VOGONS


Help me to choose 90s PC

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First post, by psychofox

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Hello, my name is Psychofox and i am an addict.
I have to many retro comptuters on my computing area (8) and i need to narrow it down to 3.

There are IBM 5155 portable, 286-16, 386DX40, 486DX4 100, Pentium 200MMX, Pentium II Celeron 300, Pentium III 1Ghz and Pentium 4 3Ghz.
They are all great machines but reality is that they take lot of space and i dont use them all so often.

I think that 2 computers must definetly stay, and i need advice whitch computer to choose between them 😀

1. IBM 5155 portable - it is just one of the cooles machines that i have, just the noise that it makes is priceless 😀
2. ??
3. Pentium III 1000 , Voodoo 3 3000, Audigy + AWE32. It is quite universal machine - it can run great lots of late DOS period games and software to about year 2002 Windows XP era games.

So number 2 machine should be DOS workhorse. My first thought was to use 486 DX4 100 but maybe it should be even slower ?

Reply 1 of 24, by RandomStranger

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It depends on your intentions.

I wouldn't keep the IBM 5155 unless for collection purposes.

From purely using them to run software, I'd keep the Pentium III for mid-to-late 90's stuff and probably the 486DX4 for 80s to early-to-mid 90s stuff. It can be slowed down if necessary.
The rest is redundant from the usability/compatibility standpoint.

Anything that doesn't run on the P3, you should build a faster than P4 XP rig anyway.

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Reply 2 of 24, by psychofox

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Have you ever used an IBM 5155 (or 5150) ? IMHO the user experience, the operating sound, monochrome CRT monitor etc are things you cannot emulate on relatively modern 486 computer with VGA CRT even if the cpu speed can be slowed the same level.

Reply 3 of 24, by Anonymous Coward

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5155 is from the early 80s, so it shouldn't even be on the list. But, I tend to agree it's rather nice.

If you need to choose one machine between the 5155 and the PIII, I'd go with the 386 to cover the early 90s. I like 286s, but is also more of an 80's system (it may have been manufactured and sold in the 90s, but by then it was certainly obsolete).

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Reply 4 of 24, by Jo22

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It's perhaps not really helpful, but KVM switches can help to reduce space consumption a bit.
That way, two or more PCs can be used by a single keyboard/monitor/mouse.
Maybe that helps combining the the PCs into three groups or so. 286/386 group a, 486/Pentium group b, the Pentium II/III group c..
It's just an idea, of course. Space consumption alone isn't always the main problem.
Sometimes it's simply too much and we need to sort things out.

Edit: Let's just keep in mind that classic computers are hard to get by these days. 😔
And in the near future, they will be nearly unaffordable.
Personally, I wouldn't part with them, if it's avoidable.
I'd rather sell some of the internal parts that I can part with.
Say, an SB16 soundcard or a popular VGA card etc.
Because, they can be substituted by other models, more or less.
More or less, because cheap no-name cards aren't the same, but are mostly software compatible, at least.
Old games will run with them.

Edit: Or if it's just a money problem..
Classic AT cases are almost as pricey as the old hardware inside of them.
Maybe it's good enough to sell the historic chassis and put the old hardware into anti-static bags and store them in a box/in a closet.
That way, you/we still have something to play with in 10 years or so.

Last edited by Jo22 on 2022-06-15, 08:36. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 5 of 24, by psychofox

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Anonymous Coward wrote on 2022-06-15, 07:57:

5155 is from the early 80s, so it shouldn't even be on the list. But, I tend to agree it's rather nice.

Yes, the title of topic is a bit misleading. My main goal is to cover period from PC XT to about year 2001 (and maybe some games from Windows XP era). Pentium 3 can actually run quite lot DOS games but some titles are for some reason problematic (Descent I and II crash, Starcontrol 2 color palete is a mess and of course speed sensitive games...)

Jo22 wrote on 2022-06-15, 08:25:

It's perhaps not really helpful, but KVM switches can help to reduce space consumption a bit.

Yes, i have 4 port KVM switch and a 4 channel sound mixer. But i have 8 pc-s and there is miles of cables behind my desk, so problem is some of them just take space most of the time and have very low use.
I dont plan to sell all these nice machines (i have lots of storage space in basement) but i desperatly need some space in my office.

Last edited by psychofox on 2022-06-15, 08:42. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 6 of 24, by appiah4

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Impossible to know without knowing more specifications for the boxes. For example, what video/sound card does the P3 have, what OS is installed on each etc.

My gut feeling would be that you are best served with just keeping the 200MMX and P3 1GHz. That said, you would have to deck them out for the purpose.

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Reply 7 of 24, by psychofox

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-06-15, 08:42:

Impossible to know without knowing more specifications for the boxes. For example, what video/sound card does the P3 have, what OS is installed on each etc.

Yes, sorry.

PC 1.
IBM XT 5155 Portable
Nec V20 CPU
640kb RAM
20Mb Seagate ST225 MFM HDD
Tandy replica soundcard or SB 2.0 with Gameblaster chips.
OS: Dos 3.3

PC 2
????

PC 3.
Pentium III 1Ghz,
384Mb RAM
32Gb SD card for storage
Voodoo 3 3000
SB Audigy with front panel (for Windows apps and games)
SB AWE 32 CT3900 with Dreamblaster S2 (sometimes i use istead of S2 Nec Yamaha clone daughterboard or SC55).
Gravis Ultrasound ACE

OS: DOS 6.22, Windows 98, windows 2000

The computer between them will have probably SB16 + MT32 and maybe Gravis Ultrasound aswell.

Reply 8 of 24, by appiah4

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I really see no practical use for PC1 to be honest. PC3 also makes any other fast DOS PC redundant. I'd say just pick the 386DX-40 as PC2 and P3-1GHz as PC3 at this point. PC1 will probably just be a novelty collector's item for you.

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Reply 9 of 24, by Jo22

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The 5155 has a nice MFM drive, which hums and makes a cool squeak sound if files are accessed..
And it has a real CGA, a glowing amber monitor..
I think it's ideal for diving into (to immerse in) an 80s atmosphere.
The hardware was around when the first Terminator film was in the movies.
The NEC V20 is also cool, because it's not fully emulated yet (esp. the 8080 emulation mode).
There's no emulator that has it, not even PCem/86Box.

That being said, I don't know if it's really needed in the room (as in: set up).

The idea with the GameBlaster or SB2 makes sense to me.
I had a similar idea when I repaired my Schneider Tower AT (a 286 PC).
Because, a PC that hosts such cards should be slow enough.
a) Because OPL2 is speed sensitive/games from back then had short delays due to the slower CPUs.
b) Because mainly 1980s games had GameBlaster support.

Edit: Same goes for Tandy 3 Voice.
Most games from the 80s had support for it.
An XT era system can have Tandy on the old port address, also?
AT-style Tandys had them on another addesss, I vaguely remember.
So newer games looked for the Tandy on different locations.

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 10 of 24, by Tetrium

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If you are going to store them, you could always opt to just try to store like half the systems for a few months, then swap some out of storage for some you kept in active use. That way you'll find out what you end up missing the most and which systems you ended up not missing so much without having to take the chance at selling (or otherwise ridding permanently) systems you might regret later.

Lots of people end up regretting it later. Or they sell and then a few years later buy similar items back but for 3 times the price or something (even though this does mean you'll have more space in the mean time 😋 ).

You could for instance store the P4 now and take it out again during winter to help save up on your electricity bill 😜

What to get rid off, well you clearly don't want to get rid of the IBM but ask a different person and you'll probably get a different answer. Fair enough to acknowledge the IBM's unique character, though it's not the most practical system to have taking up space. it being more unique can also make it harder to get replacement parts, like the monitor for instance.
The P3 1000MHz is a system I'd also keep. I'd probably also keep the DX4-100 or maybe the 386. The 286 is more similar to the IBM I suppose but it really depends on what other parts are included there and what you use your current systems for. And of course what games you play the most 😜

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Reply 11 of 24, by Datadrainer

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Hi @psychofox.
My home configuration and issues are like yours. A big storage room, a small office room, a 4-port (VGA/PS2) KVM and (too) many computers. What I do is to store efficiently my machines in the storage room and put out the few I need at a given time. So are in my office only the computers I'm actually really using. Three, as I speak.
Maybe it can be a way to go for you too.

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Reply 12 of 24, by bbking67

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The magic period for me was from 386/VGA to early pentium era... yes I know it won't cut it for the directx and 3d games (depends how far you go into the pentiums i guess), butbasically this is when the pc outshone the amiga and atari st for gaming for the first time and sound cards were mandatory.

Reply 13 of 24, by Intel486dx33

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If your just about playing DOS games and running DOS programs I would forget about hardware proprietary computers

You may want to Consider this for good game compatibility and system performance.

486dx66 0r 100 or AMD 133 build.
Of which can be slowed down to 286@20 mhz by disabling cache setting in bios.
Add a Cirrus logic 5428 or 5429 video card
16mb system ram
Sound blaster 16
DOS/Win3x

Pentium 75 thru 233mmx can be slowed down to 386@20mhz in bios.
Add an S3 trio video card
DOS/Win3x/Win95
AWE 64
64mb system ram

AMD K6 300 thru 550 can be slowed to 386@20mhz in bios.
Add a Voodoo-3
Win98
Sound Blaster live 5.1 or AWE64
256mb system ram

Pentium-3 is a Win98se/ME or Win2000 computer.
Add a ATI, Nvidia Geforce or Voodoo-3
256mb system ram
Sound blaster Audigy 2zs or AWE 64

Pentium-4 is a Win-XP computer year 2000 not 1990’s
Add a ATI or Nvidia graphics.
4gb system ram
Sound Blaster Audigy 2zs

Last edited by Intel486dx33 on 2022-06-15, 16:04. Edited 4 times in total.

Reply 14 of 24, by pixel_workbench

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For practical purposes, a Pentium can run at 386 and 486 performance levels by disabling different caches, and can do early 3D games as well. That one makes the most sense to keep.

But the 486 and earlier are more interesting from a retro hardware perspective, with VLB, SIMM memory, AT form factor and connectors, and jumpers galore.

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Reply 15 of 24, by psychofox

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Thanks for all your suggestions.

I did yesterday lot of testing with 3 different PCs (486dx30, 486dx4 100 and Pentium 120) and ended up with dx4

So, PC 2 is:
Minitower case with Turbo button and display 😀
Mainboard: Shuttle HOT-419 (that one is one of the first PC components, that i purchased with money i earned myself)
CPU: Am 486 DX4 100
RAM 32Mb
GPU: ATI Mach 32 VLB with 2Mb Vram (3D bench score was 55,5)
CF to IDE adapter with 4Gb CF card for storage. Most of the time this combo works fine. But there seems to be some sort of problem with CF to ISA adapter, sometimes i run with this error: Data error reading drive C: (Abort,Retry, Fail). What causest that?

And now the interesting part (for me at least), the sound cards.
I have on my collection about 40 different ISA sound cards, most of them are quite common SB clones (with ESS, ALS, Crystal and OPTI chipsets) and of course Creative ISA cards from SB 2.0 to AWE64.
But there are some not so common cards with integrated WS. Some of them sound really good, but not on all games. So i wanted to use as much different cards i possibly could.

1. One card, that i really like is Aztech Sound Galaxy Waverider Pro 32. It has OPL clone, WSS and nice balanced Wavetable sound. MPU is on port 300 SB 240, 7, 1
2. On my computers there is always room for Gravis cards. Here i use GUS ACE. Great little gem with clean sound. port 260, 5,7
3. SW60XG. You cant go wrong with that one, nice punchy bass and very clean sound. Almost professional sound card. MPU port 320

These three cards worked together without problems.

4. But I recently purcased Dreamblaster S2, that tiny piece is my new favorite. So i at first i installed S2 on SB16 (with ASP), but there started conflicts. No problem with Yamaha or GUS but Aztech is a picky one. It stores its settings on eprom, and for some reason it forgot everything, when SB16 was installed. After every reboot MPU was disabled. So i tested different other soundcards with daughterboard header. And after 10 cards i ended up with a cheap card with crystal chipset. It is nicely detected with unisound, and everything seems to be working finally. Of course i have tested this complicated combo only a couple games - Descent, Duke 3d and Doom - there might still be some problems hidden.

Will do some thorough testing evening and post couple pictures.

Reply 16 of 24, by appiah4

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psychofox wrote on 2022-06-17, 06:05:
1. One card, that i really like is Aztech Sound Galaxy Waverider Pro 32. It has OPL clone, WSS and nice balanced Wavetable sou […]
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1. One card, that i really like is Aztech Sound Galaxy Waverider Pro 32. It has OPL clone, WSS and nice balanced Wavetable sound. MPU is on port 300 SB 240, 7, 1
2. On my computers there is always room for Gravis cards. Here i use GUS ACE. Great little gem with clean sound. port 260, 5,7
3. SW60XG. You cant go wrong with that one, nice punchy bass and very clean sound. Almost professional sound card. MPU port 320

These three cards worked together without problems.

4. But I recently purcased Dreamblaster S2, that tiny piece is my new favorite. So i at first i installed S2 on SB16 (with ASP), but there started conflicts. No problem with Yamaha or GUS but Aztech is a picky one. It stores its settings on eprom, and for some reason it forgot everything, when SB16 was installed. After every reboot MPU was disabled. So i tested different other soundcards with daughterboard header. And after 10 cards i ended up with a cheap card with crystal chipset. It is nicely detected with unisound, and everything seems to be working finally. Of course i have tested this complicated combo only a couple games - Descent, Duke 3d and Doom - there might still be some problems hidden.

Will do some thorough testing evening and post couple pictures.

I have the Aztech Sound Galaxy Waverider 32+ and I'm not sure if they share drivers, but for me that card's onboard wavetable required an immense TSR to be loaded. It is a great sounding card and one of my favorite novelties but I never managed to get it to play ball with other cards in my systems or found it practical from a memory management perspective for gaming. You will also find that the S2 gives it a good run for its wavetable quality, so in essence you may consider doing what I did and remove it altogether, replace it with a YMF71x card with the S2 installed.

I mean, it's a very neat looking card, and I also love it. So much that I really wanted to build a PC around this card at some point.. But then MK8330 was released so I don't need to do that anymore 😁

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 17 of 24, by AlexZ

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I would keep Pentium III 1000 and sell the rest. It can handle most of DOS games, some with disabled cache. Having 2nd machine would be justified in my opinion only if you wanted to play games on network. In that case I would have two almost identical machines so that no one would be in disadvantage. It also helps in case you need to troubleshoot instability issues.

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Reply 18 of 24, by Gmlb256

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^ I wouldn't sell the IBM PC 5155 (unless the OP can get a better XT-class machine) as it can run the early 80s games properly which requires an 8088 CPU running exactly at 4.77 MHz.

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Reply 19 of 24, by AlexZ

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IBM PC 5155 has a really tiny screen, not so good for playing games. Games requiring exactly 4.77Mhz can be played on DOS Box.

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