I very recently solved stability issues with a system that's like yours but also different enough that the solution might not apply.

I'm using Windows 95, but you may be able to get a solid Windows 98-setup following what I did. Not sure if an older version of 4in1 is necessarily applicable for Windows XP.

Unfortunately stability issues can result from a huge variety of causes, so you may be headed towards a lot of painful trial-and-error.

Hi,
Try to decrease AGP speed from 4x to 2x in BIOS settings. Maybe it can be done in the driver settings.

leonardo wrote on 2022-09-13, 13:28:

I very recently solved stability issues with a system that's like yours but also different enough that the solution might not apply.

I'm using Windows 95, but you may be able to get a solid Windows 98-setup following what I did. Not sure if an older version of 4in1 is necessarily applicable for Windows XP.

Unfortunately stability issues can result from a huge variety of causes, so you may be headed towards a lot of painful trial-and-error.

Thanks! Having a look through your post now and will use it as inspiration for trouble shooting. Glad to know that you managed to get your issue fixed in the end, gives me hope!

Roman555 wrote on 2022-09-13, 13:41:

Hi,
Try to decrease AGP speed from 4x to 2x in BIOS settings. Maybe it can be done in the driver settings.

I've experimented with it set to both 2x and 4x with fastwrite enabled and disabled but it didn't make a difference unfortunately. I've also tried setting the driving value manually to EA (was a suggestion on I think an old rage3d thread around r300 and via chipset issues). Thank you for the suggestion, though.

One obvious tip that I thought I should mention is that you really need to install VIA 4in1 and DirectX before you install any video card drivers.

You may already know this, but I thought I'd mention it just to be sure.

If you haven't already, be sure to remove, clean, and reinstall the northbridge cooler with fresh thermal paste; if it has a fan, lubricate the bearing.

Look for two OST brand (Taiwan Ostor) capacitors on the VRM high of this board that need replacing.

From this thread:

All the green-color sleeved capacitors are Nippon KZE series and they're fine... They hold up pretty well, even after 20 years (they no longer come in green though).

You also ought to replace the smaller 8mm capacitors.

leonardo wrote on 2022-09-13, 14:59:

One obvious tip that I thought I should mention is that you really need to install VIA 4in1 and DirectX before you install any video card drivers.

You may already know this, but I thought I'd mention it just to be sure.

Has been the usual method, but planning on a fresh install tonight so I'll make sure to keep it in mind. Thanks!

Repo Man11 wrote on 2022-09-13, 15:03:

If you haven't already, be sure to remove, clean, and reinstall the northbridge cooler with fresh thermal paste; if it has a fan, lubricate the bearing.

This was one of my first thoughts. It's just, I don't know how to remove this heatsink. There aren't any pins or clips holding it down. It's just a solid gold block. It's pretty similar to the one pictured in mockingbird's reply. Any suggestions on how to get under it?

mockingbird wrote on 2022-09-13, 16:33:

Look for two OST brand (Taiwan Ostor) capacitors on the VRM high of this board that need replacing. […]
Show full quote

Look for two OST brand (Taiwan Ostor) capacitors on the VRM high of this board that need replacing.

From this thread:

tbird3.jpg

tbird4.jpg

All the green-color sleeved capacitors are Nippon KZE series and they're fine... They hold up pretty well, even after 20 years (they no longer come in green though).

You also ought to replace the smaller 8mm capacitors.

I couldn't find any OST brand caps on the board. Most of the caps are kze series, and from what I could see the rest are TMY (not exactly sure who makes these). I've attached a picture of one of the other caps. Any info on these?

For reference, it looks like my board is a limited Japanese edition (there's a big sticker that says so on the board).

If your northbridge heat sink looks like the one in Mockingbird's photo, then it's held on with thermal tape. I really hate those, especially if they have no pin holes where you can mount a different one that's held in place by plastic pins instead. The only safe method I've found for removing both those, and ones where the thermal paste has become like glue, is to put it in the freezer - the different rates of thermal contraction helps break the bond, and they will generally pop off with some gentle prying, best done with a plastic tool of some sort. If there are no pin holes, then you have to clean and reattach it with thermal tape. My cheapo PCChips SiS 645 P4 board has a northbridge heat sink attached this way, but since that board has been stable and remarkably trouble free since I replaced the caps, I've left it alone; but Via Socket A chipsets really seem to need good cooling.

Many years ago I set some friends up with a Shuttle AK-32 (KT266) in a pretty poorly cooled case , and in the heat during a hot summer the chip cooler began sliding off the northbridge and the computer began locking up. They were a long way from me, and not knowing exactly what was the cause, all I could suggest over the phone was that they take the side cover off the case, which "solved" the issue. I later replaced it with one held in place by pins. I also made sure it was flat with a file, and used AS3.

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 00:17:

I couldn't find any OST brand caps on the board. Most of the caps are kze series, and from what I could see the rest are TMY (not exactly sure who makes these). I've attached a picture of one of the other caps. Any info on these?

For reference, it looks like my board is a limited Japanese edition (there's a big sticker that says so on the board).

What about Lelon or Ltec capacitors? Those also need replacing. Are you using a known good PSU? I see you mention enermax 430W... Those need to be re-capped. They might work ok with low-power systems, but once you start cranking out the amps with a high-end video card, capacitor aging in those things really starts to manifest. I believe Enermax used "CEC" brand caps for that vintage model.

Hey ,
What video driver version did you installed ?

ciornyi wrote on 2022-09-14, 05:12:

Hey ,
What video driver version did you installed ?

I tried multiple - latest drivers, 7.11, 4.3, and a handful of different omega drivers.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-09-14, 04:00:

What about Lelon or Ltec capacitors? Those also need replacing. Are you using a known good PSU? I see you mention enermax 430W... Those need to be re-capped. They might work ok with low-power systems, but once you start cranking out the amps with a high-end video card, capacitor aging in those things really starts to manifest. I believe Enermax used "CEC" brand caps for that vintage model.

You were right. The capacitors in the PSU are real bad. I'll have to buy at least a soldering iron (currently living abroad, so don't have any of my tools with me). I'm thinking about picking up a Hakko fx-600 to work on it. I have the skills to replace them but have never specifically worked on a PSU before, so if you have any cautions or advice that would be much appreciated.

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 09:29:

You were right. The capacitors in the PSU are real bad. I'll have to buy at least a soldering iron (currently living abroad, so don't have any of my tools with me). I'm thinking about picking up a Hakko fx-600 to work on it. I have the skills to replace them but have never specifically worked on a PSU before, so if you have any cautions or advice that would be much appreciated.

My advice is to purchase something modern (and use a 24-pin to 20-pin ATX adapter if the ATX connector isn't dividable). It was very rare for manufacturers of that time to integrate a proper stand-by circuit, and when that's absent, the 5VSB is on all the time at full power, unless the switch (if it has one) is turned off in the back or the cable (or power for that matter) is disconnected.

If you do really want to re-cap it -- post the values and sizes of all the caps (especially the small ones), and I can see what good equivalent stock is available for you. Which electronics distributors ship to your current living area?

mockingbird wrote on 2022-09-14, 12:34:

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 09:29:

You were right. The capacitors in the PSU are real bad. I'll have to buy at least a soldering iron (currently living abroad, so don't have any of my tools with me). I'm thinking about picking up a Hakko fx-600 to work on it. I have the skills to replace them but have never specifically worked on a PSU before, so if you have any cautions or advice that would be much appreciated.

My advice is to purchase something modern (and use a 24-pin to 20-pin ATX adapter if the ATX connector isn't dividable). It was very rare for manufacturers of that time to integrate a proper stand-by circuit, and when that's absent, the 5VSB is on all the time at full power, unless the switch (if it has one) is turned off in the back or the cable (or power for that matter) is disconnected.

If you do really want to re-cap it -- post the values and sizes of all the caps (especially the small ones), and I can see what good equivalent stock is available for you. Which electronics distributors ship to your current living area?

A modern PSU is always an option. Do you have any suggestions?

I'm in Japan for reference. If I can't get anything reasonable then I'll probably have to recap it (prices here can be a bit high sometimes, and sometimes there just isn't a lot of choice). A quick google search for capacitor vendors brought me to websites like this: https://www.marutsu.co.jp/GoodsListNavi.jsp?path=160015
I haven't looked for parts in Japan before, so there may be better vendors.

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 14:03:

A modern PSU is always an option. Do you have any suggestions?

Yes, the Antec NE550C V2 in particular (All Japanese capacitors, older design without DC to DC conversion. 80 watts total on the 5V rail -- that might not be enough).

Don't buy a PSU with Taiwanese capacitors (Cheapo Teapo). They'll bloat or dry up after a couple of years if you're lucky.

I'm in Japan for reference. If I can't get anything reasonable then I'll probably have to recap it (prices here can be a bit high sometimes, and sometimes there just isn't a lot of choice). A quick google search for capacitor vendors brought me to websites like this: https://www.marutsu.co.jp/GoodsListNavi.jsp?path=160015
I haven't looked for parts in Japan before, so there may be better vendors.

I think Digikey has a large presence there...

If you like to live dangerously, you can order from LCSC... You're guaranteed to receive counterfeit capacitors though.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-09-14, 15:53:

Yes, the Antec NE550C V2 in particular (All Japanese capacitors, older design without DC to DC conversion. 80 watts total on th […]
Show full quote

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 14:03:

A modern PSU is always an option. Do you have any suggestions?

Yes, the Antec NE550C V2 in particular (All Japanese capacitors, older design without DC to DC conversion. 80 watts total on the 5V rail -- that might not be enough).

301636_m.jpg

Don't buy a PSU with Taiwanese capacitors (Cheapo Teapo). They'll bloat or dry up after a couple of years if you're lucky.

I'm in Japan for reference. If I can't get anything reasonable then I'll probably have to recap it (prices here can be a bit high sometimes, and sometimes there just isn't a lot of choice). A quick google search for capacitor vendors brought me to websites like this: https://www.marutsu.co.jp/GoodsListNavi.jsp?path=160015
I haven't looked for parts in Japan before, so there may be better vendors.

I think Digikey has a large presence there...

If you like to live dangerously, you can order from LCSC... You're guaranteed to receive counterfeit capacitors though.

Thanks. That PSU looks great, but I don't think the 5v rail will be enough for a socket A system. I had a look at a whole bunch and couldn't really find anything that would be able to provide enough power. Looks like I'll probably have to recap the PSU then!

I'll get around to getting the details about the caps over the next couple of days. Would it be best to recap the entire board? Also, should I also take a note of the dimensions of the capacitors?

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-14, 16:07:

Thanks. That PSU looks great, but I don't think the 5v rail will be enough for a socket A system. I had a look at a whole bunch and couldn't really find anything that would be able to provide enough power. Looks like I'll probably have to recap the PSU then!

I'll get around to getting the details about the caps over the next couple of days. Would it be best to recap the entire board? Also, should I also take a note of the dimensions of the capacitors?

Indeed, I concur.

Yes, all the electrolytic capacitors. Yes, note the dimensions, voltage, and capacitance.

Made a rough map of the board and also took a photo for reference.

The dimensions may be off by a couple of mm here or there. Hard to accurately measure as the soldering iron hasn't arrived yet but I did my best.

Filter capacitors are 2x 200v 1000µF 85c, 50mm x 20mm diameter. Do you think that the filter capacitors should also be replaced?

I did a quick search for the other capacitors, trying to find similar ones. Marutsu seems to have some sort of relation with digikey. Rs-online has a good selection (expectedly), but unfortunately even here in Japan 1 or 2 piece orders aren't possible.
The following are 105°C rated capacitors and search results for potential replacements:
50v 2.2µF 12mm x 5mm diameter
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/1557685/
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/1541818/

50v 4.7µF 12mm x 5mm diameter
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/1557691/
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/1541823/

10v 4700µF 34mm x 12mm diameter
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/5261222
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/GoodsDetail.jsp?sal … e=2266&shopNo=3 (this one is much shorter, diameter is about the same)

16v 3300µF 34mm x 12mm diameter
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/0374847
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7567761

10v 2200µF 20mm x 9 or 10mm diameter
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/2272/
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7497142

10v 1000µF 20mm x 7mm diameter
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7621648

16v 470µF 13mm x 7mm diameter
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/GoodsDetail.jsp?sal … e=2280&shopNo=3 (dimensions slightly different)
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/1468487 (dimensions slightly different)

16v 100µF 12mm x 6mm diameter
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/1541777/
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/pc/i/2282/
https://jp.rs-online.com/web/p/aluminium-capacitors/7152549

What kind of impact will different size capacitors have (apart from the potential difficulty in installing them)?
What are your thoughts on the above capacitors?

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-16, 17:11:

Filter capacitors are 2x 200v 1000µF 85c, 50mm x 20mm diameter. Do you think that the filter capacitors should also be replaced?

Yessir. "JenPo" brand doesn't inspire confidence... Otherwise, the consensus is that they can be kept... Lately, I've come to disagree with this more and more, as I find even mid-tier primary capacitors in PSUs that do not perform adequately. The reason why people say primary capacitors don't need changing is because primary capacitors don't do high frequency filtering and thus they're not stressed... But this does not account for other factors such as breakdown of electrolyte or lesser overall quality.

Marutsu seems to have some sort of relation with digikey. Rs-online has a good selection (expectedly), but unfortunately even here in Japan 1 or 2 piece orders aren't possible.

You can buy straight from Digikey. They have a Japanese site, you know: http://www.digikey.jp

What kind of impact will different size capacitors have (apart from the potential difficulty in installing them)?
What are your thoughts on the above capacitors?

Generally not a good idea width-wise, but height doesn't matter as long as it fits... With the width, you risk shorting the capacitor body to components if they are touching. Capacitor sleeving is not meant to act as an insulative material and it shouldn't be treated as such. When you've no choice, it's best to use heatshrink on it.

I see you have quite the grab-bag there... Rubycon PX (not adequate for this application), Nichicon BT (also not adequate here), Rubycon YXF (good), Panasonic FR/FM (good). Make certain you've not left out any of the small 5mm capacitors.

I can check Digikey for you, but not just at this very moment. Perhaps tomorrow night.

Good job overall, I like the capacitor map, always a good idea.

mockingbird wrote on 2022-09-16, 20:38:

Yessir. "JenPo" brand doesn't inspire confidence... Otherwise, the consensus is that they can be kept... Lately, I've come to […]
Show full quote

sardinesandwich wrote on 2022-09-16, 17:11:

Filter capacitors are 2x 200v 1000µF 85c, 50mm x 20mm diameter. Do you think that the filter capacitors should also be replaced?

Yessir. "JenPo" brand doesn't inspire confidence... Otherwise, the consensus is that they can be kept... Lately, I've come to disagree with this more and more, as I find even mid-tier primary capacitors in PSUs that do not perform adequately. The reason why people say primary capacitors don't need changing is because primary capacitors don't do high frequency filtering and thus they're not stressed... But this does not account for other factors such as breakdown of electrolyte or lesser overall quality.

Marutsu seems to have some sort of relation with digikey. Rs-online has a good selection (expectedly), but unfortunately even here in Japan 1 or 2 piece orders aren't possible.

You can buy straight from Digikey. They have a Japanese site, you know: http://www.digikey.jp

What kind of impact will different size capacitors have (apart from the potential difficulty in installing them)?
What are your thoughts on the above capacitors?

Generally not a good idea width-wise, but height doesn't matter as long as it fits... With the width, you risk shorting the capacitor body to components if they are touching. Capacitor sleeving is not meant to act as an insulative material and it shouldn't be treated as such. When you've no choice, it's best to use heatshrink on it.

I see you have quite the grab-bag there... Rubycon PX (not adequate for this application), Nichicon BT (also not adequate here), Rubycon YXF (good), Panasonic FR/FM (good). Make certain you've not left out any of the small 5mm capacitors.

I can check Digikey for you, but not just at this very moment. Perhaps tomorrow night.

Good job overall, I like the capacitor map, always a good idea.

Iron arrived and I managed to desolder most of the capacitors. I couldn't get 3 of the 50v capacitors because they're glued snug to the board (6, 7 and 8 on the capacitor map). How should I go about removing them?

I did find an additional 50v capacitor. Details and remeasured dimensions below:

Filter capacitors:
200v 1000µF 85°c 50mm x 20.5mm diameter

105°C capacitors:
50v 2.2µF 10.5mm x 4.5mm diameter
50v 4.7µF 10.5mm x 4.5mm diameter (probably, haven't removed this one yet)
50v 22µF 10.5mm x 4.5mm diameter (this was hidden under some wires)
10v 4700µF 32mm x 12mm diameter
10v 2200µF 23mm x 9mm diameter
16v 3300µF 32mm x 12mm diameter
10v 1000µF 18mm x 7.5mm diameter
16v 470µF 13mm x 8mm diameter
16v 100µF 10.5mm x 6mm diameter

I had a little bit of trouble with this part of the board. It's covered in flux, and the solder itself is pretty thick. Should I bump up the heat and give the areas around where the capacitors were in a bit of a clean and fresh solder? To be honest, I've never encountered something like this on a board before. (Just uploaded the picture, and I'm not sure why the quality is so poor. Can reupload if you'd like a better picture).