VOGONS


First post, by Harlock

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Hey, I did a bit of research on this, and I see that opinions are quite often in contrast.
Do you think a Voodoo 2 is overkill for a Pentium 1 MMX 166Mhz?
Or a Voodoo 1 would be more than enough?

As I understood, a Voodoo 1 would have less to no compatibility issues with (potentially) several games, while a Voodoo 2 would still be faster, despite the CPU bottleneck, but is that pretty much it?
Any opinion? 😀

Reply 1 of 13, by vintagely

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Even a Pentium 200-233 mmx can't max out a voodoo 1 card, so i guess it is the best choice for you. Don't go for a Voodoo 2 unless you have a Pentium 2 or AMD k6-2+ or k6-III at least as it would be badly bottlenecked by the cpu.

Reply 2 of 13, by SScorpio

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

What are your goals with the system? Personally, my P233MMX system is mostly for DOS, and the Voodoo 1 I have in it has full compatibility with the DOS Voodoo games.

I could squeeze a little more performance with a Voodoo 2, but for later DOS and 9X games I have an A64 system and I'm using Glide wrappers.

So my vote is for a Voodoo 1 4MB, stay away from the fancy 6MB models that the vast majority of games won't touch, and introduces compatibility issues.

Reply 3 of 13, by NostalgicAslinger

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
SScorpio wrote on 2022-08-06, 12:45:

So my vote is for a Voodoo 1 4MB, stay away from the fancy 6MB models that the vast majority of games won't touch, and introduces compatibility issues.

The variable "SST_TMUMEM_SIZE=2" or in the driver settings with the name "limit texture memory size to 2MB" helps and limits the texturememory to 2MB, so a 6MB and 8MB Voodoo1 runs like a 4MB Standard Voodoo Graphics (2MB for the TMU and 2MB for the FBI). This works on my Skywell Magic 3D Plus1 with 8MB, for example Descent 2, Screamer II and Rally only runs with this variable on a >6MB Voodoo Graphics.

Reply 4 of 13, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
vintagely wrote on 2022-08-06, 11:02:

Even a Pentium 200-233 mmx can't max out a voodoo 1 card, so i guess it is the best choice for you. Don't go for a Voodoo 2 unless you have a Pentium 2 or AMD k6-2+ or k6-III at least as it would be badly bottlenecked by the cpu.

Sorry to tell you, but in some very important games (such as GLQuake), even a Voodoo 2 will bottleneck a Pentium MMX 233 on a good 430TX chipset motherboard (and that's at 640 x 480!).

That being said, I think that a Voodoo 1 would be a nice pair for a Pentium MMX 166.
My favorite Voodoo 1 cards are either the Orchid Righteous 3D (I love the clicking sound from the mechanical relay) or the Diamond Monster 3D.
The Orchid Righteous 3D is shorter, and that can be an advantage on certain (badly designed) motherboards.

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Socket 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 5 of 13, by Harlock

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks guys for the replies.
Period correctness is not really a concern, tho I'm also oriented towards the Voodoo 1.
On the other hand I might have an opportunity to get a Voodoo 2 12Mb for a fair price, and that's why I'm a bit undecided.

Not sure about the benefits, I reckon that CPU is a bottleneck here, so would games like Unreal see a tangible benefit from a voodoo 2 12MB on that system?
Looks like compatibility can be fixed with some tweaks and patches.

Otherwise a Diamond Monster 3D is still a good choice, I guess 😀

Reply 6 of 13, by maxtherabbit

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

IMO a voodoo2 would go to waste at 166MHz, but if you can get one cheaper than a v1 send it

Last edited by maxtherabbit on 2022-08-06, 22:50. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 7 of 13, by Meatball

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
Harlock wrote on 2022-08-06, 21:53:
Thanks guys for the replies. Period correctness is not really a concern, tho I'm also oriented towards the Voodoo 1. On the othe […]
Show full quote

Thanks guys for the replies.
Period correctness is not really a concern, tho I'm also oriented towards the Voodoo 1.
On the other hand I might have an opportunity to get a Voodoo 2 12Mb for a fair price, and that's why I'm a bit undecided.

Not sure about the benefits, I reckon that CPU is a bottleneck here, so would games like Unreal see a tangible benefit from a voodoo 2 12MB on that system?
Looks like compatibility can be fixed with some tweaks and patches.

Otherwise a Diamond Monster 3D is still a good choice, I guess 😀

Unless there's a game compatibility issue, get the Voodoo2 if it's a great price. I bet you'll upgrade at some point, haha...

Or get both!

See this post for DOS compatibility: Voodoo 2 DOS Glide compatibility matrix

And this post to compare Unreal (and other game performance) on Socket 7 CPUs with a Voodoo1 and Voodoo2: Voodoo 1 CPU & VGA Limitations

From the above, it looks like Unreal with a Voodoo2 is at least playable on the faster MMX's versus a Voodoo1. Enjoyable? Up to you, of course.

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 8 of 13, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
bloodem wrote:

even a Voodoo 2 will bottleneck a Pentium MMX 233 on a good 430TX chipset motherboard

Eh, no. That's mostly double buffering issue, which plagued all early 3D accelerators.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 9 of 13, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-08-07, 04:29:
bloodem wrote:

even a Voodoo 2 will bottleneck a Pentium MMX 233 on a good 430TX chipset motherboard

Eh, no. That's mostly double buffering issue, which plagued all early 3D accelerators.

It's not. The Voodoo 2 can only do ~ 108 FPS @ 640 x 480 (no matter how fast the CPU/platform is). At 800 x 600 it barely goes above 70.
A Pentium MMX 233 with a good sound card can do 110+ FPS in GLQuake and if you overclock it @ 266 MHz, it can reach 125 FPS. 😀

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Socket 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 10 of 13, by The Serpent Rider

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

That's only in GLQuake. Forsaken still scales beyond PMMX capabilities.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 11 of 13, by bloodem

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-08-07, 16:05:

That's only in GLQuake. Forsaken still scales beyond PMMX capabilities.

Yes, for sure. Same for Quake 2, where the Pentium MMX is a bottleneck even when overclocked (although, @ 292 MHz, the PMMX can almost reach 60 FPS in Q2 - again, with a good sound card).
So, yeah, obviously the Pentium MMX 233 will bottleneck the Voodoo 2 more often than not, however I would argue that the reverse is true for the Voodoo 1 (which, more often than not, will bottleneck the PMMX 233).

All in all, when testing Pentium MMX platforms (which I always tend to overclock anyway @ 266 or 292 MHz), I usually go even more overkill by using a Voodoo 3 2000 PCI.
It might sound crazy, however the Voodoo 3 2000 allows you to actually play games like Unreal, GLQuake, Quake 2, etc, at 1024 x 768. And, especially on an overclocked PMMX, these games are incredibly smooth and playable... which to me is just amazing (knowing what shitty framerates & visual quality I had to endure 24 years ago on my PMMX 166).

2 x PGA132 / 5 x Socket 3 / 9 x Socket 7 / 12 x SS7 / 1 x Socket 8 / 14 x Slot 1 / 5 x Slot A
5 x Socket 370 / 8 x Socket A / 2 x Socket 478 / 2 x Socket 754 / 3 x Socket 939 / 7 x LGA775 / 1 x LGA1155
Current rig: Ryzen 5 3600X
Backup rig: Core i7 7700k

Reply 12 of 13, by mothergoose729

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie

A voodoo 1 is a great pairing for a pentium MMX, but I wouldn't say that a voodoo 2 is completely wasted at all.

I can't think of a single DOS voodoo game I couldn't patch to work with a voodoo 2... I am know there are at least two or three but all the ones I had any interest at all in playing worked fine on my v2 sli.

In windows, I think you will probably be able to find many examples where a voodoo 2 is a little faster. Especially if you pair it with a hardware accelerated sound card.

Reply 13 of 13, by leileilol

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

any are fine. they're light on drivers and ubiquitous in PMMX's heyday and the only early 3d card that blends correctly, so they're fine. 'wasted' is just silly aftermarket concerns that buy into the forsaken bench myths (because a playstation port of a simpler-than-descent game is so pc representative).

apsosig.png
long live PCem