rasz_pl wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:03:

not if you are fine with running coppermines at 1.8V […]
Show full quote

kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:16:

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:06:

Zoomed in his photo, it's a 1.10.

Dat bad. Must be a later revision to be useful.

https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-ASUS/P2B.html

not if you are fine with running coppermines at 1.8V

Solo761 wrote on 2022-05-31, 08:31:

Where do you guys get all of these boards 😅.

judging by the pictures from a dumpster, by the swamp :]

IIRC someone had said that Coppermines can take as much as 2.0v without even flinching, so I guess they're tough as nails, at least compared to Athlons and Durons in FCPGA package.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:31:

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-05-31, 11:03:

not if you are fine with running coppermines at 1.8V […]
Show full quote

kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:16:

Dat bad. Must be a later revision to be useful.

https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-ASUS/P2B.html

not if you are fine with running coppermines at 1.8V

Solo761 wrote on 2022-05-31, 08:31:

Where do you guys get all of these boards 😅.

judging by the pictures from a dumpster, by the swamp :]

IIRC someone had said that Coppermines can take as much as 2.0v without even flinching, so I guess they're tough as nails, at least compared to Athlons and Durons in FCPGA package.

They love the angry pixies !

kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:16:

PcBytes wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:06:

kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-05-30, 11:04:

P2B heavily relies on board revision, though.

Zoomed in his photo, it's a 1.10.

Dat bad. Must be a later revision to be useful.

That's incorrect actually.

Some P2B rev 1.10 mobos did actually supply the correct voltage. Mine actually did.

Solo761 wrote on 2022-05-31, 08:31:

Where do you guys get all of these boards 😅.

I barely managed to get 2-3 and then spent few months trying to fix them, let alone have hoard like this 😅.

I think that it mostly depends on where you live and who you end up meeting. Where I currently live in Canada people tend to not throw things away as much as in the larger cities I have lived in before since population density is lower making land, and storage space cheaper. Also, the market for 1990s and newer hardware is very small. Most collectors are only interested in 1980s and older systems. I typically buy equipment from people on kijiji and facebook marketplace when the price is right. I also have a friend who is a scrapper who brings me stuff. Since the coronavirus I have also occasionally come across companies downsizing their offices or closing shop completely. Also, since electricity is very cheap here it is not uncommon for businesses to have a lot of servers running on site and for older equipment to hang around forever. Core 2, Pentium 4, and Pentium I era hardware tends to be the easiest to find from my experience. Pentium II/III and 486 is a bit harder. Whereas Pentium pro, 386 and older, and non-x86 systems tend to be the hardest to find. Also, people love to ask rediculous prices for Macintosh/Apple hardware mist of which is often the lower end/consumer stuff. Hence, the main focus of my collection is very high end x86 systems (i.e. dual and quad CPU systems), high end video/sound/scsi cards and odd expansion cards, as well as any non-x86 systems I can get my hands on. This keeps my collection small enough to be able to fit within a room or two of my house while keeping the hobby affordable since I can stay away from proprietary and overpriced hardware as much as possible. I also find that having enough spare parts except case to be able to rebuild each one of my x86 systems is nice since I can always get a system back up and running quickly and affordably if something does break. Also, now that I think about it. Over the last 10 years I have spent a good deal of my free time looking for old hardware to add to my collection.

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-31, 14:41:

Some P2B rev 1.10 mobos did actually supply the correct voltage. Mine actually did.

Can confirm, I had a v1.10 that supported Coppermine. https://web.archive.org/web/20191114013933/ht … ard_differences has more detail.

Nikola99 wrote on 2022-05-31, 16:50:

I think that it mostly depends on where you live and who you end up meeting. Where I currently live in Canada people tend to not throw things away as much as in the larger cities I have lived in before since population density is lower making land, and storage space cheaper. Also, the market for 1990s and newer hardware is very small. Most collectors are only interested in 1980s and older systems. I typically buy equipment from people on kijiji and facebook marketplace when the price is right. I also have a friend who is a scrapper who brings me stuff. Since the coronavirus I have also occasionally come across companies downsizing their offices or closing shop completely. Also, since electricity is very cheap here it is not uncommon for businesses to have a lot of servers running on site and for older equipment to hang around forever. Core 2, Pentium 4, and Pentium I era hardware tends to be the easiest to find from my experience. Pentium II/III and 486 is a bit harder. Whereas Pentium pro, 386 and older, and non-x86 systems tend to be the hardest to find. Also, people love to ask rediculous prices for Macintosh/Apple hardware mist of which is often the lower end/consumer stuff. Hence, the main focus of my collection is very high end x86 systems (i.e. dual and quad CPU systems), high end video/sound/scsi cards and odd expansion cards, as well as any non-x86 systems I can get my hands on. This keeps my collection small enough to be able to fit within a room or two of my house while keeping the hobby affordable since I can stay away from proprietary and overpriced hardware as much as possible. I also find that having enough spare parts except case to be able to rebuild each one of my x86 systems is nice since I can always get a system back up and running quickly and affordably if something does break. Also, now that I think about it. Over the last 10 years I have spent a good deal of my free time looking for old hardware to add to my collection.

I guess location is also important. In the nineties there was a war here so people had more important things to worry about than buying computers 😅. That was mostly Amiga/Atari/486 era 🤔. Pentium was later but still there aren't that many of those available. I guess that comes to population, only about 4-5 million of people, not many computer geeks 😅.

I'd say the MVP3 super socket 7 boards are worth the effort. The Asus P4P800 most likely has a corrupted BIOS - it's a known issue (used to fix quite a few of these back in the day) so that's worth having a look at if you have an EEPROM programmer.... there was also a intel chipset socket 3 board in there - that might be worth fixing. I also spotted what looked like a late model socket 370 board - green PCB - that looked interesting. Then again it seems I'm one of the few interested in socket 370 boards.... on this forum at least, as other users prefer intel 440 + slotkets. I also spotted a socket A board with ISA - probably a KT133. If it supports 133MHz FSB I'd say it's worth having a look. Athlon XP-M/Geode + KT133 boards + ISA sound card make for an interesting all-in-one retro PC that can cover a huge span of retro games. The P2L97 might be worth looking into. Asus stuff is popular, slot 1 stuff as well. I had a few of those - one had blown mosfets - both, one shorted - took the PPL with them - went into the parts donors box. The second was flashed with the wrong BIOS - easy fix. The third had one bad mosfet - salvaged the part from another board and got it working. P6BXA+ as well. The Abit BH6 is really worth the effort. Check the caps - they go bad even without apparent bulging or leaks. It's a great little board, and SOFTMENU makes overclocking easy.

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:56:

I'd say the MVP3 super socket 7 boards are worth the effort. The Asus P4P800 most likely has a corrupted BIOS - it's a known issue (used to fix quite a few of these back in the day) so that's worth having a look at if you have an EEPROM programmer.... there was also a intel chipset socket 3 board in there - that might be worth fixing. I also spotted what looked like a late model socket 370 board - green PCB - that looked interesting. Then again it seems I'm one of the few interested in socket 370 boards.... on this forum at least, as other users prefer intel 440 + slotkets. I also spotted a socket A board with ISA - probably a KT133. If it supports 133MHz FSB I'd say it's worth having a look. Athlon XP-M/Geode + KT133 boards + ISA sound card make for an interesting all-in-one retro PC that can cover a huge span of retro games. The P2L97 might be worth looking into. Asus stuff is popular, slot 1 stuff as well. I had a few of those - one had blown mosfets - both, one shorted - took the PPL with them - went into the parts donors box. The second was flashed with the wrong BIOS - easy fix. The third had one bad mosfet - salvaged the part from another board and got it working. P6BXA+ as well. The Abit BH6 is really worth the effort. Check the caps - they go bad even without apparent bulging or leaks. It's a great little board, and SOFTMENU makes overclocking easy.

Thanks for the information. I guess I will keep all of the boards around and work on them bit by bit. I never knew about the bios corruption issue with the P4P800 boards. I unfortunately scrapped one 10 years ago since I didn’t know about it. However, I do have two or three broken ones sitting In the storage room. I will pop their bios chips into my eeprom programmer and have a look. Hopefully I can fix them just by reflashing the bios chips. As for socket 370 boards I am a huge fan of the later ones with tualatin support as well as anything that is dual socket. I visited the scrapper two days ago to help him sort thru more boards and came home with a dozen socket 370 boards. Among the pile are 2 or 3 Asus CUV4X boards as well as a few QDI ones. I think one has Tualatin support.

Nikola99 wrote on 2022-06-02, 21:04:

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:56:

I'd say the MVP3 super socket 7 boards are worth the effort. The Asus P4P800 most likely has a corrupted BIOS - it's a known issue (used to fix quite a few of these back in the day) so that's worth having a look at if you have an EEPROM programmer.... there was also a intel chipset socket 3 board in there - that might be worth fixing. I also spotted what looked like a late model socket 370 board - green PCB - that looked interesting. Then again it seems I'm one of the few interested in socket 370 boards.... on this forum at least, as other users prefer intel 440 + slotkets. I also spotted a socket A board with ISA - probably a KT133. If it supports 133MHz FSB I'd say it's worth having a look. Athlon XP-M/Geode + KT133 boards + ISA sound card make for an interesting all-in-one retro PC that can cover a huge span of retro games. The P2L97 might be worth looking into. Asus stuff is popular, slot 1 stuff as well. I had a few of those - one had blown mosfets - both, one shorted - took the PPL with them - went into the parts donors box. The second was flashed with the wrong BIOS - easy fix. The third had one bad mosfet - salvaged the part from another board and got it working. P6BXA+ as well. The Abit BH6 is really worth the effort. Check the caps - they go bad even without apparent bulging or leaks. It's a great little board, and SOFTMENU makes overclocking easy.

Thanks for the information. I guess I will keep all of the boards around and work on them bit by bit. I never knew about the bios corruption issue with the P4P800 boards. I unfortunately scrapped one 10 years ago since I didn’t know about it. However, I do have two or three broken ones sitting In the storage room. I will pop their bios chips into my eeprom programmer and have a look. Hopefully I can fix them just by reflashing the bios chips. As for socket 370 boards I am a huge fan of the later ones with tualatin support as well as anything that is dual socket. I visited the scrapper two days ago to help him sort thru more boards and came home with a dozen socket 370 boards. Among the pile are 2 or 3 Asus CUV4X boards as well as a few QDI ones. I think one has Tualatin support.

I don't think the CUV4X has out of the box Tualatin support since it's based on the 694A chipset instead of the 694T, but I know it allows you to set vcore in bios, and using the pin mod you can convince the board to post with a Tualatin chip. I have a pin modded 1GHz tualeron witch I tried in my Asus CUVX-M and it works a treat. I posted then set vcore to 1.45v in bios and had no issues. It even works at 1333MHz (133x10) perfectly stable if I bump the voltage up to 1.55v! The board identifies the pin modded trualeron as a "Pentium III 1AGHz". When I bump the FSB to 133, the post screen says Pentium III 1333MHz.

I've been looking for a CUV4X board for myself, but had no luck so far. I prefer the 694A chipset over the 815 because it usually offers 1 or 2 ISA slots, and I want to use a CUV4X with a VIA C3 1200Mhz and an ISA SB16 or ESS 1868 for DOS audio plus a YMF724 in windows. The CUVX-M is mATX, and won't take the 6 expansion cards I'd like to put in the system: a Geforce 2 GTS, two Voodoo 2 cards, the YMF724, a lan card and the aforementioned SB16 / ESS 1698.

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-03, 18:42:

Nikola99 wrote on 2022-06-02, 21:04:

Socket3 wrote on 2022-06-02, 20:56:

I'd say the MVP3 super socket 7 boards are worth the effort. The Asus P4P800 most likely has a corrupted BIOS - it's a known issue (used to fix quite a few of these back in the day) so that's worth having a look at if you have an EEPROM programmer.... there was also a intel chipset socket 3 board in there - that might be worth fixing. I also spotted what looked like a late model socket 370 board - green PCB - that looked interesting. Then again it seems I'm one of the few interested in socket 370 boards.... on this forum at least, as other users prefer intel 440 + slotkets. I also spotted a socket A board with ISA - probably a KT133. If it supports 133MHz FSB I'd say it's worth having a look. Athlon XP-M/Geode + KT133 boards + ISA sound card make for an interesting all-in-one retro PC that can cover a huge span of retro games. The P2L97 might be worth looking into. Asus stuff is popular, slot 1 stuff as well. I had a few of those - one had blown mosfets - both, one shorted - took the PPL with them - went into the parts donors box. The second was flashed with the wrong BIOS - easy fix. The third had one bad mosfet - salvaged the part from another board and got it working. P6BXA+ as well. The Abit BH6 is really worth the effort. Check the caps - they go bad even without apparent bulging or leaks. It's a great little board, and SOFTMENU makes overclocking easy.

Thanks for the information. I guess I will keep all of the boards around and work on them bit by bit. I never knew about the bios corruption issue with the P4P800 boards. I unfortunately scrapped one 10 years ago since I didn’t know about it. However, I do have two or three broken ones sitting In the storage room. I will pop their bios chips into my eeprom programmer and have a look. Hopefully I can fix them just by reflashing the bios chips. As for socket 370 boards I am a huge fan of the later ones with tualatin support as well as anything that is dual socket. I visited the scrapper two days ago to help him sort thru more boards and came home with a dozen socket 370 boards. Among the pile are 2 or 3 Asus CUV4X boards as well as a few QDI ones. I think one has Tualatin support.

I don't think the CUV4X has out of the box Tualatin support since it's based on the 694A chipset instead of the 694T, but I know it allows you to set vcore in bios, and using the pin mod you can convince the board to post with a Tualatin chip. I have a pin modded 1GHz tualeron witch I tried in my Asus CUVX-M and it works a treat. I posted then set vcore to 1.45v in bios and had no issues. It even works at 1333MHz (133x10) perfectly stable if I bump the voltage up to 1.55v! The board identifies the pin modded trualeron as a "Pentium III 1AGHz". When I bump the FSB to 133, the post screen says Pentium III 1333MHz.

I've been looking for a CUV4X board for myself, but had no luck so far. I prefer the 694A chipset over the 815 because it usually offers 1 or 2 ISA slots, and I want to use a CUV4X with a VIA C3 1200Mhz and an ISA SB16 or ESS 1698 for DOS audio plus a YMF724 in windows. The CUVX-M is mATX, and won't take the 6 expansion cards I'd like to put in the system: a Geforce 2 GTS, two Voodoo 2 cards, the YMF724, a lan card and the aforementioned SB16 / ESS 1698.

Feel free to send me a PM if you would be interested in a CUV4X board. I honestly have no need for 3 or 4 identical boards and would be more than happy to sell or trade. I am sure we can work out a deal assuming shipping doesn’t cost a fortune.

y2k se wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:02:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-31, 14:41:

Some P2B rev 1.10 mobos did actually supply the correct voltage. Mine actually did.

Can confirm, I had a v1.10 that supported Coppermine. https://web.archive.org/web/20191114013933/ht … ard_differences has more detail.

I have a 1.02 running Coppermines as well it seems - HIP6019CB voltage regulator. POST'd with almost all my Coppermines, bar an 850 that I suspect being dead as a brick, and a 1100 which I have no idea why it doesn't POST.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 12:30:

y2k se wrote on 2022-05-31, 21:02:

Tetrium wrote on 2022-05-31, 14:41:

Some P2B rev 1.10 mobos did actually supply the correct voltage. Mine actually did.

Can confirm, I had a v1.10 that supported Coppermine. https://web.archive.org/web/20191114013933/ht … ard_differences has more detail.

I have a 1.02 running Coppermines as well it seems - HIP6019CB voltage regulator. POST'd with almost all my Coppermines, bar an 850 that I suspect being dead as a brick, and a 1100 which I have no idea why it doesn't POST.

Does your 1100 post on other boards?
Iirc there were sometimes issues with older Slot 1 (or s370) boards and CPUs with CPU multipliers above 8 or something.
Worth checking this out, those 2 CPUs of yours thats eem dead would be nice if they were still functional 🙂

Nah, unfortunately it seems it died too. Tried it in a mobo I know it POST'd before and got no POST on that one either. Same for the 850, but for that one I didn't have high hopes of working considering it came from scrap.

kitten.may.cry wrote on 2022-05-30, 13:16:

Dat bad. Must be a later revision to be useful.

https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-ASUS/P2B.html

I mean, the OP's pics are not that great, but I'm pretty sure I'm seeing a HIP6018BCB VRM chip on that board, in which case it absolutely supports Coppermines at their native voltage.
And even if it's just a HIP6018CB (which only supports voltages down to 1.8 ), it's very easy to replace that one with... you guessed it, a HIP6018BCB 😁

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 12:30:

I have a 1.02 running Coppermines as well it seems - HIP6019CB voltage regulator. POST'd with almost all my Coppermines, bar an 850 that I suspect being dead as a brick, and a 1100 which I have no idea why it doesn't POST.

HIP6019CB does not support voltages lower than 1.8... so not really sure how it posted with Coppermines (without forcing them to run out of spec).

bloodem wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:00:

HIP6019CB does not support voltages lower than 1.8... so not really sure how it posted with Coppermines (without forcing them to run out of spec).

Considering most of the Coppermines I tested were rated at 1.7v and 1.75, running them at 1.8v minimum (my slotket allows manual voltage setting) won't hurt.

I'm not gonna use the P2B with Coppermines anyways, it was just a fun test round to see if it works, since it was probably the only non-OEM 440BX mobo I hadn't tested with the "PII CPU CARD VER1.1" modified slotket (the well known x4-AH4 + cut AM2).
Thanks to PARKE for the Shuttle HOT-C003 slotket's DIP switches settings - they work on mine just fine. I had set my Coppermines to run at 1.8v as a error margin (something I managed to learn while tinkering with my BE6-II to get it stable) for 133FSB operation.

Then there's a WS440BX out of a Gateway GP6-400 that I didn't test with the slotket for stability. I'm not expecting much considering the slotket is pretty cheap build wise but the fact that it has DIP switches is what keeps me trying to get it to cooperate with 440BX to run 133FSB stable.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:23:

Considering most of the Coppermines I tested were rated at 1.7v and 1.75, running them at 1.8v minimum (my slotket allows manual voltage setting) won't hurt.

Ah, OK, in that case it makes sense. And, indeed, it won't really hurt but they do get a bit hotter (so better cooling is recommended).

bloodem wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:25:

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:23:

Considering most of the Coppermines I tested were rated at 1.7v and 1.75, running them at 1.8v minimum (my slotket allows manual voltage setting) won't hurt.

Ah, OK, in that case it makes sense. And, indeed, it won't really hurt but they do get a bit hotter (so better cooling is recommended).

From my experiences with my Soyo 6BA+IV, I didn't find 1.8v be much hotter than 1.75v chips usually are.
My goal is a bit stellar probably - stable 133FSB BX operation + undervolted Coppermine. I figure at least one of those variables would require me an high end mobo like either a Gigabyte 6BXC, ASUS P3B or an ABIT BE6-II w/ HPT370 (which would be either Rev 1.2 or 2.0 - the one I own is a standard HPT366 rev 1.0 which has proven absolutely capricious with a lot of stuff I've been running on it - I have to admit to all of those capricious bursts being my own fault for having a hard time understanding how ABIT's SOFT MENU works - imagine my happiness when I could get a MX440 to run crash-free in place of the Radeon 7500 I had on it.)

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:31:

My goal is a bit stellar probably - stable 133FSB BX operation + undervolted Coppermine. I figure at least one of those variables would require me an high end mobo like either a Gigabyte 6BXC, ASUS P3B or an ABIT BE6-II w/ HPT370 (which would be either Rev 1.2 or 2.0 - the one I own is a standard HPT366 rev 1.0 which has proven absolutely capricious with a lot of stuff I've been running on it - I have to admit to all of those capricious bursts being my own fault for having a hard time understanding how ABIT's SOFT MENU works - imagine my happiness when I could get a MX440 to run crash-free in place of the Radeon 7500 I had on it.)

90+% of all 440BX boards are perfectly stable @ FSB 133. Those that aren't are usually very, very cheapo models. As for undervolting a Coppermine, it's perfectly doable with some CPUs, particularly those in the 700 - 850 MHz range.
Even though I love the 6BXC (for very valid reasons), I've never thought of it as being a high-end motherboard. It's decently built, but it lacks a lot of features of the truly high-end boards.

So it then boils down to my slotket being trash or my RAM being even more trash I guess?

I tried every non-OEM 440BX board I have around (bar the WS440BX but that's one thing I'm gonna do tomorrow, have two 133FSB chips ready to be put to work) and so far I have experienced nothing but crashes galore. Running 100FSB on the same configurations proved rather qell, with maybe a few occasional crashes after very long periods of time, usually anywhere long upwards of 30 minutes, and 66FSB chips are literally like running a standard everyday Celeron of that era.

Mobos I used were as following - ASUS P2B, Soyo 6BA+IV and ABIT BE6-II Rev 1.0. The worst crashes were on the BE6 (which is now polymodded on the CPU side) which went as far as having to do several power cycles to get the 133FSB chips to POST ever again - 100 and 66FSBs recovered pretty fast, a restart and you would be back on track with the 100s, and the 66s were the "it just werkz" chips (both Mendocinos and a bunch of Coppermines between 566 and 700Mhz)

Wonder if there's a certain combination that can get me a working 133FSB setup with the current slotket across most of my mainboards - I know for one thing that it took me an ungodly amount of tinkering to get my BE6 to cooperate with both nVidia cards and having a In-Order Queue Depth of 8 without it crashing. I remember the final settings were 1.65v default Vcore (I currently run a standard Slot based SL3XK on it) and raising the chipset voltage to 3.4v (I feel like 3.5v is a tad too much for the old BX to endure in the long run...)

What I did experiment with the 6BA+IV and can safely admit is that Coppermines do accept as low as 1.5v Vcore(haven't dipped much lower than that, but I suppose I can try fiddling with the DIPs since I can go as low as 1.3 documented, possibly as low as 1.0v undocumented... hmmmmmmm...) from what little testing I did. Oh, and Mendocinos too, those virtually seem to not care the slightest about Vcore, 🤣.

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:56:

So it then boils down to my slotket being trash or my RAM being even more trash I guess?

Possibly, but hard to say for sure without testing them myself. 😀 Most slotkets (even generic ones that I have) worked fine for me with lower power CPUs (like the VIA Ezra-T / Nehemiah).
However, when it comes to running Coppermines on Slot 1 boards, I always go with native Slot 1 CPUs. This has the benefit of eliminating a potential point of failure/instability (the slotket) + it also looks nicer. 😁
If, on the other hand, a socket 370 CPU is all you've got, then it's better to search for a good slotket like the MSI MS6905 "Master" (especially revisions 2.0/2.3). The problem is that such a slotket is quite rare and expensive nowadays, so it's probably better to just buy a native Slot 1 Coppermine.

Regarding RAM, you must use a PC133 module and you should be fine @ 133 MHz FSB (as long as the RAM is not damaged).

PcBytes wrote on 2022-06-04, 18:56:

Mobos I used were as following - ASUS P2B, Soyo 6BA+IV and ABIT BE6-II Rev 1.0. The worst crashes were on the BE6 (which is now polymodded on the CPU side) which went as far as having to do several power cycles to get the 133FSB chips to POST ever again - 100 and 66FSBs recovered pretty fast, a restart and you would be back on track with the 100s, and the 66s were the "it just werkz" chips (both Mendocinos and a bunch of Coppermines between 566 and 700Mhz)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that all of those boards would work just fine @ 133 MHz FSB with native Slot 1 CPUs and PC133 RAM.