VOGONS


First post, by retrofan01

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I'm trying to move a Win98SE installation from a SanDisk Extreme III 8GB CF card to a SanDisk Extreme 64GB UDMA7 CF card to boot on my Dell Dimension M233S but it's proving far more fiddly than I expected.

I tried Win32DiskImager and HDDRawCopy thinking that a clone of the 8GB card then a resize of the partition to 64GB would work but the boot process gets stuck around the part where it loads the mouse driver - at no stage do I see the Win98 logo screen. Leaving the partition on the 64GB card at 8GB after writing the image to it (i.e. no partition resize) also produces boot failures.

I then used this tutorial to prepare the 64GB card for Win98 (FDISK then format c: /s) but when I copy the files via Windows Explorer on my modern Win10 PC from my 8GB CF card -> NTFS-formatted SSD -> 64GB CF card, the files somehow end up corrupted and Win98 throws up CONFIG.SYS errors during boot.

I've reformatted the 64GB card and prepared it again so that it boots into Win98's COMMAND.COM but I'm not sure of the best way to proceed from here. I have one USB-CF reader on my modern PC and one IDE-CF reader on the Dell machine so connecting both CF cards to the same machine is currently out of the question and I'd rather not have to buy any additional hardware to do this if possible. Is there a way of copying the files over from the 8GB CF card to the 64GB card that won't corrupt them or is there a reliable way to do an image copy instead? Or is the 64GB CF card simply not compatible with the Dell?

Reply 1 of 18, by Cosmic

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You could try copying the files using the Windows built-in robocopy command. I've had good luck with it, it's kind of like an rsync for Windows and might work better than using Explorer.

robocopy /e X:\ C:\CFBackup\ 

<swap card>

robocopy /e C:\CFBackup\ X:\

Where X:\ is the CF card reader. The /e switch will copy all directories, even if they're empty. There are a bunch of other possibly helpful switches viewable with /?:

robocopy /?

If copying from FAT32 -> NTFS -> FAT32 is causing problems, one could use a FAT32 formatted flash drive as temporary storage. Alternatively one could image the source CF, mount the image in Windows, then robocopy from the mounted image to the destination CF card.

Reply 2 of 18, by drosse1meyer

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Symantec ghost floppy, local disk to disk option, it will even expand the partitions for you

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Reply 3 of 18, by douglar

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Does the computer have BIOS that works with devices > 8.4GB?

Sounds like the system might have the 8.4GB ECHS limit or that the storage is not configured to use LBA in the BIOS.

https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Storage# … age_Limitations

Reply 5 of 18, by retrofan01

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I tried using robocopy to transfer the files from 8GB CF card -> 16GB FAT32 USB stick -> 64GB CF card but Win98 either throws up a exception in msgsrv32 or blue screens during bootup. I then downloaded Ghost 11.5.1 and used that to clone the 8GB CF card into an image then wrote that to the 64GB card but Win98 seems to hang during boot on a turquoise screen with the mouse pointer. Bringing up Task Manager shows that msgsrv32 is not responding.

I then tried a clean install of Win98 onto the 64GB card and that seems to work fine (the OS sees the whole 64GB as well) so it looks like something's been altered or corrupted during the boot or copy process somehow.

Reply 8 of 18, by darry

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Motherboard is an OEM Intel TE430VX which supports LBA, but many older BIOSes had issues/bug with accessing larger sizes ( for example, 40GB )

You can use the utility in this thread to test your BIOS's abilities . Are there any utilities available to test BIOS disk access routines for reliable LBA28 functionality ?

Latest Dell BIOS is A10 . I don't see a changelog . https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-ca/drive … mension-xps-m-s

# Machine info
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/dell-d … nsion-xps-m___s

# Motherboard manual for original Intel version
https://www.fermimn.edu.it/inform/materiali/e … bd/28181703.pdf

Reply 9 of 18, by douglar

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retrofan01 wrote on 2022-12-15, 17:25:

No, doing it on my Win10 PC - there isn't enough room on the 8GB CF card to store the image if I use Ghost on the Dell Win98 machine and it only has the capacity to attach one CF card at a time.

Is it possible that the Windows 10 computer is mounting the drive with a different geometry than the old DELL ?

Reply 10 of 18, by retrofan01

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douglar wrote on 2022-12-15, 20:20:
retrofan01 wrote on 2022-12-15, 17:25:

No, doing it on my Win10 PC - there isn't enough room on the 8GB CF card to store the image if I use Ghost on the Dell Win98 machine and it only has the capacity to attach one CF card at a time.

Is it possible that the Windows 10 computer is mounting the drive with a different geometry than the old DELL ?

I'm not sure of the differences between the two or how that would affect things?

I updated the BIOS on the Dell from A07 to A10, used Ghost to clone the 8GB card to the 64GB card but Win98 threw up errors on boot again. Tried EXTBIOS and extended disk access support is supported on the drive (plus it boots fine with the full 64Gb when I do a clean install of Win98 on it). At this point, I'm thinking I might get a refund for the 64GB card and switch the IDE-CF adaptor out for an IDE-SD card or IDE-SATA one instead...

Reply 11 of 18, by Jo22

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douglar wrote on 2022-12-14, 18:45:

Does the computer have BIOS that works with devices > 8.4GB?

Sounds like the system might have the 8.4GB ECHS limit or that the storage is not configured to use LBA in the BIOS.

https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Storage# … age_Limitations

+1

Maybe the limit can be circumvented by using an USB cardreader *on* the Windows 98 PC itself.

For preparing the big CF card, I mean. Not for booting.

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Reply 12 of 18, by retrofan01

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Just tried making a Ghost image of the 8GB CF card on my Win10 PC then copying it to the 64GB CF card. Then, I booted off a floppy on the Dell Win98 machine, copied ghost.exe from the 64GB CF card to the RAM disk then used it to write the image onto the 64GB card (Ghost seems to be smart enough not to overwrite itself). It still crashes on normal bootup but seems OK in safe mode... like something in the registry or on the filesystem is being corrupted!?

Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-17, 17:47:

+1

Maybe the limit can be circumvented by using an USB cardreader *on* the Windows 98 PC itself.

For preparing the big CF card, I mean. Not for booting.

Will try my USB card reader on the machine...

Reply 13 of 18, by weedeewee

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Do you have dma enabled in win98 for the 8GB CF you are trying to copy ?

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Reply 14 of 18, by retrofan01

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-12-17, 17:47:

Maybe the limit can be circumvented by using an USB cardreader *on* the Windows 98 PC itself.

For preparing the big CF card, I mean. Not for booting.

I've plugged the 64GB CF card via my USB 3.0 card reader into the Dell Win98 machine. The CF card is detected as a drive and is accessible in Windows but when I set up a backup job in Ghost 2003 and restart the machine to boot into PC DOS in order to begin imaging, the 64GB CF card is no longer detected (i.e. it seems to be assigned drive letter F: then throws up Abort/Retry/Fail) even though the card reader was detected as a USB 1.1 device in Windows and I've set the USB 1.1 drivers to be loaded in Ghost's Advanced Settings prior to running the job.

weedeewee wrote on 2022-12-17, 19:21:

Do you have dma enabled in win98 for the 8GB CF you are trying to copy ?

Yes DMA is enabled on the 8GB CF card when I boot off it.

Reply 16 of 18, by douglar

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retrofan01 wrote on 2022-12-17, 16:49:

I'm not sure of the differences between the two or how that would affect things?

There are multi CHS arrangements you can use to reach about same storage size. So if one computer is configured to use a different number of cylinders than the other, some of your files will look like they went through a shreader. USB adapters almost always use LBA. You could have problems if the legacy system is not using LBA. But if you are using LBA addressing on both systems, it wont be a problem.

Reply 17 of 18, by darry

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Two suggestions

Option 1 :

a) Partition, format and make the new CF card bootable on the old PC using the same OS you have installed on the CF card.

b) Then use xcopy /e /h etc ( see https://www.computerhope.com/xcopyhlp.htm for complete reference) to copy all files and directories from the old CF card to new CF card using the old PC .

Option 2 :

a) Partition, format and make the new CF card bootable on the old PC using the same OS you have installed on the old CF card.

b) Copy all files and directories from the old CF card to the new CF card using a modern PC .

Reply 18 of 18, by retrofan01

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Disabling DMA looks to have fixed the issue -I've booted the Win98 Ghost image off the 64GB CF card multiple times without any problems and turning it back on brought back the crashing on startup. Thank you so much @douglar and everyone for your help and suggestions!