TrashPanda wrote on 2022-08-07, 08:36:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-07, 08:23:

It does seem like old hardware plus modern psu wouldn’t be too spendy.

But solar man. I run my computers off grid on solar.

I love the Solar setup we have here, being Australia it works amazingly well and for the most part offsets the entire power bill, sadly that will be soon changing as the power utility is lowering feed in tariffs again. At one point they were paying us for power but the last few years the feed in tariff has been slashed and is due to be hit again, so it we will be paying more and more of the bill until the utility gets the feed in for free, might take a few years to get to that point.

The other option is to install a battery bank and have the Solar charge that and run the computers from that.

Batteries are definitely the way to go, if you find some that are very efficient. That's my long term goal.

yeah, being off grid I am on lithium batteries.

Akuma wrote on 2022-08-05, 07:50:

The consumption of old hardware has become less desirable, now that energy costs are increasing. I'm just curious how people are dealing with this or have any good solutions. I think we can all benefit from some good advice.

Personally I don't think it's much of an issue. Many eras of PCs will typically consume much less power (basically anything Pentium 3 and prior is a non-issue regarding power usage) and the systems that are less energy efficient are often still more energy efficient than modern rigs, especially the higher end ones tailored for gaming.
Older CRT monitors however may actually sue quite a lot of power, but my more modern TV uses about the same amount of power iirc. Older flat screens may use somewhat less power but it's been years since I last measured so my memory on this is a bit vague.

On top of that, whenever you're heating up your house during winter, every watt of power your computer uses is a watt of power that your central heating will not have to use. So using a less efficient PSU during winter will actually be less inefficient as any amount of wasted energy is converted into heat which will heat up your living place which is heat you don't need to have to put energy into by other means.

One third thing is that I reckon the majority of people here will be using a single system at a time.

However, things may be somewhat different if you use a lot of systems simultaneously or will live in hotter climates (I live in The Netherlands and central heating here is usually running from november to april or so, depending on the temperatures outside). Then things may be somewhat different. Also physically disconnecting all unused systems and items when not in use is something I always do anyway (if only to protect it from for instance a lightning strike, regardless of how remote that chance may be, but also so it can't catch fire while I'm out the door).

So in short, personally I think it's not much of an issue.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 04:38:

yeah, being off grid I am on lithium batteries.

I'm so hesitant to add lithium batteries to my system. I've just had so many devices turn into e-waste because the batteries are the first thing to go. I really don't want to do that to my house. I keep hearing the technology is getting better, but I just don't trust it. Actually the solar installer I went with had me visit a site he's working on now, and that guy already had one of his batteries go bad on him inside 3 years, and the company is fighting tooth and nail against honoring the warrantee.

I don't know what's after lithium batteries, but I hope it's soon.

Namrok wrote on 2022-08-08, 14:38:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 04:38:

yeah, being off grid I am on lithium batteries.

I'm so hesitant to add lithium batteries to my system. I've just had so many devices turn into e-waste because the batteries are the first thing to go. I really don't want to do that to my house. I keep hearing the technology is getting better, but I just don't trust it. Actually the solar installer I went with had me visit a site he's working on now, and that guy already had one of his batteries go bad on him inside 3 years, and the company is fighting tooth and nail against honoring the warrantee.

I don't know what's after lithium batteries, but I hope it's soon.

The lithium on my house is over 10 years old now. Doesn’t seem like it will be needing replacment any time soon

Namrok wrote on 2022-08-08, 14:38:

I don't know what's after lithium batteries, but I hope it's soon.

People are working on solid state batteries as the next big thing. Don't know much about them yet, but they're supposed to be more efficient and longer lasting / more durable.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 15:03:

Namrok wrote on 2022-08-08, 14:38:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 04:38:

yeah, being off grid I am on lithium batteries.

I'm so hesitant to add lithium batteries to my system. I've just had so many devices turn into e-waste because the batteries are the first thing to go. I really don't want to do that to my house. I keep hearing the technology is getting better, but I just don't trust it. Actually the solar installer I went with had me visit a site he's working on now, and that guy already had one of his batteries go bad on him inside 3 years, and the company is fighting tooth and nail against honoring the warrantee.

I don't know what's after lithium batteries, but I hope it's soon.

The lithium on my house is over 10 years old now. Doesn’t seem like it will be needing replacment any time soon

With 10 year old rechargable lithium technology, you're well past the life span of the cells and that is a fire hazard. 10 years ago, lithium cells were only good for 300-400 charges, and the longevity curve says you'd be at less than 20% original capacity.

Micro modular reactors and Hydrogen fuel cells are the real future, not solar or wind (too dependent on a constant and we have "climate changes" 🤣)

wiretap wrote on 2022-08-08, 23:19:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 15:03:

Namrok wrote on 2022-08-08, 14:38:

I'm so hesitant to add lithium batteries to my system. I've just had so many devices turn into e-waste because the batteries are the first thing to go. I really don't want to do that to my house. I keep hearing the technology is getting better, but I just don't trust it. Actually the solar installer I went with had me visit a site he's working on now, and that guy already had one of his batteries go bad on him inside 3 years, and the company is fighting tooth and nail against honoring the warrantee.

I don't know what's after lithium batteries, but I hope it's soon.

The lithium on my house is over 10 years old now. Doesn’t seem like it will be needing replacment any time soon

With 10 year old rechargable lithium technology, you're well past the life span of the cells and that is a fire hazard. 10 years ago, lithium cells were only good for 300-400 charges, and the longevity curve says you'd be at less than 20% original capacity.

I’m not sure what to say other than to dissagree. My capacity hasn’t noticeably changed since I installed them 5? Years ago. They are used nissan leaf cells. The nissan leaf was very hard on its batteries. Because they designed it with no thermal management.

They are now temperature regulated and the depth of discharge is low, and not full charged.

The ratings you are talking about which, your numbers don’t sound correct, anyway, don’t apply to how I am using them with shallow mid range cycles.

The first step in safety with flammable battery tech is containment. Mine are in separate structure from the main house.

Lithium tech (yes even lifepo4, people need to get this through their stubborn heads and stop saying that it isn’t) is a fire risk at any age.

Proper safety systems and containment is essential to any battery installation.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-09, 02:16:

I’m not sure what to say other than to dissagree. My capacity hasn’t noticeably changed since I installed them 5? Years ago. The […]
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wiretap wrote on 2022-08-08, 23:19:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-08, 15:03:

The lithium on my house is over 10 years old now. Doesn’t seem like it will be needing replacment any time soon

With 10 year old rechargable lithium technology, you're well past the life span of the cells and that is a fire hazard. 10 years ago, lithium cells were only good for 300-400 charges, and the longevity curve says you'd be at less than 20% original capacity.

I’m not sure what to say other than to dissagree. My capacity hasn’t noticeably changed since I installed them 5? Years ago. They are used nissan leaf cells. The nissan leaf was very hard on its batteries. Because they designed it with no thermal management.

They are now temperature regulated and the depth of discharge is low, and not full charged.

The ratings you are talking about which, your numbers don’t sound correct, anyway, don’t apply to how I am using them with shallow mid range cycles.

The first step in safety with flammable battery tech is containment. Mine are in separate structure from the main house.

Lithium tech (yes even lifepo4, people need to get this through their stubborn heads and stop saying that it isn’t) is a fire risk at any age.

Proper safety systems and containment is essential to any battery installation.

I agree, I see no reason that batteries designed for hard use wouldn't fare much better under lighter controlled conditions and so long as they are monitored and maintained they should keep on working well past their planned obsolescence age. I personally hate LiPo batteries but I can see that right now they are incredibly practical and hard to find an equal replacement for and honestly modern LiPo batteries have a huge life span if cared for and used with a modern charging controller.

Honestly the way it’s going I am expecting another decade. Maybe more from them

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-09, 02:33:

Honestly the way it’s going I am expecting another decade. Maybe more from them

The question is, how would you deal with one when it eventually does start to bloat, smaller LiPo are easy to deal with just throw them in a "Fire Proof Dish" as Big Clive would say and administer some gentle rupturing when outside. But bigger bloated ones ...you cant exactly throw them away and unless you have a recycling service close by I wouldn't be transporting one either.

They are compressed. They can’t bloat.

Large format pouch cells, prismatics whathave you are supposed to be mechanically compressed.

Also, bulging is often a result of over charging/discharging. Which I don’t do. And have safeties and backup safeties to prevent.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-08-09, 02:50:

They are compressed. They can’t bloat.

Large format pouch cells, prismatics whathave you are supposed to be mechanically compressed.

Also, bulging is often a result of over charging/discharging. Which I don’t do. And have safeties and backup safeties to prevent.

So for you it'll just be as easy as calling or visiting the recycling center with one.

I wasn't sure how they dealt with it for the larger cells as I have seen pictures of older bloated LiPo car batteries.

Usually people who don’t know what they are doing (over discharge, don’t compress) manage to bloat them. There are pics of nissan leaf cells bloated after someone abuses them also.

Speaking of cars: the oil crises of the 70s killed off those American landyachts. Does anyone think a prolonged energy crisis might spell the end of x86?

ARMchair generals love to paint x86 as a bloated energy-hungry architecture like the gas-guzzlers cruising the highways of the Carter administration. With datacentres going offline during the recent heatwave, might the server market switch to something less toasty? (Kill me now if it's fruit-based).

Big Pink wrote on 2022-08-09, 19:03:

Speaking of cars: the oil crises of the 70s killed off those American landyachts. Does anyone think a prolonged energy crisis might spell the end of x86?

ARMchair generals love to paint x86 as a bloated energy-hungry architecture like the gas-guzzlers cruising the highways of the Carter administration. With datacentres going offline during the recent heatwave, might the server market switch to something less toasty? (Kill me now if it's fruit-based).

It's not that x86 can't be energy efficient, it's that power efficiency generally has not been a priority.

I don't think it's the computers themselves that kills the power costs, it's those bleegin CRTs. Those things suck up way more power than my PCs do.

And retro hardware, some of it at least, does not use that much power. I have 6 old 486 laptops, those things hardly use anything even when plugged in. Especially the NEC Versas, somehow those manage to run on 30 year old batteries for 30 minutes after I zap em with a car charger for a second. I could probably cover the top with a small solar panel and run the darned thing like a solar calculator, 🤣.

Probably the biggest power guzzler - my guitar amplifier. 120 Watt Bugera halfstack. The only reason I still have a halfstacks as a musician is the bloody "mythos" of rock n' roll calls for a backline full of enough speakers to cause a hurricane for the old fogies who refuse to believe a digital effects board direct into the sound board can sound just as good, or even better (at least when someone capable like me is programming it). 99.7% of the time at home I'm using a little 19v Line6 HD500 into my Mac or 486.

Put a club hammer though my 19" Dell monitor a few days ago. Instant power saver for free 😉

😢

We are at the point where we should maybe start repairing crts they are getting pretty rare