Sure, look up the vrm chip's datasheet. Though the bios might still block Coppermines from booting.

how can i identify whether an early slot1/s370 board works with coppermine
cpus?

I presume you mean without having to look up a manual?
For slot 1 it's like Oetker explained. For s370 an adapter (or other handywork) may be needed because of different pinouts.

Tetrium wrote on 2023-01-09, 07:04:

how can i identify whether an early slot1/s370 board works with coppermine
cpus?

I presume you mean without having to look up a manual?
For slot 1 it's like Oetker explained. For s370 an adapter (or other handywork) may be needed because of different pinouts.

i have looked up some manuals and i think they are helpless on this. since i was talking about early slot1/s370 boards, their manuals were printed before coppermine cpus being released, so they would never mention about them.
well, except few manuals did mention "support detecting voltage all the way to 1.3v for future cpus..." or sth like that.

noshutdown wrote on 2023-01-09, 07:32:

Tetrium wrote on 2023-01-09, 07:04:

how can i identify whether an early slot1/s370 board works with coppermine
cpus?

I presume you mean without having to look up a manual?
For slot 1 it's like Oetker explained. For s370 an adapter (or other handywork) may be needed because of different pinouts.

i have looked up some manuals and i think they are helpless on this. since i was talking about slot1/s370 boards, their manuals were printed before coppermine cpus being released, so they would never mention about them.
well, except few manuals did mention "support detecting voltage all the way to 1.3v for future cpus..." or sth like that.

Wait, you mean boards with Slot 1 AND s370? because if you mean Slot 1 OR s370 then it's probably most as most s370 boards were made specifically with Coppermine support in mind.
But you did also mention early boards, so fair enough.
Then it's like Oetker explained. Alternatively google and find if there's an updated BIOS available for that board which mentions Coppermine support (many such sites will not exist anymore today though, so that's a somewhat unreliable method).

Tetrium wrote on 2023-01-09, 07:44:

[...]

Wait, you mean boards with Slot 1 AND s370? because if you mean Slot 1 OR s370 then it's probably most as most s370 boards were made specifically with Coppermine support in mind.
But you did also mention early boards, so fair enough.

So370 FC-PGA boards were by definition made with Coppermine in mind, but So370 PPGA will not support Coppermine without modification regardless of voltage.

So for working 'out of the box' with Coppermine:

Slot 1:
- board VRM must support voltage CPU tries to select with VID0-3 pins (unsupported VID request leads to no CPU power!)
- BIOS must support the CPUID, or failing that, BIOS must not have insurmountable issues with unknown CPU (most retail BIOS are OK, OEMs, particularly Intel, less so)
'Hacks':
- use So370 Coppermine and slocket with VID pin override jumpers that let you select a supported voltage that CuMine can handle (i.e. 1.8V)

Bottom line: most Slot 1 boards can run a Coppermine with such a slocket if they support 1.8V. Basically anything with 100MHz FSB support will do that. So get yourself a slocket with jumpers and a 100MHz FSB board (i.e. i440BX) and you should be good.

S0370:
- socket mst be FC-PGA or FC-PGA2.
- board VRM must support voltage CPU tries to select with VID0-3 pins.
- BIOS must support the CPUID, or failing that, BIOS must not have insurmountable issues with unknown CPU (most retail BIOS are OK, OEMs, particularly Intel, less so)
'Hacks':
- mod PPGA->FC-PGA socket and if needed mod VID pins to select 1.8V
- use a (rare) PPGA->FC-PGA adapter socket to avoid having to hard mod stuff yourself

Bottom line: all FC-PGA or higher sockets will support Coppermine, the old PPGA boards need rare stuff or a lot of work - but as Mendocino required 1.8V, as long as BIOS doesn't mess it up, it can be done on any such board.

dionb wrote on 2023-01-09, 10:18:

So370 FC-PGA boards were by definition made with Coppermine in mind, but So370 PPGA will not support Coppermine without modifica […]
Show full quote

Tetrium wrote on 2023-01-09, 07:44:

[...]

Wait, you mean boards with Slot 1 AND s370? because if you mean Slot 1 OR s370 then it's probably most as most s370 boards were made specifically with Coppermine support in mind.
But you did also mention early boards, so fair enough.

So370 FC-PGA boards were by definition made with Coppermine in mind, but So370 PPGA will not support Coppermine without modification regardless of voltage.

So for working 'out of the box' with Coppermine:

Slot 1:
- board VRM must support voltage CPU tries to select with VID0-3 pins (unsupported VID request leads to no CPU power!)
- BIOS must support the CPUID, or failing that, BIOS must not have insurmountable issues with unknown CPU (most retail BIOS are OK, OEMs, particularly Intel, less so)
'Hacks':
- use So370 Coppermine and slocket with VID pin override jumpers that let you select a supported voltage that CuMine can handle (i.e. 1.8V)

Bottom line: most Slot 1 boards can run a Coppermine with such a slocket if they support 1.8V. Basically anything with 100MHz FSB support will do that. So get yourself a slocket with jumpers and a 100MHz FSB board (i.e. i440BX) and you should be good.

S0370:
- socket mst be FC-PGA or FC-PGA2.
- board VRM must support voltage CPU tries to select with VID0-3 pins.
- BIOS must support the CPUID, or failing that, BIOS must not have insurmountable issues with unknown CPU (most retail BIOS are OK, OEMs, particularly Intel, less so)
'Hacks':
- mod PPGA->FC-PGA socket and if needed mod VID pins to select 1.8V
- use a (rare) PPGA->FC-PGA adapter socket to avoid having to hard mod stuff yourself

Bottom line: all FC-PGA or higher sockets will support Coppermine, the old PPGA boards need rare stuff or a lot of work - but as Mendocino required 1.8V, as long as BIOS doesn't mess it up, it can be done on any such board.

Excellent explanation, that about sums it up I guess 🙂

One more thing: current delivery.

What BIOS should I use with my MSI MS-6117 triggered me. Some of the oldest Slot 1 boards with VRM 8.1, desgined before Deschutes P2, aren't just limited to 1.8V min, but they also are very limited in how much current they can supply. At 2.0V they can do max 11.3A, at 1.8V max 10.2A. That means that anything beyond a Celeron 366 Mendocino is out of spec, and if you can get Coppermine to run at all, you need to look for relatively high-voltage (1.7 or 1.75V) parts and even then 667MHz is the highest it can handle once overvolted to 1.8V (as above).

This should only be an issue on 66MHz FSB boards (i440LX and i440EX). If the specs list VRM 8.1, it's limited in this way, whereas VRM 8.2 allows twice the current at 2.0V and 1.8V. If specs don't tell you about the VRM, check the manual. If P2-300 Klamath is highest listed CPU, you could well have one of these old VRMs. If the manual lists P2-333 (Deschutes) and any variety of Celeron, you're good.

i found a board with fairychild rc5053ma chip, is it the main vrm component? and would it support coppermine?

noshutdown wrote on 2023-02-24, 10:58:

i found a board with fairychild rc5053ma chip, is it the main vrm component? and would it support coppermine?

If you spell the vendor correctly (that child is fair, not a fairy 😉 ) you find the datasheet:
http://electronix.org.ru/datasheet/FairChild/RC5053.PDF

5-Bit Digitally Programmable 1.8V to 3.5V Fixed Output Voltage • Provides All Features Required by the Intel Pentium II Processo […]
Show full quote

5-Bit Digitally Programmable 1.8V to 3.5V Fixed Output
Voltage
• Provides All Features Required by the Intel Pentium II
Processor VRM 8.2 DC/DC Converter Specification

So it can do min 1.8V. If you can select 1.8V on your motherboard or slocket (or can get creative with tape on the slot 1 connector), it can run a Coppermine.

dionb wrote on 2023-02-24, 12:01:

If you spell the vendor correctly (that child if fair, not a fairy ;) ) you find the datasheet: http://electronix.org.ru/datashe […]
Show full quote

If you spell the vendor correctly (that child if fair, not a fairy 😉 ) you find the datasheet:
http://electronix.org.ru/datasheet/FairChild/RC5053.PDF

5-Bit Digitally Programmable 1.8V to 3.5V Fixed Output Voltage • Provides All Features Required by the Intel Pentium II Processo […]
Show full quote

5-Bit Digitally Programmable 1.8V to 3.5V Fixed Output
Voltage
• Provides All Features Required by the Intel Pentium II
Processor VRM 8.2 DC/DC Converter Specification

So it can do min 1.8V. If you can select 1.8V on your motherboard or slocket (or can get creative with tape on the slot 1 connector), it can run a Coppermine.

things are getting even more weird when i found another revision of the datasheet which says "1.3V to 3.5V Fixed Output". its rev1.0.4 while the one you found is rev1.0.1.
i check it up and found that both datasheets listed output voltage options from 3.5v down to 1.3v at page7~8, but options from 1.3v to 1.75v are marked "disabled" in rev1.0.1, although without any further explanations. i wonder why is the difference? and how should i trust them?