AlexZ wrote on 2022-10-02, 12:33:

PIII on 440BX with ISA sound card covers the whole DOS and Windows 98 era. Few speed sensitive DOS games where disabling cache doesn't help can be run on DosBox-X or 86Box on modern hardware. 86/286/386/486 builds are for enthusiasts and not a necessity for most people.

The best DOS games come from 1995-1997. If you want a DOS build, focus primarily on that time period.

I kind of agree with this. If you're not interested in unicorn gaming on "period correct" hardware, this covers the vast majority of what you actually want to play. It's worth looking up the edge cases to see if you even care about those games. If you do, then you can decide if a work-around makes sense or an entire separate system to play those few things.

Keep what you like though, whether it makes sense or not. For example in exactly nobody elses list of favorite gaming systems is an Armada 1590DMT and the Centrino class Celeron Acer Travelstar I've got... The screen is a tad blurry on the Armada, and the 150MMX is in the middle of nowhere for preferred CPU, but somehow, the tone of the speakers, angle of keyboard and feel of buttons just lets me get really into a game on it. Same with the Acer, it's specs are potato, but keyboard feel, speaker positioning and tone, and the screen is a lot nicer but still lower end for it's time, but the whole feel of the thing lets it meld into the background for me. Games are more immersive on those somehow. I'm not daft enough to force them to try to run crysis or the quivalent for their era though.

PTherapist wrote on 2022-10-02, 10:54:

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tric […]
Show full quote

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tricks and patches etc etc.

There's a lot of crossover with DOS era gaming, ie. you could find games released in the early 1990s that could still run on an original IBM PC from the 80s. The latter DOS period crosses over with the early Windows 3D gaming period, so for that alone you might desire 2 separate builds to cover everything with a bit more period correctness.

For myself, I made use of what I had and did it like this for the least amount of builds:

XT/8088 4.77MHz + 640KB RAM - Covering CGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. Can of course also manage Monochrome games.

<- could have added either a Turbo XT and/or a 286 build inbetween here for a better performing CGA/EGA crossover build.

386SX 16MHz - Covering EGA gaming and early VGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. A 386DX build would be better than SX, but I don't currently have one.

486 DX2 66MHz - Covering VGA and some SVGA, late 80s & early 90s DOS gaming. Could also respectably cover Windows 3.1 era games. Can also run some late 1990s DOS games too, with varying performance levels.

<- then you could fit a Pentium/Pentium MMX Win95 build in here, but I decided to skip it to save space as the other builds covered my particular gaming needs. There's also the option of a 486 DX4 100MHz + VLB graphics build too, but there'd be a lot of crossover with games you could quite as easily play on either the DX2 or the Pentium.

AMD K6/2 500MHz + Voodoo 3 Graphics Card - Covers mid-late 1990s DOS gaming as well as early Windows 3D gaming with Windows 98SE. Though I primarily use this for Windows gaming + Glide supported games. A Slot 1 Pentium II build would also work for this era.

My next build after that was a Windows 2000 build, as I pretty much consider 1997-1998 the absolute cut off point for DOS gaming.

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover those games that support Tandy graphics and sound. Especially for the sound.

I also find myself debating the line between 286/386 and 386/486 eras. At this point, I'll probably end up with one each of 286, 386 and 486 and just stop worrying about it. I've already got my 286 build done, so now onto 386 and 486 machines. 😁

My planned 'ultimate' high end DOS build does mirror your high end though: AMD K6/2 500 MHz and Voodoo 3.

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-02, 20:24:

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover t […]
Show full quote

PTherapist wrote on 2022-10-02, 10:54:

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tric […]
Show full quote

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tricks and patches etc etc.

There's a lot of crossover with DOS era gaming, ie. you could find games released in the early 1990s that could still run on an original IBM PC from the 80s. The latter DOS period crosses over with the early Windows 3D gaming period, so for that alone you might desire 2 separate builds to cover everything with a bit more period correctness.

For myself, I made use of what I had and did it like this for the least amount of builds:

XT/8088 4.77MHz + 640KB RAM - Covering CGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. Can of course also manage Monochrome games.

<- could have added either a Turbo XT and/or a 286 build inbetween here for a better performing CGA/EGA crossover build.

386SX 16MHz - Covering EGA gaming and early VGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. A 386DX build would be better than SX, but I don't currently have one.

486 DX2 66MHz - Covering VGA and some SVGA, late 80s & early 90s DOS gaming. Could also respectably cover Windows 3.1 era games. Can also run some late 1990s DOS games too, with varying performance levels.

<- then you could fit a Pentium/Pentium MMX Win95 build in here, but I decided to skip it to save space as the other builds covered my particular gaming needs. There's also the option of a 486 DX4 100MHz + VLB graphics build too, but there'd be a lot of crossover with games you could quite as easily play on either the DX2 or the Pentium.

AMD K6/2 500MHz + Voodoo 3 Graphics Card - Covers mid-late 1990s DOS gaming as well as early Windows 3D gaming with Windows 98SE. Though I primarily use this for Windows gaming + Glide supported games. A Slot 1 Pentium II build would also work for this era.

My next build after that was a Windows 2000 build, as I pretty much consider 1997-1998 the absolute cut off point for DOS gaming.

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover those games that support Tandy graphics and sound. Especially for the sound.

I also find myself debating the line between 286/386 and 386/486 eras. At this point, I'll probably end up with one each of 286, 386 and 486 and just stop worrying about it. I've already got my 286 build done, so now onto 386 and 486 machines. 😁

My planned 'ultimate' high end DOS build does mirror your high end though: AMD K6/2 500 MHz and Voodoo 3.

https://www.serdashop.com/TNDLPT
I've used one of these to get around some of the tandy compatible issue , but you still miss out on tandy graphics I guess , unless someone reverse engineers and makes a tandy graphics card.

AppleSauce wrote on 2022-10-03, 02:34:

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-02, 20:24:

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover t […]
Show full quote

PTherapist wrote on 2022-10-02, 10:54:

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tric […]
Show full quote

You could probably scrape by with 2 or 3 builds maximum, if you accept various compatibility problems and utilise slow down tricks and patches etc etc.

There's a lot of crossover with DOS era gaming, ie. you could find games released in the early 1990s that could still run on an original IBM PC from the 80s. The latter DOS period crosses over with the early Windows 3D gaming period, so for that alone you might desire 2 separate builds to cover everything with a bit more period correctness.

For myself, I made use of what I had and did it like this for the least amount of builds:

XT/8088 4.77MHz + 640KB RAM - Covering CGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. Can of course also manage Monochrome games.

<- could have added either a Turbo XT and/or a 286 build inbetween here for a better performing CGA/EGA crossover build.

386SX 16MHz - Covering EGA gaming and early VGA gaming from the 80s & early 90s. A 386DX build would be better than SX, but I don't currently have one.

486 DX2 66MHz - Covering VGA and some SVGA, late 80s & early 90s DOS gaming. Could also respectably cover Windows 3.1 era games. Can also run some late 1990s DOS games too, with varying performance levels.

<- then you could fit a Pentium/Pentium MMX Win95 build in here, but I decided to skip it to save space as the other builds covered my particular gaming needs. There's also the option of a 486 DX4 100MHz + VLB graphics build too, but there'd be a lot of crossover with games you could quite as easily play on either the DX2 or the Pentium.

AMD K6/2 500MHz + Voodoo 3 Graphics Card - Covers mid-late 1990s DOS gaming as well as early Windows 3D gaming with Windows 98SE. Though I primarily use this for Windows gaming + Glide supported games. A Slot 1 Pentium II build would also work for this era.

My next build after that was a Windows 2000 build, as I pretty much consider 1997-1998 the absolute cut off point for DOS gaming.

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover those games that support Tandy graphics and sound. Especially for the sound.

I also find myself debating the line between 286/386 and 386/486 eras. At this point, I'll probably end up with one each of 286, 386 and 486 and just stop worrying about it. I've already got my 286 build done, so now onto 386 and 486 machines. 😁

My planned 'ultimate' high end DOS build does mirror your high end though: AMD K6/2 500 MHz and Voodoo 3.

https://www.serdashop.com/TNDLPT
I've used one of these to get around some of the tandy compatible issue , but you still miss out on tandy graphics I guess , unless someone reverse engineers and makes a tandy graphics card.

On a 386/486 ans up, a Covox plug and TEMU can be used, too! 😁
TEMU is an early software emulation of the Tandy 3-Voice chip and the Disney Sound Source (DSS). 💙

Sure, it has its shortcoming. Like the missing/inaccurate noise channel.
But it's nice enough for casually playing Larry or Space Quest (sierra /t).

Just give it a try, please! 😋

I made a sample recording a long time ago..
Re: Covox speech thingy!!!

Alternatively, there's Tand-Em.
A fine Tandy 1000 emulator, for DOS. Runs on 386/486 PCs. 😎👍

http://www.oldskool.org/pc/tand-em

But then we're close to DOSBox territory already (-> full PC emulation).
Which certain people with real hardware try to avoid, understandably.
- Unless they're fascinated by DOS-based emulators and/or have real VGA CRT monitor working on a vintage PC. 🙂👍

That's because, at some point, it feels not much different from using an emulator on a modern PC.

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-02, 01:03:

how many different builds do you think are needed to adequately cover the DOS era?

At least one of each generation of CPU, if you want the genuine experience for the broadest range of game. Possibly only a couple if you want a system that can be throttled and are only interested in the gaming experience.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-10-03, 04:42:

On a 386/486 ans up, a Covox plug and TEMU can be used, too! 😁 TEMU is an early software emulation of the Tandy 3-Voice chip an […]
Show full quote

AppleSauce wrote on 2022-10-03, 02:34:

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-02, 20:24:

This is along the lines of where I'm headed with builds, though I'd insert a Tandy 1000 in between the XT and 286 era to cover those games that support Tandy graphics and sound. Especially for the sound.

I also find myself debating the line between 286/386 and 386/486 eras. At this point, I'll probably end up with one each of 286, 386 and 486 and just stop worrying about it. I've already got my 286 build done, so now onto 386 and 486 machines. 😁

My planned 'ultimate' high end DOS build does mirror your high end though: AMD K6/2 500 MHz and Voodoo 3.

https://www.serdashop.com/TNDLPT
I've used one of these to get around some of the tandy compatible issue , but you still miss out on tandy graphics I guess , unless someone reverse engineers and makes a tandy graphics card.

On a 386/486 ans up, a Covox plug and TEMU can be used, too! 😁
TEMU is an early software emulation of the Tandy 3-Voice chip and the Disney Sound Source (DSS). 💙

Sure, it has its shortcoming. Like the missing/inaccurate noise channel.
But it's nice enough for casually playing Larry or Space Quest (sierra /t).

Just give it a try, please! 😋

I made a sample recording a long time ago..
Re: Covox speech thingy!!!

Alternatively, there's Tand-Em.
A fine Tandy 1000 emulator, for DOS. Runs on 386/486 PCs. 😎👍

http://www.oldskool.org/pc/tand-em

But then we're close to DOSBox territory already (-> full PC emulation).
Which certain people with real hardware try to avoid, understandably.
- Unless they're fascinated by DOS-based emulators and/or have real VGA CRT monitor working on a vintage PC. 🙂👍

That's because, at some point, it feels not much different from using an emulator on a modern PC.

Ah wow that's pretty cool , ill have to check that stuff out at some point.

How many builds adequately covers the DOS-era of gaming?

Depending on who you ask, you will get any answer between 1 build and 17 builds.

debs3759 wrote on 2022-10-03, 04:47:

Shponglefan wrote on 2022-10-02, 01:03:

how many different builds do you think are needed to adequately cover the DOS era?

At least one of each generation of CPU, if you want the genuine experience for the broadest range of game. Possibly only a couple if you want a system that can be throttled and are only interested in the gaming experience.

Yeah, it's a question of what level of accuracy you're aiming for. Can be everything from running Dosbox on your modern daily driver, to at least one machine from each generation between the XT and PIII/Athlon eras. There's really no universal answer.

Personally I've landed on keeping a P233MMX and a 1.4GHz Tualeron machine ready for anytime use. The P233MMX can be tuned to approximate everything down to a slow 386 in fine grained steps, and the Tualeron handles the Build games with flying colors in high resolutions. Haven't found any need to cover the hole between those yet, everything from the PII and early PIII era I've tried so far works perfectly on the Tualeron.

Also got a somewhat redundant small form factor 486 I just couldn't resist when I found it, that can be brought down to just over a single Speedsys point, if I ever want to play around with really old software.

AppleSauce wrote on 2022-10-03, 02:34:

https://www.serdashop.com/TNDLPT
I've used one of these to get around some of the tandy compatible issue , but you still miss out on tandy graphics I guess , unless someone reverse engineers and makes a tandy graphics card.

I suppose I'm a stickler for running Tandy graphics & sound on an actual Tandy. 😉