VOGONS


First post, by SteveC

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Hi all,

I want to put in an extra 1MB (2x512KB) into my IBM PC 330 onboard S3 Trio 64 graphics card - are they all pretty much generic so if it looks like it'll fit then it'll probably work?

Like these two items on eBay? One has -70 and one has -35 on the part numbers, I assume that's the speed in ns? The soldered onboard chips are -6 at the end.

Cheers,
Steve

Attachments

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevesTechShed
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveTechShed

Reply 1 of 12, by SteveC

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Oh bit of digging and I found I need "1MB Video Memory Upgrade 60ns DRAM" part number 92G7432

Not sure that helps 😀

Also noticed the second item in the eBay screenshot has a typo should be WF264265-35

edit: It appears you can have EDO and 'normal' FPM which makes sense like normal SIMMs. I'm guessing it's FPM I need.

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevesTechShed
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveTechShed

Reply 2 of 12, by Azarien

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
SteveC wrote on 2022-05-07, 10:15:

I want to put in an extra 1MB (2x512KB) into my IBM PC 330 onboard S3 Trio 64 graphics card - are they all pretty much generic so if it looks like it'll fit then it'll probably work?

There is more than one type of them, back in the day I tried to buy additional RAM to my CL-GD5446 (if I remember correctly) and the chips they had at the store didn't work properly with my card so I had to return them.

Reply 3 of 12, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

Not that many types around, and most were two or three varieties, but there's no guarantee.

Since you have some installed ones to compare, that shouldn't be a problem.
Look up their first line of fine print, especially the first combination of letters and numbers, until you find a proper data sheet.

E.g. IC41C16257: https://www.ebay.de/itm/265335516449
Data sheet: http://pdf.datasheetcatalog.net/datasheets2/77/778772_1.pdf

What you need to check for:
- Correct physical package, obviously. Probably SOJ-40
- If FPM or EDO DRAM
- Same geometry, 256k x 16, in this example. That's 256 kbits times 16, making 4 Mbits or 512 kByte
- Same pin configuration as on page 2 of that pdf

If the type I linked to checks out: That seems like an OK price still, shipping to Germany was noted as 6 €. Maybe spread the shipping cost over two lots, six chips?

I like jumpers.

Reply 4 of 12, by Horun

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Cuttoon wrote on 2022-05-07, 16:08:

Not that many types around, and most were two or three varieties, but there's no guarantee.

Since you have some installed ones to compare, that shouldn't be a problem.
Look up their first line of fine print, especially the first combination of letters and numbers, until you find a proper data sheet.

Yep ! The S3 Trio64 and Trio64V+ can use either FPM or EDO and are typically 16x256k 256kx16 chips but cannot mix them. You should match them as close as possible as you said.
One thing: you can use faster ram but not slower: I have one S3 Trio64 that came with 2x -60's and added 2x -50's and it works just fine. fixed boo boo ;p

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor.

Reply 5 of 12, by SteveC

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Just ordered a cheap S3 Trio64 card off eBay which has socketed chips which appear to be the correct type. Bit sacrilegious buying a whole graphics card just to steal its RAM but it was the cheaper than buying the RAM chips 😁

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevesTechShed
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveTechShed

Reply 6 of 12, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Nah, that's okay for the moment! The Trios aren't super rare yet.
Just please don't throw the card away, if possible.

The EPROM could still be useful, for example.
It could be used inside emulators, for example (DOSBox uses a Trio32/64 predecessor, btw).
Or maybe it has a higher VBE level (VBE 2.x) than the usual Trio64 card has.
A tools like NSSI can dump a VGA BIOS.

Also, maybe the Trio64 chip can be used in future projects.
Their S3 drivers can do 1600x1200, for example.
The metal bracket could be useful for future projects, too. 🙂

Edit: Becareful with the brown RAM sockets.
They easily break out. Use something soft or small to pull the RAM out.
A fine needle or something made of plastic, not sure.
Maybe you can borrow some special PC tools from a friend, not sure.

Edit: A tip you: The S3 ViRGE 325 perhaps is pin-compatible with the Trio64V+.
If that's true, you maybe could use that chip as a drop-in replacement for your Trio64V+.
With a heat gun/hot air station, the big ICs could be removed from the motherboard / the ViRGE card.
Anyway, that's just an idea. Please double check what I said.
Other Vogons might know more abozt the procedure.
Also, be careful with a heat gun/hot air station.
It can burn a pencil within a few seconds.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 7 of 12, by SteveC

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Jo22 wrote on 2022-05-25, 08:05:
Nah, that's okay for the moment! The Trios aren't super rare yet. Just please don't throw the card away, if possible. […]
Show full quote

Nah, that's okay for the moment! The Trios aren't super rare yet.
Just please don't throw the card away, if possible.

The EPROM could still be useful, for example.
It could be used inside emulators, for example (DOSBox uses a Trio32/64 predecessor, btw).
Or maybe it has a higher VBE level (VBE 2.x) than the usual Trio64 card has.
A tools like NSSI can dump a VGA BIOS.

Also, maybe the Trio64 chip can be used in future projects.
Their S3 drivers can do 1600x1200, for example.
The metal bracket could be useful for future projects, too. 🙂

Edit: Becareful with the brown RAM sockets.
They easily break out. Use something soft or small to pull the RAM out.
A fine needle or something made of plastic, not sure.
Maybe you can borrow some special PC tools from a friend, not sure.

Edit: A tip you: The S3 ViRGE 325 perhaps is pin-compatible with the Trio64V+.
If that's true, you maybe could use that chip as a drop-in replacement for your Trio64V+.
With a heat gun/hot air station, the big ICs could be removed from the motherboard / the ViRGE card.
Anyway, that's just an idea. Please double check what I said.
Other Vogons might know more abozt the procedure.
Also, be careful with a heat gun/hot air station.
It can burn a pencil within a few seconds.

Thanks for the notes 😀

Don't worry I won't throw it away! I will see if I can dump the BIOS before I steal the RAM.

Not sure I will go to the effort of a chip swap though 😀

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevesTechShed
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveTechShed

Reply 8 of 12, by Disruptor

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Jo22 wrote on 2022-05-25, 08:05:
Edit: A tip you: The S3 ViRGE 325 perhaps is pin-compatible with the Trio64V+. If that's true, you maybe could use that chip as […]
Show full quote

Edit: A tip you: The S3 ViRGE 325 perhaps is pin-compatible with the Trio64V+.
If that's true, you maybe could use that chip as a drop-in replacement for your Trio64V+.
With a heat gun/hot air station, the big ICs could be removed from the motherboard / the ViRGE card.
Anyway, that's just an idea. Please double check what I said.
Other Vogons might know more abozt the procedure.
Also, be careful with a heat gun/hot air station.
It can burn a pencil within a few seconds.

1) Be sure that it is a Trio64V+
2) Be sure that your Trio64V+ is connected as PCI device to your board; not as VL device

Reply 10 of 12, by Jo22

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
SteveC wrote on 2022-05-25, 15:09:

Onboard is a Trio64 (no V or V+) anyway

Ah, sorry. My condolences. 😢

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 11 of 12, by SteveC

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

Ended up buying 5x 512KB ICs from China for $10 which just turned up - Re: What retro activity did you get up to today?

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/StevesTechShed
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveTechShed

Reply 12 of 12, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

It’s probably best to try and find the chips you already have. Otherwise you have to go through comparing data sheets. In general lower ns can be paired with higher original ns if that’s what the only difference. But other specs may have changed that aren’t compatible.

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)