I doubt you will be able to find a FDD controller for PCI that will work with more than 2 standard PC FDDs in a system as 'modern' as LGA775.
And I mean one that will work with whatever you intend to do with it.
Having such a controller also doesn't guarantee it will work with the software you might be intending to use.

Perhaps a better option would be to use an older system for this purpose, but having more than 2 FDDs in any PC that is vaguely into the Windows era...well I never came across such a system afaicr.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-04-29, 00:42:

I doubt you will be able to find a FDD controller for PCI that will work with more than 2 standard PC FDDs in a system as 'moder […]
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I doubt you will be able to find a FDD controller for PCI that will work with more than 2 standard PC FDDs in a system as 'modern' as LGA775.
And I mean one that will work with whatever you intend to do with it.
Having such a controller also doesn't guarantee it will work with the software you might be intending to use.

Perhaps a better option would be to use an older system for this purpose, but having more than 2 FDDs in any PC that is vaguely into the Windows era...well I never came across such a system afaicr.

What if i could find 2 regular controllers? I have heard that done where each controller is set on different channels. But, they were ISA controllers too. Maybe 2 PCI controllers could? Id like to keep modern as possible, so that i could still get online with the system also.

I know trying to run 4 fdds in a system just new enough to run windows 10 is like something no one does, but i think of strange things like that all the time 🤣.

I'd be a little surprised if PCI floppy controllers exist - by the time ISA disappeared motherboards had on-board floppy controllers, USB floppy drives were readily available and floppy drives were pretty much already obsolete anyway so there would be little value in marketing such a widget. And even if you had two ISA floppy controllers you'd probably struggle to find a motherboard with a BIOS that would pay any attention to the second controller (I've certainly never seen one that supports more than two floppy drives). The second controller would have to depend on drivers for whatever OS you're running or have its own Option ROM. Probably way more effort than its worth unless you already happen to have whatever obscure hardware you need sitting on your desk.

An old computer (or a pair of them) is the way to go. An old computer won't necessarily run a web browser but any IBM PC compatible running DOS 3.0+ with 256K of RAM and a free ISA slot can certainly support network drives and FTP which I'd think is good enough for getting disk images on and off the machine.

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-29, 03:50:

I'd be a little surprised if PCI floppy controllers exist - by the time ISA disappeared motherboards had on-board floppy controllers, USB floppy drives were readily available and floppy drives were pretty much already obsolete anyway so there would be little value in marketing such a widget. And even if you had two ISA floppy controllers you'd probably struggle to find a motherboard with a BIOS that would pay any attention to the second controller (I've certainly never seen one that supports more than two floppy drives). The second controller would have to depend on drivers for whatever OS you're running or have its own Option ROM. Probably way more effort than its worth unless you already happen to have whatever obscure hardware you need sitting on your desk.

An old computer (or a pair of them) is the way to go. An old computer won't necessarily run a web browser but any IBM PC compatible running DOS 3.0+ with 256K of RAM and a free ISA slot can certainly support network drives and FTP which I'd think is good enough for getting disk images on and off the machine.

Understandable. Heres my thing with that route tho, id prefer to have all I need in one tower. Saves space that I honestly dont have. Also, while i dont have an old IBM pc, sadly, id love one as a collector peice, maybe play some DOS games on. I do have spare hardware. Nothing that has an ISA tho, and certainly nothing really ideal for a use case like my own. In typing I had a thought tho... what if I could use Linux instead of a newer version of windows? Maybe theres things Linux can do, or maybe some easier coding to make something like 2 controllers work? Im just the type that likes to tinker. Something to occupy myself with outside of the usual grind, ya know?

The PC-type floppy controller is bound to ISA kind of. It uses ISA DMA, port addresses in ISA memory space etc.
That's why motherboards had SuperIO chips on-board and after them, LPC bus.
They're essentially both working like ISA from a software view.

Anyway, special PCI floppy controllers did exist.
That catweasel card for PC allowed interfacing Amiga floppy drives, SID chips and Atari style joysticks.
The old version used ISA, the new one used PCI.
However, they didn't show up as legacy floppy drives under DOS, I believe.

https://www.vesalia.de/e_catweaselmk4.htm

Edit: The LS-120/LS-240 drives used IDE and could read 1,44MB diskettes.
With special BIOS support, the drives worked fine in DOS, just faster.

Edit: Speaking of strange ideas.. I have them, too. 😁
I play with the idea of building a Pentium II/III PC for plain DOS.
To run very complex/demanding software for DOS.
Raytracing, MOD Trackers with 30 channels, AdLib Tracker etc.
However, I'm playing with the idea of going to install an ISA VGA card on a higher clocked ISA bus.
Why? Because all of the PCI VGA cards have do so many limitations.
No mode utility for CGA/HGC/EGA, no advanced text modes, no old Super VGA compatibility (DOS programs do not know new models), VBE 3 broke compatibility etc.
Also, they're not so much register compatible anymore. Demoscene productions expect ET4000 era compatibility, for example.
Yeah, I know. It's a silly idea. But at medium resolutions, that may work.

So with a bit more looking, there is apparently a sort of home brew fdc you can get, the XT-FDC and you can put it together with a controller and Option ROM to support 4 fdds... anyone else heard of this? I can provide a link later on.

It is an ISA card, so Im back to square one on the $300+ industrial mobo deal, but its evidently an easier controller to get ahold of than finding a genuine 4 fdd controller, and would work just as well.

Tech Tangents did a video on this.
He's using older hardware but will give you some insight into the difficulties you'll run into
https://youtu.be/ewmHZ-MC0ck

chinny22 wrote on 2022-04-29, 10:07:

Tech Tangents did a video on this.
He's using older hardware but will give you some insight into the difficulties you'll run into
https://youtu.be/ewmHZ-MC0ck

That controller he's using is exceedingly rare.

There also exist other models, the LCS-6814/6815 - but I don't recommend it. The BIOS implementation does not work properly on newer systems (tested on an Asus P2B-S).

The XT-FDC works on modern systems, and is relatively easily available (build one yourself, the PCB design is free), but is more than twice as slow as an ordinary floppy controller with the latest BIOS (2.6) in multisector transfers.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-04-29, 14:02:

That controller he's using is exceedingly rare. […]
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chinny22 wrote on 2022-04-29, 10:07:

Tech Tangents did a video on this.
He's using older hardware but will give you some insight into the difficulties you'll run into
https://youtu.be/ewmHZ-MC0ck

That controller he's using is exceedingly rare.

There also exist other models, the LCS-6814/6815 - but I don't recommend it. The BIOS implementation does not work properly on newer systems (tested on an Asus P2B-S).

The XT-FDC works on modern systems, and is relatively easily available (build one yourself, the PCB design is free), but is more than twice as slow as an ordinary floppy controller with the latest BIOS (2.6) in multisector transfers.

Could i get someone to make an XT-FDC for me? I dont have any of the equipment id need to make one myself, but if its the easiest to get, works on modern ish systems, and someone could build it for me for cheap, id greatly appreciate it.

Is there anywhere to buy a PCB and programmed ROM chip for the XT-FDC? I found a bom, but not gerber files, and not sure I could afford UK prices for getting a couple of PCBs made

debs3759 wrote on 2022-04-30, 00:05:

Is there anywhere to buy a PCB and programmed ROM chip for the XT-FDC? I found a bom, but not gerber files, and not sure I could afford UK prices for getting a couple of PCBs made

Id like to know the answer to this also.

@debs3759 i like the profile pic 🤣

I might order a bunch through Digikey to get them much cheaper, and build some to sell at cost.

Alistar1776 wrote on 2022-04-29, 05:08:

Understandable. Heres my thing with that route tho, id prefer to have all I need in one tower. Saves space that I honestly dont have. Also, while i dont have an old IBM pc, sadly, id love one as a collector peice, maybe play some DOS games on. I do have spare hardware. Nothing that has an ISA tho, and certainly nothing really ideal for a use case like my own. In typing I had a thought tho... what if I could use Linux instead of a newer version of windows? Maybe theres things Linux can do, or maybe some easier coding to make something like 2 controllers work? Im just the type that likes to tinker. Something to occupy myself with outside of the usual grind, ya know?

By IBM PC I just meant anything thats 100% compatible with one. So any random 8088/286/386/486/Pentium that runs a regular version of DOS will network just fine. Something weird like a DEC Rainbow (which can run DOS but isn't PC-compatible) would be more problematic.

Out of curiosity, what's the need for a bunch of floppy drives if you've got nothing that's particular old to use the floppy disks with? Even with quite a range of old hardware I find I very rarely need floppy disks - most of the time when I'm using one its to backup (image) some software I got from somewhere, the other times its to install DOS or get Windows 95 setup going. I can't remember the last time I actually used a floppy to install software - doing it over the network is just faster and easier.

For reading PC floppy disks a 1.2MB 5.25" and a 1.44M 3.5" drive is sufficient - only limitation is you can't write 360K 5.25" disks properly, everything else works fine. If you had a PC from the early 80s that you wanted to write 360K disks for you could trade the internal 1.44M 3.5" for a USB 3.5" drive and an internal 360K 5.25" drive. You'd loose the ability to read/write 720K disks (USB drives don't support them) but that's not much of a loss as 720K floppy drives seem pretty rare - I've only ever encountered them on 80s laptops (like the NEC MultiSpeed HD or Toshiba T1200).

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:26:

If you had a PC from the early 80s that you wanted to write 360K disks for you could trade the internal 1.44M 3.5" for a USB 3.5" drive and an internal 360K 5.25" drive. You'd loose the ability to read/write 720K disks (USB drives don't support them) but that's not much of a loss as 720K floppy drives seem pretty rare - I've only ever encountered them on 80s laptops (like the NEC MultiSpeed HD or Toshiba T1200).

I beg to differ (what a weird expression! I'm not begging, I'm stating....). I formatted some 720K disks on a USB floppy in Windows 10 just a couple of days ago 😀

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:26:

By IBM PC I just meant anything thats 100% compatible with one. So any random 8088/286/386/486/Pentium that runs a regular versi […]
Show full quote

Alistar1776 wrote on 2022-04-29, 05:08:

Understandable. Heres my thing with that route tho, id prefer to have all I need in one tower. Saves space that I honestly dont have. Also, while i dont have an old IBM pc, sadly, id love one as a collector peice, maybe play some DOS games on. I do have spare hardware. Nothing that has an ISA tho, and certainly nothing really ideal for a use case like my own. In typing I had a thought tho... what if I could use Linux instead of a newer version of windows? Maybe theres things Linux can do, or maybe some easier coding to make something like 2 controllers work? Im just the type that likes to tinker. Something to occupy myself with outside of the usual grind, ya know?

By IBM PC I just meant anything thats 100% compatible with one. So any random 8088/286/386/486/Pentium that runs a regular version of DOS will network just fine. Something weird like a DEC Rainbow (which can run DOS but isn't PC-compatible) would be more problematic.

Out of curiosity, what's the need for a bunch of floppy drives if you've got nothing that's particular old to use the floppy disks with? Even with quite a range of old hardware I find I very rarely need floppy disks - most of the time when I'm using one its to backup (image) some software I got from somewhere, the other times its to install DOS or get Windows 95 setup going. I can't remember the last time I actually used a floppy to install software - doing it over the network is just faster and easier.

For reading PC floppy disks a 1.2MB 5.25" and a 1.44M 3.5" drive is sufficient - only limitation is you can't write 360K 5.25" disks properly, everything else works fine. If you had a PC from the early 80s that you wanted to write 360K disks for you could trade the internal 1.44M 3.5" for a USB 3.5" drive and an internal 360K 5.25" drive. You'd loose the ability to read/write 720K disks (USB drives don't support them) but that's not much of a loss as 720K floppy drives seem pretty rare - I've only ever encountered them on 80s laptops (like the NEC MultiSpeed HD or Toshiba T1200).

I am one that likes to prepare for anything. In this case, i like old computers, maybe building an old DOS gaming machine, or restoring some to sell, or collect. And because my modern ethernet cable wont fit anything older than my current Dell T3400 (example my Socket 462 Win98SE machine), installing over network isnt all that convenient for me. I personally find going the traditional route of writing the software i may need, to the proper media, (1.2m and 360k 5.25, and 1.44m and 720k 3.5, and cd-rom) a lot easier. Thus, i want to build a pc that can do so. Also, I find making things work that typically wouldnt rather interesting itself. 😂

debs3759 wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:45:

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:26:

If you had a PC from the early 80s that you wanted to write 360K disks for you could trade the internal 1.44M 3.5" for a USB 3.5" drive and an internal 360K 5.25" drive. You'd loose the ability to read/write 720K disks (USB drives don't support them) but that's not much of a loss as 720K floppy drives seem pretty rare - I've only ever encountered them on 80s laptops (like the NEC MultiSpeed HD or Toshiba T1200).

I beg to differ (what a weird expression! I'm not begging, I'm stating....). I formatted some 720K disks on a USB floppy in Windows 10 just a couple of days ago 😀

Same here, though there are some USB FDDs that only support 1.44MB.
The first USB FDDs tend to support both DD & HD, later ones no longer do. Why you may ask? I can only guess lazyness and not caring about support for DD.

Alistar1776 wrote on 2022-04-30, 08:18:

I am one that likes to prepare for anything. In this case, i like old computers, maybe building an old DOS gaming machine, or restoring some to sell, or collect. And because my modern ethernet cable wont fit anything older than my current Dell T3400 (example my Socket 462 Win98SE machine), installing over network isnt all that convenient for me. I personally find going the traditional route of writing the software i may need, to the proper media, (1.2m and 360k 5.25, and 1.44m and 720k 3.5, and cd-rom) a lot easier. Thus, i want to build a pc that can do so. Also, I find making things work that typically wouldnt rather interesting itself. 😂

Sounds like as good a reason as any - though the ethernet cable issue is easily solved. I've had an early 80s PC (8088, dual 360K 5.25" drives, mono display, no hard disk) hooked up to my gigabit switch before. All it takes is a suitable network card - in this case an 8bit ISA one with an AUI (plus a 10baseT MAU) or RJ45 connector.

One other possible solution I'd forgotten about, though not an easy one - SCSI floppy drives do exist. Pretty rare (I've never seen one in person - only ever photos) but if you can track them down you can put up to 6 of those on a single SCSI bus. Having never used one before I don't know what, if any, limitations they came with though or how DOS and Windows would treat them.

weedeewee wrote on 2022-04-30, 10:09:

debs3759 wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:45:

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-30, 03:26:

If you had a PC from the early 80s that you wanted to write 360K disks for you could trade the internal 1.44M 3.5" for a USB 3.5" drive and an internal 360K 5.25" drive. You'd loose the ability to read/write 720K disks (USB drives don't support them) but that's not much of a loss as 720K floppy drives seem pretty rare - I've only ever encountered them on 80s laptops (like the NEC MultiSpeed HD or Toshiba T1200).

I beg to differ (what a weird expression! I'm not begging, I'm stating....). I formatted some 720K disks on a USB floppy in Windows 10 just a couple of days ago 😀

Same here, though there are some USB FDDs that only support 1.44MB.
The first USB FDDs tend to support both DD & HD, later ones no longer do. Why you may ask? I can only guess lazyness and not caring about support for DD.

Interesting! I'd always read USB drives simply didn't support them for some technical reason. This is certainly the easiest solution then - two 5.25" drives (HD and DD) inside the computer and a suitably old USB one outside it.

davidrg wrote on 2022-04-30, 10:45:

Interesting! I'd always read USB drives simply didn't support them for some technical reason. This is certainly the easiest solution then - two 5.25" drives (HD and DD) inside the computer and a suitably old USB one outside it.

In the worst case he can simply build 2 tweeners with each having 2 FDDs. The OP seems to have plenty builds and build experience already.
If he can't make 4 FDDs (or even more if he'd like something even closer to absolute compatibility) work with a single PC.

There is also the Microsolutions Backpack, which is essentially an external housing connected to the parallel port and internally it's just a regular internal floppy drive which can be exchanged with other units (I exchanged one of mine with a 2.88MB one and it worked).

Disadvantage was that it won't work with NT, only 9x and (presumably) DOS are supported.