IBMFan wrote on 2023-02-07, 10:39:

Will these just keep appreciating in value or get in the trash as soon as the generation living in that era start dying?

The latter.
Gerneration Android (and later) will not even know what to do with it.

majestyk wrote on 2023-02-07, 10:51:

The latter.
Gerneration Android (and later) will not even know what to do with it.

I disagree. I actually know personally a 7 year old child who is obsessed with vintage computer hardware and already has a 486 PC on which he actively plays retro games (and the interesting part is that his parents don't give a flying rat's ass about this stuff).
Bottom line, no matter the generation, there will always be that special 1% of people who are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of $$$ for a dinosaur egg. 😉

bloodem wrote on 2023-02-07, 11:18:

majestyk wrote on 2023-02-07, 10:51:

The latter.
Gerneration Android (and later) will not even know what to do with it.

I disagree. I actually know personally a 7 year old child who is obsessed with vintage computer hardware and already has a 486 PC on which he actively plays retro games (and the interesting part is that his parents don't give a flying rat's ass about this stuff).
Bottom line, no matter the generation, there will always be that special 1% of people who are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of $$$ for a dinosaur egg. 😉

Its the same for a lot of other old junk hobbyists, there will always be someone who collects and restores old cars, trains, boats, computers, Etc so stuff like this card will only go up in value so long as there is knowledge about the mythical Voodoo5 6000 existing in the wild.

Amateur Radio seems to be dying out for good. It used to be huge in the 70s and 80s, but now the enthusiasts are elderly and it will probably die with them.

(The sort of kid who used to tinker with radio now tinkers with computers.)

Whoever wins this will be playing q3a like its noones business.

Errius wrote on 2023-02-08, 04:30:

Amateur Radio seems to be dying out for good. It used to be huge in the 70s and 80s, but now the enthusiasts are elderly and it will probably die with them.

(The sort of kid who used to tinker with radio now tinkers with computers.)

Thanks, now I feel old. And I'm in my thirties. 😉

On-topic; I think I just stuck with my Voodoo Graphics and V2 SLI combo.

Errius wrote on 2023-02-08, 04:30:

Amateur Radio seems to be dying out for good. It used to be huge in the 70s and 80s, but now the enthusiasts are elderly and it will probably die with them.

(The sort of kid who used to tinker with radio now tinkers with computers.)

The difference is the content, amateur radio is not focused on what is or was available on the device but on pure utilization for utilization sake, retro PCs will always have software that historically ran on it, sure you emulate but there's always a stronger underlying reason to mess around with these old machines, history.

PD2JK wrote on 2023-02-08, 06:02:

Errius wrote on 2023-02-08, 04:30:

Amateur Radio seems to be dying out for good. It used to be huge in the 70s and 80s, but now the enthusiasts are elderly and it will probably die with them.

(The sort of kid who used to tinker with radio now tinkers with computers.)

Thanks, now I feel old. And I'm in my thirties. 😉

Surprising how lively the scene is in NL. I'm not part of it, but quite a few colleagues are, including ones younger than me (as you are, it seems). Now *I'm* feeling even older 😜

On-topic; I think I just stuck with my Voodoo Graphics and V2 SLI combo.

Indeed.

Big difference with the radio stuff is how fast the old computer stuff is disappearing. Even though there may have been more radio hams in the past, it was never something millions of people had, and generally the rest of the family at least knew what all that electronic crap was for and usually who else they were in touch with, so a lot of it would get passed on to other enthousiasts. With retrocomputing, most of the interesting stuff is in PCs that have completely unaware owners. They might have vague ideas that that old box in the attic or garage might be worth something, but most are utterly unaware of what's in the beige box let alone the specific value of those bits. That might not apply to V5-6k, which was never widely available, but surely does to AdLib Gold cards, most of whose stock was dumped for bargain prices. Most owners thought they had a shitty card with poor Soundblaster compatiblity and bloated drivers (the SB emulation...) - which objectively is correct. Same for pretty much all other sought-after stuff. At best it would be 'old & slow'. So huge amounts are still going to landfill. And even with the V5-6k, there are people who through incompentence kill theirs... that means shrinking supply, so even if the number of enthousiasts starts dropping at some point, prices probably won't.

PD2JK wrote on 2023-02-08, 06:02:

On-topic; I think I just stuck with my Voodoo Graphics and V2 SLI combo.

Same here with my Voodoo Graphics and Single Voodoo2 card, VSA-100 hardware isn't that really useful overall.

When I see these auctions I always consider bidding just for the fun of it. I'd be outbid anyway. But imagine what if I just happened to come out as the winner owing the price of a car or a house for a piece of plastic and silicon.

The only important ones from my point of view, were the Voodoo 1 and the Voodoo 2, when the TNT came it was the end of 3dfx, but they didn't want to see it and Ati and Nvidia followed their path, leaving 3dfx in the past.
For me, it's very difficult to believe that 3dfx didn't realize that the T&L technology was the future, I think that the people behind 3dfx didn't care a bit about their customers and only cared about their own money, and I think they also cared a lot about their parties and having fun; so I don't think that 3dfx deserves the army of followers it has, I think that they deserve to be remembered but not so much.
For me, any 3dfx card newer than a Voodoo 1 doesn't worth a lot, I have a Voodoo 2 SLI setup and when the Voodoo 2 came out I think that any important game already had Diect3D or OpenGL support making it possible to run then at 1600x1200 with a TNT card, Forsaken is a game that I played back then at that resolution, but not with my computer, back in the day I've had the TNT but not a monitor with a 1600x1200 resolution, only 1152x864 75hz, I always had problems with 60Hz on the CRTs.
And anything that uses Dx7 will be better with a Geforce or Radeon card, I guess. I also have a Voodoo 3 3000, but I rarely use it because it is slow compared to the Radeon and Geforce cards.

RandomStranger wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:14:

When I see these auctions I always consider bidding just for the fun of it. I'd be outbid anyway. But imagine what if I just happened to come out as the winner owing the price of a car or a house for a piece of plastic and silicon.

I'm like 90% sure that some of those bidders are trolling and disappear the second they win.
Or put in a few insane bids on troll accounts to discourage others from bidding then retract them when the auction is about to end.

dionb wrote on 2023-02-08, 09:45:

And even with the V5-6k, there are people who through incompentence kill theirs... that means shrinking supply, so even if the number of enthousiasts starts dropping at some point, prices probably won't.

What really confuses me for the future is that younger generation just can't use computers.
Sure, they use smartphones, tablets and web apps, but these are a ways to consume content, you can't tinker with these devices.
These are just devices promoted by online services to provide a frictionless experience for the user to consume content with ease and spend money.
Game consoles are built with that in mind too. Plug, pay, play. Nothing technical to know.

In 10y, there will be nothing to collect anymore. Because gaming will move to cloud platforms.
Software editors will go 100% for it because it will kill piracy and provide them recurrent income from subscriptions.
No more gaming PCs.

acl wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:44:

What really confuses me for the future is that younger generation just can't use computers. Sure, they use smartphones, tablets […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2023-02-08, 09:45:

And even with the V5-6k, there are people who through incompentence kill theirs... that means shrinking supply, so even if the number of enthousiasts starts dropping at some point, prices probably won't.

What really confuses me for the future is that younger generation just can't use computers.
Sure, they use smartphones, tablets and web apps, but these are a ways to consume content, you can't tinker with these devices.
These are just devices promoted by online services to provide a frictionless experience for the user to consume content with ease and spend money.
Game consoles are built with that in mind too. Plug, pay, play. Nothing technical to know.

In 10y, there will be nothing to collect anymore. Because gaming will move to cloud platforms.
Software editors will go 100% for it because it will kill piracy and provide them recurrent income from subscriptions.
No more gaming PCs.

Gaming has tried so many times to move to the cloud and FAILED ...much like VR has tried several times to get adopted and never really been successful. The most recent VR attempt has has seen the greatest traction but even now you can see the novelty wearing off and people are left wondering if the stupidly high cost is worth it.

So no I don't ever see cloud gaming having any real adoption, if Google/Microsoft/nVidia cant make that shit happen then there is little to no chance of anyone else doing it, that aside the communication networks around the world simply cant support the speeds it needs out side of the US or other countries like Korea and Japan.

So like VR itll remain a niche thing even in 10years ...the reality here is fucking nothing much will change even in 20years with communication networks ..infrastructure is always going to lag behind.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:52:

Gaming has tried so many times to move to the cloud and FAILED ...much like VR has tried several times to get adopted and never really been successful. The most recent VR attempt has has seen the greatest traction but even now you can see the novelty wearing off and people are left wondering if the stupidly high cost is worth it.

So no I don't ever see cloud gaming having any real adoption, if Google/Microsoft/nVidia cant make that shit happen then there is little to no chance of anyone else doing it, that aside the communication networks around the world simply cant support the speeds it needs out side of the US or other countries like Korea and Japan.

So like VR itll remain a niche thing even in 10years ...the reality here is fucking nothing much will change even in 20years with communication networks ..infrastructure is always going to lag behind.

I disagree, cloud gaming will be inevitably adopted in the long term once all the global inconsistencies with network speed and latencies are dealt with. VR is seen as unsuccessful due to lack of practical usages beyond gaming for consumers.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:22:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:52:

Gaming has tried so many times to move to the cloud and FAILED ...much like VR has tried several times to get adopted and never really been successful. The most recent VR attempt has has seen the greatest traction but even now you can see the novelty wearing off and people are left wondering if the stupidly high cost is worth it.

So no I don't ever see cloud gaming having any real adoption, if Google/Microsoft/nVidia cant make that shit happen then there is little to no chance of anyone else doing it, that aside the communication networks around the world simply cant support the speeds it needs out side of the US or other countries like Korea and Japan.

So like VR itll remain a niche thing even in 10years ...the reality here is fucking nothing much will change even in 20years with communication networks ..infrastructure is always going to lag behind.

I disagree, cloud gaming will be inevitably adopted in the long term once all the global inconsistencies with network speed and latencies are dealt with. VR is seen as unsuccessful due to lack of practical usages beyond gaming for consumers.

No I fear it'll not be in our lives or our children's children's lives, the task you are talking about to get the worlds communications to an acceptable level for cloud gaming is massive and by the time it does it wont be required. This aside .. just where do you think the money required for this task will come from? ...the US is already close to defaulting on its debts and the rest of the world is dealing with skyrocketing inflation and unrest. We are not talking about a small sum here either, its likely to be bigger than the trillion dollar debt the US has.

Its nice to say you disagree but the reality is that many nations simply cannot afford the cost and the ones that can are spending it on more important things than communications infrastructure.

So I respectfully disagree with you, its not happening in our life times or the next.

That fact that remote processing is inevitable is one of the reasons I keep as up to date a PC as possible and collect vintage hardware as well. You can have my personal computing when you pry it from my cold dead basement.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:33:

No I fear it'll not be in our lives or our children's children's lives, the task you are talking about to get the worlds communi […]
Show full quote

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:22:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:52:

Gaming has tried so many times to move to the cloud and FAILED ...much like VR has tried several times to get adopted and never really been successful. The most recent VR attempt has has seen the greatest traction but even now you can see the novelty wearing off and people are left wondering if the stupidly high cost is worth it.

So no I don't ever see cloud gaming having any real adoption, if Google/Microsoft/nVidia cant make that shit happen then there is little to no chance of anyone else doing it, that aside the communication networks around the world simply cant support the speeds it needs out side of the US or other countries like Korea and Japan.

So like VR itll remain a niche thing even in 10years ...the reality here is fucking nothing much will change even in 20years with communication networks ..infrastructure is always going to lag behind.

I disagree, cloud gaming will be inevitably adopted in the long term once all the global inconsistencies with network speed and latencies are dealt with. VR is seen as unsuccessful due to lack of practical usages beyond gaming for consumers.

No I fear it'll not be in our lives or our children's children's lives, the task you are talking about to get the worlds communications to an acceptable level for cloud gaming is massive and by the time it does it wont be required. This aside .. just where do you think the money required for this task will come from? ...the US is already close to defaulting on its debts and the rest of the world is dealing with skyrocketing inflation and unrest. We are not talking about a small sum here either, its likely to be bigger than the trillion dollar debt the US has.

Its nice to say you disagree but the reality is that many nations simply cannot afford the cost and the ones that can are spending it on more important things than communications infrastructure.

So I respectfully disagree with you, its not happening in our life times or the next.

And I agree with him. Physical media is already dead. There are gaming consoles without optical drives and it's been the norm for PCs to be built without an optical drive for at least half a decade now. 20 years ago when I first had internet at home, it was 1MB/s for download and 128kb/s for upload, now I have 1Gbps both ways and that's not the fastest that is available. And for cell services 5G is already here-ish. On top of all, gaming subscription services like Game Pass are overwhelmingly popular with younger and/or casual gamers. The only difference compared to streaming is that you are allowed to fully download the game, but still don't own shit, only a license to use the subscription service itself, but nothing regarding individual games.

I can easily see game streaming gaining ground over the next 10 years.

acl wrote on 2023-02-08, 13:44:

What really confuses me for the future is that younger generation just can't use computers. Sure, they use smartphones, tablets […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2023-02-08, 09:45:

And even with the V5-6k, there are people who through incompentence kill theirs... that means shrinking supply, so even if the number of enthousiasts starts dropping at some point, prices probably won't.

What really confuses me for the future is that younger generation just can't use computers.
Sure, they use smartphones, tablets and web apps, but these are a ways to consume content, you can't tinker with these devices.
These are just devices promoted by online services to provide a frictionless experience for the user to consume content with ease and spend money.
Game consoles are built with that in mind too. Plug, pay, play. Nothing technical to know.

In 10y, there will be nothing to collect anymore. Because gaming will move to cloud platforms.
Software editors will go 100% for it because it will kill piracy and provide them recurrent income from subscriptions.
No more gaming PCs.

Those are two very separate things, and I'm not so concerned about the former.

Thing is, we're seeing the same with computer literacy as we see with regular literacy: in the past a small group of highly invested people were involved with computing (as with writing books) so everyone who used them appeared competent. Instead now absolutely everyone is online on some sort of device and just as people lament the state of the English (or indeed any other) language with all the crap posted on social media, the thing to bear in mind is that the vast majority of those would never even have written anything in the past, let alone published it so we could read it. Underneath all that there are still just as many people deeply into language and writing as before, it's just they've become a small minority so you don't see them. Same with computers: there are still enough geeks like us in the younger generation. You just don't see them as they are outnumbered by all the casual smartphone/laptop users who in the past would never have gone near a computer.

My three children are doing well enough, only one actively interested in retro computing (mainly hacking our antiquated Wii console, although he's now working on getting an Xbox 360 controller working on the PC), but my eldest can strip & rebuild their PC if needed and my youngest loves driving his teachers mad by messing around with HTML in the browser inspector and adding very erm... poopy things into his (and his classmates') schoolwork.

As for the frictionless experience - be glad it usually is and the less technically inclined don't need continuous support. Those who are still can have enough fun with the supposedly 'closed' hardware. And as for everything in the cloud:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:22:

[...]

I disagree, cloud gaming will be inevitably adopted in the long term once all the global inconsistencies with network speed and latencies are dealt with.

Definitely. And I think that that will happen around the same time we have world peace and equitable distribution of income and resources 😉

RandomStranger wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:59:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:33:

No I fear it'll not be in our lives or our children's children's lives, the task you are talking about to get the worlds communi […]
Show full quote

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-02-08, 14:22:

I disagree, cloud gaming will be inevitably adopted in the long term once all the global inconsistencies with network speed and latencies are dealt with. VR is seen as unsuccessful due to lack of practical usages beyond gaming for consumers.

No I fear it'll not be in our lives or our children's children's lives, the task you are talking about to get the worlds communications to an acceptable level for cloud gaming is massive and by the time it does it wont be required. This aside .. just where do you think the money required for this task will come from? ...the US is already close to defaulting on its debts and the rest of the world is dealing with skyrocketing inflation and unrest. We are not talking about a small sum here either, its likely to be bigger than the trillion dollar debt the US has.

Its nice to say you disagree but the reality is that many nations simply cannot afford the cost and the ones that can are spending it on more important things than communications infrastructure.

So I respectfully disagree with you, its not happening in our life times or the next.

And I agree with him. Physical media is already dead. There are gaming consoles without optical drives and it's been the norm for PCs to be built without an optical drive for at least half a decade now. 20 years ago when I first had internet at home, it was 1MB/s for download and 128kb/s for upload, now I have 1Gbps both ways and that's not the fastest that is available. And for cell services 5G is already here-ish. On top of all, gaming subscription services like Game Pass are overwhelmingly popular with younger and/or casual gamers. The only difference compared to streaming is that you are allowed to fully download the game, but still don't own shit, only a license to use the subscription service itself, but nothing regarding individual games.

I can easily see game streaming gaining ground over the next 10 years.

I can see another world war occurring well before then, I believe that if it ever does happen it'll only be for the few countries that can afford the huge cost of building the supporting infrastructure, the rest of the world will make do without.

As for myself .. never, ill sit back and watch it burn much like current attempts at it have gone, I was right about Googles attempt.