VOGONS


First post, by Sedrosken

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I have a Pentium III 1GHz build with a Voodoo3 3000 and Audigy2ZS running Windows ME. As part of the driver install for the Audigy2, the wizard upgraded my version of DirectX to 9.0a with no option to cancel. This caused issues in a few games -- as far as I'm concerned DX9.0a is a glorified beta release -- and now I'm considering swapping it out for my Yamaha YMF744 card as it's a little more DOS friendly (some Glide patches for DOS games sound awful on the Audigy's SB emulation, although I'm using a 486 build to cover most of my DOS library) and it has that neat Sensaura 3D to play with. Does it have some form of EAX compatibility, for games like Half Life, Diablo II, etc? It's not the end of the world if it doesn't, I have a whole other machine with a really nice X-Fi, but it'd be nice if I could experience environmental effects on this build too.

What are my options as far as downgrading DirectX, preferably to something like 8.0 or 8.1? 9.0c is just too new for this machine, in my opinion. It hasn't caused any issues that I can pinpoint on it, at least nothing like 9.0a, but it just feels wrong. But if I have to reinstall, then I may as well just leave it alone until I can actually properly blame it for something.

As an aside, I've also heard that the EMU10k-based cards abuse the PCI spec -- how true is this, does anyone know? And, I mean, realistically an Audigy2ZS is a pretty lopsided card for a 1GHz PIII running ME anyway, I just used it because it was what I had nearby when I was putting it together.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 1 of 9, by leileilol

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If the driver requires a specific DirectX version and installs that, then assume it depends on it. The major changes of DirectX updates are API interfaces, and dropping that earlier beyond what a driver cares about would likely lead for the worse. Also Creative are no strangers to bugs...

SBLive on DirectX6 didn't have stellar DOS support either. It's all inherited and iterated upon Ensoniq's AudioPCI emulation TSRs anyway, generations of technical debt.

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Reply 2 of 9, by Sedrosken

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Well, yeah, but if I swap the card for something that can survive just fine on DirectX7, then it stands to reason that I could downgrade the DirectX version without any trouble provided I did it right. Is there a procedure for that or is it just "copy the contents of the cab over C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM and say yes to overwrite everything"?

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 3 of 9, by Meatball

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You don't need DirectX verion 9.0a to get the Audigy 2 ZS working reliably in Windows 9x. I'm going to guess it's because of some kind of software mixing DirectX 9 is required - like for the NVidia Soundstorm (it can also be installed without the mixer using previous versions of DirectX).

Use Device Manager to install the Driver. The VXD version will be inside a directory labeled "VXD." You may need to bounce back and forth during the installation between the 98_SE and COMMON subdirectories (you will be prompted). The INFs inside the VXD directory are labeled:

Emu10kx.inf
SB16.inf

You can leave ME at DirectX 7.1 (it's default), or upgrade to DirectX 8.2 (DirectPlay update makes it 8.2, otherwise it's 8.1). Voodoo3 has a beta release for DirectX 8, also. (Only DirectDraw is compliant, of course)

You can search for "DirectX Uninstaller." It erases whatever DirectX version is installed, and then you can reinstall after the reboot. Probably not an issue and more than likely cosmetic, but reinstalling DirectX7 on ME won't get you back to 7.1 - "merely" 7.0A. If there is an installer specifically for 7.1 and ME, I haven't seen it (or looked hard enough). Maybe there's an SDK somewhere.

Reply 4 of 9, by Sedrosken

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The way I found that seems to have done the job was to uninstall DirectX entirely using 98lite, which I had installed so I could more surgically remove certain things I don't need like System Restore, the Task Scheduler, so on and so forth. (I take whole disk images as backups.) Then you can run the installer for the version you want (I went with 8.1 in this instance, as I have a few DX8 games installed) and it should Just Work™. I unironically had more issues getting my old sound drivers uninstalled and the new ones installed and working than I did downgrading DirectX, for future reference. But that DirectX Uninstaller idea sounds good also, I'll keep it in mind if I ever need it again.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 5 of 9, by swaaye

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DirectX Buster is the util I frequently use for this. Mostly with 98SE.

Something to think about with VXDs is they were being phased out. VXDs are low level and fast but they are also sources of instability. I usually try to figure out the DirectX version audio VXD drivers recommend and go with that. You want them to be in their happy place.

Reply 6 of 9, by Sedrosken

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Well, the YMF744 is happiest with DirectX 7 according to its latest drivers from what I can tell. I left it at 8.1 because I have a few DX8-era games installed (Max Payne, The Sims, etc) that can run on fixed-function cards but otherwise require the updated libraries.

The Audigy2ZS is just kind of an inappropriate card for a PIII anyway -- you can make the argument it could have been a later upgrade, but if that was the case, why leave the (by that point poorly aging) Voodoo3 instead of upgrading to something like a Ti4200 or Radeon 9600 or somesuch? Yeah, it's got EAX, and that's fun, but I don't really need it -- the Sensaura stuff the YMF744 provides appears to be A3D compatible, and works really well even over speakers. Stuff like Diablo II doesn't use it -- 3D audio is grayed out there -- but UT99 and other stuff closer to the era of games this thing should be targetting work fine with it.

Nanto: H61H2-AM3, 4GB, GTS250 1GB, SB0730, 512GB SSD, XP USP4
Rithwic: EP-61BXM-A, Celeron 300A@450, 768MB, GF2MX400/V2, YMF744, 128GB SD2IDE, 98SE (Kex)
Cragstone: Alaris Cougar, 486BL2-66, 16MB, GD5428 VLB, CT2800, 16GB SD2IDE, 95CNOIE

Reply 7 of 9, by Joseph_Joestar

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Sedrosken wrote on 2022-07-27, 22:24:

Yeah, it's got EAX, and that's fun, but I don't really need it -- the Sensaura stuff the YMF744 provides appears to be A3D compatible, and works really well even over speakers. Stuff like Diablo II doesn't use it -- 3D audio is grayed out there -- but UT99 and other stuff closer to the era of games this thing should be targetting work fine with it.

Depending on which driver version you use for the YMF744 card, you may be able to install a Sensaura upgrade patch. According to Sensinfo.exe this will give you A3D 1.0 as well as EAX 1.0 and EAX 2.0. However, A3D 2.0 games like Quake 3 likely won't work.

The EAX implementation on YMF7x4 cards doesn't sound too great, and seems to be relying on the CPU a fair bit, so it's probably emulated, at least in part. On the other hand, A3D 1.0 works quite well, especially in games like Thief, Unreal Tournament and Deus Ex. I've posted some of my own experiences in this thread: Sensaura on Yamaha YMF 7x4 cards

BTW, a SBLive card, using its stock drivers from the CD, will work fine with DirectX 7. Its EAX implementation is fully hardware based and sounds much nicer. Finding the right driver CD for a particular SBLive can be a bit of a hassle, but SB0100 models have generally worked fine for me.

PC#1: Pentium MMX 166 / Soyo SY-5BT / S3 Trio64V+ / Voodoo1 / YMF719 / AWE64 Gold / SC-155
PC#2: AthlonXP 2100+ / ECS K7VTA3 / Voodoo3 / Audigy2 / Vortex2
PC#3: Athlon64 3400+ / Asus K8V-MX / 5900XT / Audigy2
PC#4: i5-3570K / MSI Z77A-G43 / GTX 970 / X-Fi

Reply 8 of 9, by squeeb

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Another option: replace the directx installer files with 8.1 - I tested this on a machine running ME and it worked.

Just copy all files off the Audigy 2 CD/ISO into a folder somewhere. Then download DX 8.1 (the version that extracts into a directory of your choosing). Replace the DX9 files with the DX8.1 files. Run the Audigy 2 setup program.

- FX-6300/ R9 290x/Sound Blaster X-Fi (Win7)
- Pentium III/Matrox G400 Max/Aureal Vortex 2 (Win98)
- Celeron/Radeon 9250/SB Live! (Win95)
- MT32-pi, Roland SC-88, Yamaha MU500

Reply 9 of 9, by Zeerex

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I just used DirectX Eradicator 2.o last night and previously, it works great but it removes it completely, then you install whichever version you want:

https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/dire … eradicator.html