andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary...

Hi Andy! Welcome at Vogons!
As a long time user here I do fully agree, there are many interesting people here,
with various different interests in retro computing.

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

This is so that I can squeeze in my Quadram 186 CPU upgrade card (Quadspeed I think it is...)
to help muster a little more punch for 3D/Vector dos games on period hardware - which is my particular kink...

That's really cool! I love those old vector graphics, too.
Always remind me of StarWing on the Super Ninentdo.. ^^

Some DOS games to check:

- The Colony
- Xenomorph (Alien inspired)
- Silpheed
- StarFlight (landing sequence)
- Alpha Waves (by Infogrames)
- Interphase
- Flight Simulator series, of course

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

So to the question at last - Anyone know of any more 8-bit options / or one of the much more common 16-bit combo cards
that is happy in an 8-bit slot / know of where any of the above are lurking, waiting to complete my dream 5150?

I'm sorry, I seriously don't know. I do own a few XT class system, but I'm still learning..
Here on Vogons, as well as on vcfed.org, are quite a few kind souls who know about these things!
So don't worry. I'm sure someone can help, it just takes a short while, maybe. 😀 👍

Best wishes,
Jo22

PS: Andy, you may already know this, but minuszerodegrees.net is a great site for x86 vintage computing.
There's a manual section, which you can check, too. Maybe these can help you finding about 8-Bit compatibility..
https://www.minuszerodegrees.net/manuals.htm

Thanks for the pointers Jo22! I'll be looking some of those games up...

I'd have been lost this past year without -0 Degrees, but this particular rarely trodden corner of early PC's is even pushing that great repository!

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 15:01:

Thanks for the pointers Jo22! I'll be looking some of those games up...

I'd have been lost this past year without -0 Degrees, but this particular rarely trodden corner of early PC's is even pushing that great repository!

You're welcome! ^^

Yes, minuszerodegrees is a fine site, I've discovered by browsing vcfed forums a few years ago..
Quite some other users here also use it as a source of information, I think.
It also has a BIOS section, among other things. Very useful.

I've did a few video clips, too, to document my retro experiments, by the way.
Quite a few contain an XT class PC, too. It's not so much gaming related, sadly.

Here's a quick list to what comes to mind (all XT related), maybe a few things are useful to you.
I hope you don't mind for adding the little list here - it's just a rare happening that I met a fellow person into 3D on vintage hardware.
Btw, I don't mean to hijack your thread; the list also is restricted to contain only videos of my XT (Nixdorf 8810 M35 as of now).

2D/3D graphics related
3D fractal landscapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3tIuQ27Gb4
Benefits of a math co-processor (8087): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGCUErENKBA
8088 vs 8087+8088 (ZOOM): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItA-_D2QkTk
15 minutes of Magic ScreenSaver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCV8OPVY-uE
AutoSketch, "flower.skd" as a benchmark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIBTp7P-hS0

Misc
IC-DATABASE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZK64LaUn0
LoveDOS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIBTp7P-hS0
Tracking ISS with an XT PC (STS+, Hercules, 8087): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXGWvsKmJ0k
More than 640K of Base Memory on a PC/XT (704K): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMB8XvwUJo
Above Disc EMS Simulator on XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539tnsX-Zso
Hellschreiber decoding on an PC/XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2zLL0Z-zI4
The Game of Life (MS Windows/1986) on XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Vhow8kne4
Running MCS BASIC-52 on a PC/XT compatible PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehMmCONQWo
Running PC-MOS/386 on an XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehMmCONQWo and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkAVojQbi4

Music
"Babylon is Fallen" (PC Speaker): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROYwXY-kPe4
Winter Wrap-Up on a PC with CGA screen / PC speaker [DOS]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6H4rYUx-Jo
Yester.bas [BASICA]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Nd4Ahcw40
Flashdnc.bas (BASICA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BT0MbVwJs

CGA/Hercules graphics
MGAView / Hercules Amber CRT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKCphBy2jGg
Hercules GIF viewer on PC/XT compatible PC (not by me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BT0MbVwJs
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqxxCbudHBY
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zTzLlukzQI
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #3 (Hi-Res): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O70w_g1hOlo

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary... […]
Show full quote

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary...

I'd like to free up a precious slot in my 5150 by using a combined 360k floppy and MFM HDD controller rather that the usual two separate ones.

This is so that I can squeeze in my Quadram 186 CPU upgrade card (Quadspeed I think it is...) to help muster a little more punch for 3D/Vector dos games on period hardware - which is my particular kink...

The 5 slots will then contain:

Adlib
AST SixPackPlus
IBM EGA - with RAM addon
Quadram Quadsprint
**Floppy/HDD Combo

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere:

Evorex EV-390
Longshine LCS6220
RMT RMT2001-F2H2

So to the question at last - Anyone know of any more 8-bit options / or one of the much more common 16-bit combo cards that is happy in an 8-bit slot / know of where any of the above are lurking, waiting to complete my dream 5150?

Here's hoping...

Andy

There is an LCS-6220 on ebay right now pretty cheap I will DM you a link

Ok, let's got back on topic..

I've checked your list of ISA cards...

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere: […]
Show full quote

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere:

Evorex EV-390
Longshine LCS6220
RMT RMT2001-F2H2

These seem to be all MFM/RLL related HDD+Floppy combo controllers..
Do you plan to build your dream 5160 with a classic MFM/RLL fixed-disk ? 😀
If yes, then I can fully relate. I just love this sound. ^^

If not, then SCSI controllers are worth a try, too!
Some come with a high-speed floppy controller, supporting up to four floppy drives.

Now, I don't know exactly which models support 8-Bit operation,
but my father was very impressed by SCSI last time we talked about vintage PCs.

He told me that he had upgraded many PCs by installing SCSI way back in the 80s and 90s.
SCSI fixed a lot of problems, thanks to the on-board BIOS and the mature design, he essentially told me.

If SCSI is nothing for you, how about a filecard/hardcard? It has no floppy controller, often, but it can save some space.

These are just ideas, of course. Please excuse me for being a bit too chatty, also.

If I knew an answer to your question, I wouldn't need to talk that much and could give you a definite answer, rather. 😅

Edit: @maxtherabbit Sorry, missed your post, was still typing. 😅 Thanks for supporting the OP, too! 😀 👍

Edit: I've checked for MFM/RLL combo cards.. Found a short old thread on vcfed:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/com … ntroller.44442/
- The S.D.Systems Versa-Floppy-Winchester III
- The Seagate ST-02 (8-Bit, SCSI with support for two floppy drives)

Edit: I'm afraid I can't find anything else so far. Hm. Maybe this is an interesting read, at least?
http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2016/05/w … e-mfm-hard.html

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:00:

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary... […]
Show full quote

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary...

I'd like to free up a precious slot in my 5150 by using a combined 360k floppy and MFM HDD controller rather that the usual two separate ones.

This is so that I can squeeze in my Quadram 186 CPU upgrade card (Quadspeed I think it is...) to help muster a little more punch for 3D/Vector dos games on period hardware - which is my particular kink...

The 5 slots will then contain:

Adlib
AST SixPackPlus
IBM EGA - with RAM addon
Quadram Quadsprint
**Floppy/HDD Combo

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere:

Evorex EV-390
Longshine LCS6220
RMT RMT2001-F2H2

So to the question at last - Anyone know of any more 8-bit options / or one of the much more common 16-bit combo cards that is happy in an 8-bit slot / know of where any of the above are lurking, waiting to complete my dream 5150?

Here's hoping...

Andy

There is an LCS-6220 on ebay right now pretty cheap I will DM you a link

I've seen a bunch of LCS-6620's on eBay, but these are the 16-bit version of the 6220 - if it is a 6220 you've seen I'm gunna snap it up!

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:25:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:00:

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 12:48:

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary... […]
Show full quote

Hi, I'm new to Vogons, but figured that it was the most knowledgeable place to pose this quandary...

I'd like to free up a precious slot in my 5150 by using a combined 360k floppy and MFM HDD controller rather that the usual two separate ones.

This is so that I can squeeze in my Quadram 186 CPU upgrade card (Quadspeed I think it is...) to help muster a little more punch for 3D/Vector dos games on period hardware - which is my particular kink...

The 5 slots will then contain:

Adlib
AST SixPackPlus
IBM EGA - with RAM addon
Quadram Quadsprint
**Floppy/HDD Combo

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere:

Evorex EV-390
Longshine LCS6220
RMT RMT2001-F2H2

So to the question at last - Anyone know of any more 8-bit options / or one of the much more common 16-bit combo cards that is happy in an 8-bit slot / know of where any of the above are lurking, waiting to complete my dream 5150?

Here's hoping...

Andy

There is an LCS-6220 on ebay right now pretty cheap I will DM you a link

I've seen a bunch of LCS-6620's on eBay, but these are the 16-bit version of the 6220 - if it is a 6220 you've seen I'm gunna snap it up!

It is 8 bit indeed. It's just listed under an extremely generic title. Check your DMs

Jo22 wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:10:

Ok, let's got back on topic.. […]
Show full quote

Ok, let's got back on topic..

I've checked your list of ISA cards...

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere: […]
Show full quote

**I THINK I've identified 3 options, but can't find any of them anywhere:

Evorex EV-390
Longshine LCS6220
RMT RMT2001-F2H2

These seem to be all MFM/RLL related HDD+Floppy combo controllers..
Do you plan to build your dream 5160 with a classic MFM/RLL fixed-disk ? 😀
If yes, then I can fully relate. I just love this sound. ^^

If not, then SCSI controllers are worth a try, too!
Some come with a high-speed floppy controller, supporting up to four floppy drives.

Now, I don't know exactly which models support 8-Bit operation,
but my father was very impressed by SCSI last time we talked about vintage PCs.

He told me that he had upgraded many PCs by installing SCSI way back in the 80s and 90s.
SCSI fixed a lot of problems, thanks to the on-board BIOS and the mature design, he essentially told me.

If SCSI is nothing for you, how about a filecard/hardcard? It has no floppy controller, often, but it can save some space.

These are just ideas, of course. Please excuse me for being a bit too chatty, also.

If I knew an answer to your question, I wouldn't need to talk that much and could give you a definite answer, rather. 😅

Edit: @maxtherabbit Sorry, missed your post, was still typing. 😅 Thanks for supporting the OP, too! 😀 👍

Edit: I've checked for MFM/RLL combo cards.. Found a short old thread on vcfed:
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/com … ntroller.44442/
- The S.D.Systems Versa-Floppy-Winchester III
- The Seagate ST-02 (8-Bit, SCSI with support for two floppy drives)

It's to be used with an existing 40-odd MB Miniscribe full height MFM disk that still delivering sterling service!

I dont know why, but the older/earlier the hardware is, the better - there are many easier and more reliable ways I suppose...

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:26:

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:25:

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-02-13, 16:00:

There is an LCS-6220 on ebay right now pretty cheap I will DM you a link

I've seen a bunch of LCS-6620's on eBay, but these are the 16-bit version of the 6220 - if it is a 6220 you've seen I'm gunna snap it up!

It is 8 bit indeed. It's just listed under an extremely generic title. Check your DMs

Epic spot - your eBay divining powers are impressive!

Anyway - bought it, so fingers crossed it works/ is compatible etc...

Thanks again!

Jo22 wrote on 2023-02-13, 15:58:

You're welcome! ^^ […]
Show full quote

andy111s wrote on 2023-02-13, 15:01:

Thanks for the pointers Jo22! I'll be looking some of those games up...

I'd have been lost this past year without -0 Degrees, but this particular rarely trodden corner of early PC's is even pushing that great repository!

You're welcome! ^^

Yes, minuszerodegrees is a fine site, I've discovered by browsing vcfed forums a few years ago..
Quite some other users here also use it as a source of information, I think.
It also has a BIOS section, among other things. Very useful.

I've did a few video clips, too, to document my retro experiments, by the way.
Quite a few contain an XT class PC, too. It's not so much gaming related, sadly.

Here's a quick list to what comes to mind (all XT related), maybe a few things are useful to you.
I hope you don't mind for adding the little list here - it's just a rare happening that I met a fellow person into 3D on vintage hardware.
Btw, I don't mean to hijack your thread; the list also is restricted to contain only videos of my XT (Nixdorf 8810 M35 as of now).

2D/3D graphics related
3D fractal landscapes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3tIuQ27Gb4
Benefits of a math co-processor (8087): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGCUErENKBA
8088 vs 8087+8088 (ZOOM): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItA-_D2QkTk
15 minutes of Magic ScreenSaver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCV8OPVY-uE
AutoSketch, "flower.skd" as a benchmark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIBTp7P-hS0

Misc
IC-DATABASE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZK64LaUn0
LoveDOS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIBTp7P-hS0
Tracking ISS with an XT PC (STS+, Hercules, 8087): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXGWvsKmJ0k
More than 640K of Base Memory on a PC/XT (704K): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nMB8XvwUJo
Above Disc EMS Simulator on XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=539tnsX-Zso
Hellschreiber decoding on an PC/XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2zLL0Z-zI4
The Game of Life (MS Windows/1986) on XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1Vhow8kne4
Running MCS BASIC-52 on a PC/XT compatible PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehMmCONQWo
Running PC-MOS/386 on an XT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vehMmCONQWo and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkAVojQbi4

Music
"Babylon is Fallen" (PC Speaker): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROYwXY-kPe4
Winter Wrap-Up on a PC with CGA screen / PC speaker [DOS]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6H4rYUx-Jo
Yester.bas [BASICA]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Nd4Ahcw40
Flashdnc.bas (BASICA): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BT0MbVwJs

CGA/Hercules graphics
MGAView / Hercules Amber CRT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKCphBy2jGg
Hercules GIF viewer on PC/XT compatible PC (not by me): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-BT0MbVwJs
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqxxCbudHBY
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zTzLlukzQI
BLOADing CGA images on a DOS PC w/ green monitor #3 (Hi-Res): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O70w_g1hOlo

Thanks for taking the time to share, I will have a browse through the links!