This is exactly what you keep doing, every single time.
Once again we tell you the flaws and how to improve them, but again for the manyeth time you say "0xCats and others are at fault", "Sphere is the Victim here".
And again I get the exact same response.

I give up on you.

Tl;dr I can mod CPUs, therefore I'm a God and accept no criticism.

Only just seen this thread. I hope you are successful in developing an interposer that supports the majority of socket 1-3 CPUs in the most basic of socket 1 boards (although I do note you specify socket 3). It's a shame I can't afford to get PCBs and components to test prototypes, as that would interest me. Just please accept the criticism from people who want to help.

0xCats wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:29:

This is exactly what you keep doing, every single time. Once again we tell you the flaws and how to improve them, but again for […]
Show full quote

This is exactly what you keep doing, every single time.
Once again we tell you the flaws and how to improve them, but again for the manyeth time you say "0xCats and others are at fault", "Sphere is the Victim here".
And again I get the exact same response.

I give up on you.

You veil your meanness in your advice and say you are trying to help.

You could have said everything you said in a different non condescending tone and still have been helpful.

Now this trash is all over the build thread. Thanks. Hopefully a mod will come along and clean this up.

And the notion that you come in here with replies like that and expect me not to respond to them with anything but “yes master, sorry I suck and will give up” and when I don’t I’m the bad guy is total BS.

I think it is best that you do give up on me, because I woke up this morning hoping to see some replies about how the pins were right or wrong and to make adjustments if needed. Instead I get that and you don’t know what you are doing, your work is trash.

debs3759 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:37:

Only just seen this thread. I hope you are successful in developing an interposer that supports the majority of socket 1-3 CPUs in the most basic of socket 1 boards (although I do note you specify socket 3). It's a shame I can't afford to get PCBs and components to test prototypes, as that would interest me. Just please accept the criticism from people who want to help.

In the design process one should always look at other points of view. Some things are mostly fundamental, like amp ratings, EMI, resistances etc. But often though the design doesn’t have only one path that it can take. Not disagreeing with anything that catsay posted here recently, I’m just speaking in general. It is possible to take some advice and not take some advice, and still create a successful design. There is often many approaches to a specific goal, I speak to this from my experience in many other projects and fields.

There is no such thing anymore really as a self taught person, many including catsay have helped me learn. Thank you for your help. None of us get anywhere without the help of others.

I’m going to leave it at this though, and let us move on? Agree?

Given the proposed features list, do you have a suggestion for the name of the thread? I’d say this particular project is more in research stage than anything. Perhaps soon we can say it’s alpha. So renaming it is totally on the table 😀

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

Catsay touts himself as a infallible force and him and a few others continually discourage me from even trying all the time on discord.

I do not, but you keep blaming others, and then coming right back to that discord asking for basic input and then again dismissing the details.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

Yet on several instances I have had to correct him and the others. I am in no way infallible. And am learning and being corrected myself often. And welcome it! I welcome improvements to my projects. But this is not the way to help.

Your repeated actions actively contradict your statement of being open to feedback. You are using this once again to falsely defer responsibility.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

The literally only thing I was asking was pin spacing. I referenced the pentium overdrive spec sheet which seemed to indicate .2” pin spacing. As for the pad hole size I set that to .016” on purpose. My latest shim tweaker is prototyping that change to attempt to make press fir work, which was a success on the processor interposer tweaker at a different size.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

Can I do better? Sure I would love to. I love learning.

Actions before words.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

Should you make posts saying I am stupid, your work is trash and you shouldn’t try? You guys are mean. And I don’t deserve the way you treat me.

I said no such thing, nor did I or others of the TRW call you stupid. However the work you have produced to date is objectively and demonstrably flawed and of poor quality. And it is worth pointing this out both for your sake and those who observe such who do not have the technical expertise to judge for themselves.
However you keep making false allegations towards us and despite this we keep trying to help you. This speaks for itself.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

I make nothing off these, I am literally pouring days and weeks of my time into bringing these to the community and this is what I get for my trouble.

I do not get paid to help you or provide advice to your requests either, this is a charitable transaction on a public forum.
I would expect and welcome the same response from others here if I published objectively poor designs.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

Early on facing this I nearly quit before any of them had been realized in physical working form.

Had I listened to you they never would have been.

Also, had I listened to people like you, I never would have found the k6-2+ To 3+ mod or the ability of the overdrive to work in smp in the primary socket. You have said the mods don’t work on my devices without realizing that there were threads literally about those mods which I had to show you because you were unfamiliar and I explained how they work. No thank you, no apology, just more of this. You showed no understanding of how the bf pull ups and downs work and again there called me stupid as well.

I cannot be guilted into not being honest.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:51:

You veil your meanness in your advice and say you are trying to help. […]
Show full quote

0xCats wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:29:

This is exactly what you keep doing, every single time. Once again we tell you the flaws and how to improve them, but again for […]
Show full quote

This is exactly what you keep doing, every single time.
Once again we tell you the flaws and how to improve them, but again for the manyeth time you say "0xCats and others are at fault", "Sphere is the Victim here".
And again I get the exact same response.

I give up on you.

You veil your meanness in your advice and say you are trying to help.

You could have said everything you said in a different non condescending tone and still have been helpful.

Now this trash is all over the build thread. Thanks. Hopefully a mod will come along and clean this up.

And the notion that you come in here with replies like that and expect me not to respond to them with anything but “yes master, sorry I suck and will give up” and when I don’t I’m the bad guy is total BS.

I think it is best that you do give up on me, because I woke up this morning hoping to see some replies about how the pins were right or wrong and to make adjustments if needed. Instead I get that and you don’t know what you are doing, your work is trash.

The response to this could have been very simple.

"My mistake, my bad"

It is obvious you are a beginner.
You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of or sorry to me or anyone else for.
I am very direct and will express myself as clearly and without platitudes or false sincerity as possible.
I welcome moderator interaction. My posts stand on their own facts.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 14:20:

I kindly ask that you just be nice and stop berating me this isn’t the first time you have done this you literally rushed your voltage interposer project to announcement and used that announcement thread to smear my projects.

I have never done this to you or anyone else here for that matter. And I don’t deserve this.

Please stop.

I do not deny rushing my voltage interposer out early. I however again strongly disagree with your insinuation about smearing your projects.

Everyone deserves to hear the truth, I offered it charitably as requested.
However I will also Honor your request and provide no further feedback or interaction with you.

END

Yes, the pin spacing is indeed messed up. 😀 no matter, many corrections and adjustments to come. It’s a long process.

It seems I used the wrong value when I looked at the diagram. Thanks for confirming.

Thanks for the offer to use your footprint, I didn’t know you had that, and couldn’t find one in a search. but given circumstances it’s probably best that I make my own from scratch which is unfortunate. I really would love to use it, but it seems unwise at this point.

I had used the diagram further up in the datasheet, but it also shows I used the wrong value on second look.

Perfection does not come on the first sketch. 😀

footprint alpha 2

Still more work to do obviously.

-Gotta finish labeling the pins.

-Gotta decide pad size

-Gotta assign nets to the pads

-Socket 4 is officially off the list of possibilities after inspecting the pinouts. Not surprising as it's a 64 bit socket compared to the 32 bits of socket 1,2,3. Any tweaks for socket 4 will require its own project entirely.

I think it is best that you do give up on me, because I woke up this morning hoping to see some replies about how the pins were right or wrong and to make adjustments if needed. Instead I get that and you don’t know what you are doing, your work is trash.

Sphere, if this is how you treat criticism from others, and then proceed to tell me and the few others that we're mean, honestly I don't know what else to say. All 0xCats and I did was to try and explain you why certain things from your designs were objectively wrong, with backing evidence. And your response was every single time "you're mean", "my design is 100% functinonal".
All I can hope now is that other people will not destroy their retro HW with your flawed designs.

I officially refuse to help you anymore. This is just insulting.

That was paraphrasing that he said that about my work. I wasn't saying that about him. You are one of the people who does this to me I don't know what I have done to attract so much hate from you and him but you two are probably the most prominent

You are one of the people who does this to me I don't know what I have done to attract so much hate from you and him but you two are probably the most prominent

Your utter refusal to accept criticism (even though you say you're willing to learn, your actions do not reflect at all your intentions). I feel like I'm always speaking to a wall when I'm interacting with you.
Anyways, I've had about enough "polluting" your thread with my shit opinions.

It's not your project,

Your opinion isn't law, but I value genuine input without the condescending addons. and have countless times made changes based on feedback.

You can make your own version using my projects/ideas if you want, as you already have.

There are now, released versions of some my many projects that turned out exactly as I intended. and are working beautifully.

I am learning something new every day and know a lot more than I did when I started these projects. not a single person on the planet knows everything, even the "experts" can learn new things.

I got this same response when I started the now released ones. That are now working wonderfully.

It's the same crap over and over, you beat me down tell, me I can't do it. I do it, I start a new project you beat me down and tell me I'm too new/inexperienced to do the latest thing. I'm sick of it from you guys. you can't comment like other nice respectful people around here and make genuine suggestions without berating me in the same sentence and I've had enough.

Earlier, it was pointed out how there were errors in a alpha version of one of my projects. Say that again but slowly... alpha.... It'll get there. Give it time. 😀

Maybe my process is just annoying to you or something where I develop it in public in revisions rather than keeping the whole thing private until I think I can't do anymore to it. I like getting feedback and sharing and helping. I prefer this method. you don't have to reply if you don't want to.

Where is the mod?

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 08:27:

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper? […]
Show full quote

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper?

Here is a socket 3 footprint I threw together based on the pentium overdrive datasheet.

I need beta testers btw.
Need active feedback and engagement. or this probably won't get past alpha/beta

I have a literal buttload of socket 3 hardware, and so does fepioa. I could be one of the beta testers.

As for features:
- I think the most important thing on a socket 3 interposer is voltage. I think the ability to chose between 3.3, 3.45, 3.6 (needed for some cyrix 5x86 chips, also useful for OC), maybe 3.8, 4 and of course 5V would be top of the list.
- Another useful feature would be multiplier selection. Some boards only support 1x/2x (DX/DX2). Some boards lack a multiplier selection jumper (very early 486 boards and 386/486 combo boards). I don't know if this could be done from an interposer, but it probably can since kingston upgrade chips and the pentium overdrive work this way. This might also be useful for boards without documentation or without proper documentation.
- A 5v fan header could also be useful. Socket 3 chips don't get very hot, and having 5v header on the interposer would be cool so we don't have to hook up fans to molex connectors and mess up the wire management.
-Test points for CPU voltage would also be cool.

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-07, 19:06:

I have a literal buttload of socket 3 hardware, and so does fepioa. I could be one of the beta testers. […]
Show full quote

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 08:27:

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper? […]
Show full quote

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper?

Here is a socket 3 footprint I threw together based on the pentium overdrive datasheet.

I need beta testers btw.
Need active feedback and engagement. or this probably won't get past alpha/beta

I have a literal buttload of socket 3 hardware, and so does fepioa. I could be one of the beta testers.

As for features:
- I think the most important thing on a socket 3 interposer is voltage. I think the ability to chose between 3.3, 3.45, 3.6 (needed for some cyrix 5x86 chips, also useful for OC), maybe 3.8, 4 and of course 5V would be top of the list.
- Another useful feature would be multiplier selection. Some boards only support 1x/2x (DX/DX2). Some boards lack a multiplier selection jumper (very early 486 boards and 386/486 combo boards). I don't know if this could be done from an interposer, but it probably can since kingston upgrade chips and the pentium overdrive work this way. This might also be useful for boards without documentation or without proper documentation.
- A 5v fan header could also be useful. Socket 3 chips don't get very hot, and having 5v header on the interposer would be cool so we don't have to hook up fans to molex connectors and mess up the wire management.
-Test points for CPU voltage would also be cool.

excellent! glad to have ya! 😀

voltage taps are already planned 😀

The voltage interposers are a far more complicated project. With the 5/7 tweakers I did the non voltage variants first, as they are far easier and also provided invaluable ground work for the more complex designs. It is looking like this will be the plan here as well. (As of writing this the socket 5/7 voltage interposer is still non functional alpha stage.) however I kinda bit off a lot with the design trying to do a dual stage 550khz vrm. a linear style could have been done by now 🤣.

fun link:
https://dependency-injection.com/pentium-on-a … 86-motherboard/

Desired features:
-socket 1 amd 133 cpu auto detection (need more info)
-voltage 5v->3.3v (perhaps voltage taps on interposer to power externally and a full on voltage interposer later down the road.)
-register programming (i don't think this is gonna happen, I assume these are usually through software)
-PGA168 on the bottom, and a PGA237 on top (interposer design will allow user to configure this way or other ways.)
-cache mode (looks doable)
-blend pin (looks doable)
-Miltiplier adjustments. (probably doable, research pending)
-fan header (easy stuff)

Yes, register programming would require software. From my limited experience of interposers, everything else should be possible purely in the hardware

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-07, 19:06:

I have a literal buttload of socket 3 hardware, and so does fepioa. I could be one of the beta testers. […]
Show full quote

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-06-07, 08:27:

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper? […]
Show full quote

Anyone able to confirm this pin spacing with a caliper?

Here is a socket 3 footprint I threw together based on the pentium overdrive datasheet.

I need beta testers btw.
Need active feedback and engagement. or this probably won't get past alpha/beta

I have a literal buttload of socket 3 hardware, and so does fepioa. I could be one of the beta testers.

As for features:
- I think the most important thing on a socket 3 interposer is voltage. I think the ability to chose between 3.3, 3.45, 3.6 (needed for some cyrix 5x86 chips, also useful for OC), maybe 3.8, 4 and of course 5V would be top of the list.
- Another useful feature would be multiplier selection. Some boards only support 1x/2x (DX/DX2). Some boards lack a multiplier selection jumper (very early 486 boards and 386/486 combo boards). I don't know if this could be done from an interposer, but it probably can since kingston upgrade chips and the pentium overdrive work this way. This might also be useful for boards without documentation or without proper documentation.
- A 5v fan header could also be useful. Socket 3 chips don't get very hot, and having 5v header on the interposer would be cool so we don't have to hook up fans to molex connectors and mess up the wire management.
-Test points for CPU voltage would also be cool.

Ready for some testing?

multiplier

1CLKMUL
2Clock Multiplier (Input)
3The clock multiplier input defines the ratio of internal
4core clock frequency to external bus frequency. If sampled Low, the core frequency operates at twice the external bus frequency (speed-double mode). If driven
5High or left floating speed-triple mode is selected. CLKMUL has an internal pull-up to VCC
6 and may be left floating in designs that wish to select speed-triple clock
7mode.

So I found the clock multiplier pin on a dx4 but things got interesting when I found another diagram that showed it in yet another location.

Then I found this nice webpage http://ps-2.kev009.com/eprmhtml/eprmx/h12203.htm

So it appears we have no less than three pins that were used for clock multipliers on various cpu types. Non standardization I'm assuming.

According to that link:
Cyrix 486
uses B14

AMD 486DX2-NV8T
uses B13

Intel DX4, Cyrix 5x86, AMD486S DX2SV8B DX4SV8B, and iDX4-WB (AMD-5x86)
uses R17

So we will need three separate switches for pull up, then again three more for pull down. (double throw won't work unless jumper, as we need to be able to disable them)

A small bit of good news is that one of those pins B13 doubles at wt/wb on Intel DX2-WB, Intel® PODP, AMD486S DX2SV8B DX4SV8B, and iDX4-WB (AMD-5x86)

The instructions for using this tweaker are going to be complicated I can already tell. and there doesn't seem to be much we can do about hat if this data is to be believed.

Hit me up on discord when you have some time and we can probe these features and do some proofs of concept. if all looks well I can sketch out a schematic for this.

here is a possible feature we could ponder down the road.

Desired features:
-socket 1 amd 133 cpu auto detection (need more info)
-voltage 5v->3.3v (perhaps voltage taps on interposer to power externally and a full on voltage interposer later down the road.)
-register programming (i don't think this is gonna happen, I assume these are usually through software)
-PGA168 on the bottom, and a PGA237 on top (interposer design will allow user to configure this way or other ways.)
-cache mode (looks doable)
-blend pin (looks doable)
-Miltiplier adjustments. (probably doable, research pending)
-fan header (easy stuff)
-Math co processor (we'll see...)

alpha 3

I've been encountering a kicad glitch where my nets keep getting scrambled whenever I edit the footprint and haven't been able to make much progress on them. I could have had all the nets by now mapped were it not for that 🤣 but now I've run out of time. I'm gonna upload this as a place holder. I finally resorted to just removing the pads from the footprint and putting them on the pcb which is dumb. but shouldn't matter, result is the same.

Still working on numbering the pads also.

looking for input on layout.

I was thinking jumpers over socket crank since we are gonna have a fan header anyway.

obviously this means interference with the clip which won't work anyway on a interposer due to the added height.

I can probably build a tab into the pcb edge cuts though.

obviously the lever and crank side pose specific clearance issues. the lever for a shim or a interposer. and the crank side for a shim only.

Pictures I am seeing of various mobos seem to show that clearance issues right near the socket are common. so I worry about trying to put stuff there.

I could switch this up though and go for smd inside the socket. but I again worry about clearance there as well.

What do you guys think?

I'm kinda thinking that I should try to avoid the crank its self because it breaks compatibility with a shim style setup. so fan header and jumpers/switches should be moved?

I would forgo any fan header, since most fans that have such a header tend to be rated for 12v, and while they might work on 5v, there's no guarantee that they'll be working properly with a little dust and wear.
Also, while there are 5v fans that do not require a lot of current, there are plenty that require a little more, thus putting more strain on the powerplanes of your adapter.