing gum or something but it's completely non-sticky.
And it's night time which also doesn't help. Perhaps I could take some pics tomorrow, but I'd rather use a proper camera (if it still works 🤣).

The glue seems to been used mostly to prevent parts from moving/vibrating.

Kinda surprised that none of the caps seem to have swollen up. The main caps seem to be Rubycon.

I'm sure I have more contemporary PSUs with FSP part numbers. This might become interesting in a way 😜
I picked this one since it happened to have been downstairs so I didn't need to excavate it from the attic 😜

Next is an AOpen branded PSU. 12cm fan
Model number is AO300-12APNF
3.3V 28.0A
5V 30.0A
12V 18.0A
5Vsb 2.0A
-5V 0.3A
-12V 0.8A

This PSU took some more effort to open as I had to remove the fan from the PSU cover, then move the power cables out of the plastic ring so I could unwind the fan and finally have a better look inside.
This PSU seems to also have the semi-transparent glue I saw in the previous PSU I opened up, but also seem to have a second kind of glue which is a completely opaque which has more of a creme colored color.
This creme-colored glue looks less blobby than the transparent glue, more flat as if it was more like a liquid before it solidified.
I suppose this cream colored glue may the glue you referred to, PCBytes?

So I did some more research and (amongst others) found these links which give a better insight at what is happening here.
https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threa … move-it.280006/
https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threa … t-boards.61364/
https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threa … s-again.238455/
https://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34692
https://www.electronicspoint.com/forums/threa … e-stuff.117396/

Googling "conductive brown glue" reveals more info.
I never knew this was even a thing, but I'm glad I'm aware of this now.

Apparently it's a glue that starts to change when it gets heated up, starts getting browner and at some point becomes more brittle, conductive and corrosive.
Apparently heat (and perhaps humidity) is the main trigger for this change in this glue. Apparently this glue can slowly become more conductive over time (usually years).
Quite the revelation.

I found a (quite lengthy, but informative) youtube vid of someone trying to repair a PSU that's affected by this glue. It's thus far the best vid I found that shows the glue, in different stages.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB2TTVG_-Wg
The affected PSU was apparently made by Seasonic.

Now that you mentioned it, that semi-modular PSU I've posted earlier also have gunks of dark yellow glue.

I have Nexus NX-4090 that is supposed to be unused and I believe it since it had no dust at all and looks very clean. I was going to use it as AT power supply replacement but turns out it has that yellow glue. I assume it it the same that eventually turns brown. Since this is old but unused, the glue is still yellow. There are two brown dots that can be seen in one of the pictures.

Should I just try to remove the glue? There is a lot of it so it won't be easy.

aitotat wrote on 2022-04-26, 13:52:

I have Nexus NX-4090 that is supposed to be unused and I believe it since it had no dust at all and looks very clean. I was going to use it as AT power supply replacement but turns out it has that yellow glue. I assume it it the same that eventually turns brown. Since this is old but unused, the glue is still yellow. There are two brown dots that can be seen in one of the pictures.

Should I just try to remove the glue? There is a lot of it so it won't be easy.

You can always try. I posted a youtube vid a bit earlier in this thread of someone removing this yellow stuff from a PSU.
Some of the glue in your PSU seems to have become a bit more brownish (on top of some of the caps near where the power cables exit the PSU to into the case of the PC).

I haven't had the time to take some pics yet (needed until yesterday to charge the batteries of my camera and I really needed to divert some attention and time to something more urgent).
And I just got home and am tired and tomorrow is kingsday (which is basically a national holiday with loads of people selling all of their old stuff) and I'm really looking forward to visiting it again after 2 years of non-starts due to covid 😀

does anyone know of tester that will interface with PSU with like a digital readout of tre watts output? there are the cheap power good testers but I haven't seen anything that'll tell real world wattage!

zapbuzz wrote on 2022-04-26, 17:12:

does anyone know of tester that will interface with PSU with like a digital readout of tre watts output? there are the cheap power good testers but I haven't seen anything that'll tell real world wattage!

If nothing fancier, you can buy 300 Watt worth of 12V halogen lamps for about five bucks and then attach a multimeter with a LCD display that will then provide you with a digital readout on how much Volts the unit will supply under a significant load on the 12V lane.
Slightly more complicated with 5 V as lamps rated at 5 V aren't readily available, but you get the idea?
What else do you expect any gizzmo to tell you? Fancier test equipment will show you how much distortion or ripple is left in the DC Voltage.
But beyond that?
Blood group, belief in a higher power, opinion on GoT S8?

Bought this recased Spire Jewel 380W for peanuts.

Someone has already been in there before, as those Panasonic CE primaries are not original to it.

The photo is a bit old now, as I have recapped the standby and secondary section, as well as completed the mains filtering.
I have also removed the PPFC coil (I found no difference in running PSUs with and without passive PFC - active PFC is a whole 'nother animal...) in order to complete the mains filtering (even if it's done at the receptacle as well)