opencomputedesign wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:01:

So I guess my question is, is this totally dumb and misguided?

For backup copies 3 thru infinity, perfectly applicable.

CwF wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:09:

opencomputedesign wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:01:

So I guess my question is, is this totally dumb and misguided?

For backup copies 3 thru infinity, perfectly applicable.

Cool, thanks!

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

DosFreak wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:42:

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos.... […]
Show full quote

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

All of this could be covered with a nice Compaq slot 2 Pentium 3 Xeon server along with PSU redundancy and spares being readily available, I have two in storage that still power and boot even after sitting unused for 10+ years, I consider them to be pretty much unkillable.

not sure I would use a system as old as the OP is suggesting but I understand their concerns in regards to reliability but old hardware tends to be unreliable for long term data storage purposes, and socket 7 is just as prone to dying as any other hardware is. (Even more so if its not being used much, powering on old systems still has me crossing fingers and looking for magic smoke)

My 2 cents :

AFAIU, that concerns about hardware failure expressed have to do mainly with

a) BGA soldered components going bad
b) capacitors goings bad

IMHO, theses issues can be delayed/avoided/mitigated by choosing a modern(ish) CPU and motherboard combination which

1) is well designed (no capacitors wedged between heatsinks, for example) and uses quality capacitors
2) is not running close to it thermal limits
3) has proper (or overkill) cooling/airflow that avoids leaving hotspots
4) is fed power through a well regulated, low rippled PSU
5) is cheap enough and compact enough that you can easily store a spare or two for use in case of failure

My "rules" :

- heat is the enemy
- Nothing is ever eternal (electromigration will eventually kill every IC, though it might take decades, centuries or more in some (many?) cases)
- Older hardware is not immune to the above
- Cheap redundancy/having spares in stock is a good insurance policy against future (otherwise potentially costly) issues/failures

DosFreak wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:42:

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" 😜

Things to consider: Security OS support RAM amount for OS and usage Amount of RAM motherboard can cache Processor speed Motherbo […]
Show full quote

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

Just like with my hatred of BGA, my distrust of modern hardware from a security standpoint is probably too extreme. But no Intel Management Engine sure feels like a plus.
Anyway, my plan (should I follow through) would be to install NetBSD, use software RAID, transfer files mainly over USB stick, or direct connect ethernet, and to power the system on roughly once a week or so for synchronizing.

My other real option besides this socket 7 motherboard is a Core 2 Duo Dell Optiplex with *barf* BGA, lots of capacitors, and an Intel ME. But I suppose it is the more sane option.

opencomputedesign wrote on 2022-09-11, 05:58:

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" :P […]
Show full quote

DosFreak wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:42:

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" 😜

Things to consider: Security OS support RAM amount for OS and usage Amount of RAM motherboard can cache Processor speed Motherbo […]
Show full quote

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

Just like with my hatred of BGA, my distrust of modern hardware from a security standpoint is probably too extreme. But no Intel Management Engine sure feels like a plus.
Anyway, my plan (should I follow through) would be to install NetBSD, use software RAID, transfer files mainly over USB stick, or direct connect ethernet, and to power the system on roughly once a week or so for synchronizing.

My other real option besides this socket 7 motherboard is a Core 2 Duo Dell Optiplex with *barf* BGA, lots of capacitors, and an Intel ME. But I suppose it is the more sane option.

It does not have to be an x86 machine.

A Raspberry Pi 4 or several could do the job. They have no Management Engine, are reliable, cheap (current supply issues aside) and reasinably fast. They are also essily replaceable in case of failure.

If you want SATA or SAS, you can get the compute module version and a carrier board with PCIE . See https://pipci.jeffgeerling.com/#sata-cards-and-storage for tested PCIE HBAs

Or you can use another single board computer that already has SATA .

While there is a NetBSD port for the Pi, not sure how good hardware support on it is. My previous suggestions were more Linux oriented.

opencomputedesign wrote on 2022-09-11, 05:58:

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" :P […]
Show full quote

DosFreak wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:42:

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" 😜

Things to consider: Security OS support RAM amount for OS and usage Amount of RAM motherboard can cache Processor speed Motherbo […]
Show full quote

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

Just like with my hatred of BGA, my distrust of modern hardware from a security standpoint is probably too extreme. But no Intel Management Engine sure feels like a plus.
Anyway, my plan (should I follow through) would be to install NetBSD, use software RAID, transfer files mainly over USB stick, or direct connect ethernet, and to power the system on roughly once a week or so for synchronizing.

My other real option besides this socket 7 motherboard is a Core 2 Duo Dell Optiplex with *barf* BGA, lots of capacitors, and an Intel ME. But I suppose it is the more sane option.

Core2 doesnt have IME as part of the CPU, for core2 just look for motherboards that dont have IME listed as part of the chipset as IME is part of the Northbridge on Core2 so by checking the motherboard you could use Core2 and avoid IME.

This likely means that any Intel chipset is out, but there are other alternatives so it might be worth looking into them, perhaps the nForce chipset is free from it.

https://freundschafter.com/research/system-al … ure-technology/

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-09-11, 06:30:

Core2 doesnt have IME as part of the CPU, for core2 just look for motherboards that dont have IME listed as part of the chipset […]
Show full quote

opencomputedesign wrote on 2022-09-11, 05:58:

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" :P […]
Show full quote

DosFreak wrote on 2022-09-11, 03:42:

The topic states "data hoarding" but the post states low volume and documents and photos....

Any reasonable person who saw my documents and photos would consider it "hoarding" 😜

Things to consider: Security OS support RAM amount for OS and usage Amount of RAM motherboard can cache Processor speed Motherbo […]
Show full quote

Things to consider:
Security
OS support
RAM amount for OS and usage
Amount of RAM motherboard can cache
Processor speed
Motherboard reliability
Hardware vs software raid
RAID level
When hardware raid dies do you have another card?
USB vs ethernet speed.
HD IDE vs SATA vs SCSI
HD size
HD age
Protocol used to access files on system: SMB1 vs NFS vs SFTP vs FTP, etc.
Offsite backups
Syncing documents to multiple computers
How often will machine be accessed, powered on/off?
Power usage

Just like with my hatred of BGA, my distrust of modern hardware from a security standpoint is probably too extreme. But no Intel Management Engine sure feels like a plus.
Anyway, my plan (should I follow through) would be to install NetBSD, use software RAID, transfer files mainly over USB stick, or direct connect ethernet, and to power the system on roughly once a week or so for synchronizing.

My other real option besides this socket 7 motherboard is a Core 2 Duo Dell Optiplex with *barf* BGA, lots of capacitors, and an Intel ME. But I suppose it is the more sane option.

Core2 doesnt have IME as part of the CPU, for core2 just look for motherboards that dont have IME listed as part of the chipset as IME is part of the Northbridge on Core2 so by checking the motherboard you could use Core2 and avoid IME.

This likely means that any Intel chipset is out, but there are other alternatives so it might be worth looking into them, perhaps the nForce chipset is free from it.

https://freundschafter.com/research/system-al … ure-technology/

I'm not really budgeted for a new computer.

Sometimes I'll see conversations go like "But X is provably false. - But I just _feel_ like X is true! - K, but these peer reviewed studies though..." It seems I'm on the "But I Feel" side this time. Realizing this, I probably ought to get over myself, and just use the Core 2 Duo I have; The IME probably isn't out to get me (though it was muttering something about some guy called "Dave" the other day). But the computer isn't going to be connected to the internet, anyway.

Well, thanks to everyone for talking sense into me.