VOGONS


First post, by mig81

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Hi friends I'm new on this forum but I collect old computers from many years.
I'm recently working on my father's Commodore PC30-III fixing the Dallas realclock time adding a CR2032, replacing the damaged HD and video card EGA Wonder 800+ with a common VGA, added a sound card, cleaned both floppy 1,44mb and 1,2Mb, added a coprocessor 287-10, installed Dos 5.0, Windows 3 and many old games.
Everything works fine at 6 or 8 MHz I can play games for hours but if I switch at 12MHz from the Phoenix bios it boots, checks the ram Ok, check the floppyes drives and freezes with the red led ofthe TEAC 1,2Mb switched on!

Unmounted everything again and tried to run at 12MHz without coprocessor(manual says a coprocessor 287-10mhz it's ok with a processor at 12Mhz), HD, audiocard, floppyes, but it crashes afetr ram check, before check the COM PORT. I disabilited even the COM PORT and BUS Mouse port but it crashes.

Somebody could help me to try to understand wath could be the problem?
Could be the processor? It's a Siemens 80286-12-N.
...maybe the mod of the Dallas?

Thanks
Michele from Italy

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Reply 1 of 16, by weedeewee

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If I recall correctly you could change the system speed with the keyboard ctrl-alt-num+/- keys.
You could try booting the system at low speed, then running a system diagnostics/benchmark switch to high speed.

I highly doubt it's the dallas mod. Hanging on floppy makes me wonder if it's the FDC or memory.

also, is that a typo on the motherboard photo description ?

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
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https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 2 of 16, by mig81

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Yes thanks I can try to change the speed by these key combinations, I read on the user manual it's possible. Tomorrow I'll try, hope to don't frezee like the last time because it wouldn't boot correctly after tried 12MHz till the day after ....don't know really why.

Reply 3 of 16, by weedeewee

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If the keyboard speed change don't work, it could be due to a keyboard driver being loaded in dos. if so, unload or remove the keyboard driver from being loaded and try again.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 4 of 16, by MMaximus

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Did you try updating the BIOS to the latest version? There seems to be BIOS images available for download on this website

Also, did you try to change the system speed using the ATSPEED command? I'll copy and paste notes from the PC40-III user manual (the PC30-III indeed has a PC40-III mainboard inside 😀

SETTING THE MICROPROCESSOR CLOCK SPEED The 80286 microprocessor in the PC40-III is capable of running at three different clock ( […]
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SETTING THE MICROPROCESSOR CLOCK SPEED
The 80286 microprocessor in the PC40-III is capable of running at three different clock (i.e., processor or CPU) speeds:
• Standard speed 6 Mhz
• Turbo speed = 8 MHz
• Double speed = 12 MHz
The PC40-III is preset to the standard 6 MHz speed. You can switch between the clock speeds by using special key combina-
tions or by using the MS-DOS ATSPEED command.
To set the clock speed from the keyboard, usc these key sequences:
• CTRL-ALT-S for standard speed (6 MHz)
• CTRL-ALT-T for turbo speed (8MHz)
• CTRL-ALT-D for double speed (12 MHz)
NOTE: Some software may require that you select standard or turbo speeds for normal operation.
To set the clock speed using the ATSPEED command, first make sure the MS-DOS prompt is showing on the screen. Then
type the word ATSPEED, followed by a space. a dash(-), and then a letter (S, T, or D) denoting the desired speed. For
instance, if you are in standard speed and you want to change to turbo speed (R '\1Hz), type the following and press Enter:
ATSPEED -T

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Last edited by MMaximus on 2023-02-04, 22:00. Edited 1 time in total.

Hard Disk Sounds

Reply 5 of 16, by mig81

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Really thanks guys! Tomorrow I'll do some tests. hope to solve the problem with your help!
Actually I connected a common 5din keyboard but I have even its original commodore in garage...if it could be the keyboard driver problem...

I'll let you know..

Reply 6 of 16, by mig81

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weedeewee wrote:

also, is that a typo on the motherboard photo description ?

No, many or every PC30-III have inside a PC40-III motherboard without all the video (vga?) integrated chips that was added on the ufficially PC40-III.
There is even a red switch disconnected that may be a cga/vga output?

Reply 7 of 16, by mig81

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SETTING THE MICROPROCESSOR CLOCK To set the clock speed from the keyboard, usc these key sequences: • CTRL-ALT-S for standard s […]
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SETTING THE MICROPROCESSOR CLOCK
To set the clock speed from the keyboard, usc these key sequences:
• CTRL-ALT-S for standard speed (6 MHz)
• CTRL-ALT-T for turbo speed (8MHz)
• CTRL-ALT-D for double speed (12 MHz)

I tried these commands and switching at 12mhz FREZEE immediately.

How could be possible??? Maybe the crystal?

Reply 9 of 16, by weedeewee

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could be Logic chip failing that divides crystal signal.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 10 of 16, by mig81

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weedeewee wrote on 2023-02-05, 09:35:

could be Logic chip failing that divides crystal signal.

Yes, could be, thanks. But which chip is it? Maybe the FE3000A? I could try to serch a new or used one and replace it easisy.
Here attaced an extract of the PC40-III user manual with the moterboard component scheme, if someone could help.....

full manual can be downloaded here: https://ia902308.us.archive.org/0/items/pc-40 … 90_MAR_text.pdf

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Reply 11 of 16, by weedeewee

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page 55
U410 or U403

I can't find the 36MHz crystal in the manual, and looking at the photos I can't find U410.
By logic chip I mean one of the 74 series chips that are located around the crystals.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 12 of 16, by mig81

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weedeewee wrote on 2023-02-05, 11:45:

page 55
U410 or U403

thanks weedeewee, I found the U403, not yet the U410. If I can found a replacement I can unsolder these chips easily. If you are agree I'll do this work....

attached a zoom of a pc40-III motherboard with the U403 chip in red.

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Reply 13 of 16, by weedeewee

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I do not know. I'm just pondering possibilities.
If you have access to an oscilloscope then you can measure if the output signal is 12 MHz when you switch it.
At the moment i'm just guessing it might stop there on boot or after switching to it.
The problem could easily be elsewhere.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 14 of 16, by mig81

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At 8mhz works fine. If I switch at 12mhz by the bios it crashes after the floppyes check. If i switch at 12mhz by the keyboard command or with atspeed program it frezee immediately. If the crystal of 24mhz or 36mhz ,don't know, was damaged and runs at a faster speed then 12mhz and causes the crash?

I don't have the oscilloscope, only a couple of tester, solder an unsolder.

I could even don't try to fix it but changing the u403 it is an easy work and i could try if there aren t alternatives...

The cooprocessor speed of the pc30-iii is the same of the cpu speed while for the other 286 zenith z-286 lp I have, the cooprocessor speed is 2/3 of the cpu...

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Reply 16 of 16, by sloesp

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Not sure if you are still having the 12MHz crash issue on your Commodore PC30-III, but I have EXACTLY the same issue with my Commodore PC30-III.

No matter what I tried, I could not get a VGA card to work in the machine at 12MHz (0nly in 6Mhz/8MHz).
I even purchased an 8-bit VGA card, hoping that would solve my problem, but the PC still crashed, as soon as I switched it to 12MHz.

THE SOLUTION: Upgrade your BIOS from Rev. 2.01 to Rev. 2.03. See attached screenshot taken from "Commodore Techtopics #31" for reference.

LIMITATIONS: After the BIOS upgrade, an 8-bit VGA card will work in any of the four ISA slots at 12MHz. However, a 16-bit VGA card will ONLY work in the 8-bit ISA slot (otherwise it will still crash like before). Luckily most 16-bit VGA cards are backwards compatible to work in an 8-bit slot. I purchased a 16-bit Paradise PVGA1A, and that works just fine in the 8-bit slot.

Hope that helps.

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