VOGONS


Wine vs. XP

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First post, by WearyWulf

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I'm looking into doing some retro gaming on a thin client, and wondering the best way to do it.

Preface

I've been considering nabbing a cheapo thin client for playing some old Windows games. There are a few reasons I'm avoiding Windows 9x though.

The first of which is that I'm not made of money and with 9X I think I'd be looking at getting a client, a small AGP card, and an external sound card to get even decent results. Cost of living has made things a little too tight to go on spending sprees where older, failure-prone components from semi-reputable sellers are concerned.

Secondly, I'm getting old and I'm already disabled with motor control issues. So... messing around with computer innards from a time when it was so much more fiddly (and it involved jumpers!) isn't a thought I relish any longer. Then there's getting components which work with drivers which are still available, and stable. XP is just a more reasonable target for my sanity.

Third, and finally, I have limited space so it would ideally be a thin client of some description. I just get the feeling that using thin clients with 9X is just asking for trouble, and requires more expensive and external components (as I mentioned).

So, I settled on XP. It does enough of what I want and less of a nightmare to deal with.

The Question

I've been doing some noodling, ruminating, and research and I've come to wonder whether perhaps a modern—yet very light—Linux distro would serve better for compatibility on a thin client than XP. I don't know that it would, though. Perhaps XP could yield greater results. Or not? Who knows? I don't. So I'm asking the experts.

I mean, I do have some familiarity with Wine. I also understand that it's a little limited with what DirectX versions it can use, but then maybe compatibility layers could help with that? That and DosBox for anything that would run there.

So: Would I have a wider spread of games available to me by using Linux (Wine) or XP on a thin client? I'm not looking for an authoritative answer, I know that's unlikely, but just a best guess from those with experience.

Reply 2 of 10, by acl

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I've used wine for a (very very) long time.
I've switched to Linux about 15years ago while still gaming on a regular basis.
Wine/Proton made huge leaps in the last 5/6 years, but... mostly on supporting recent games.

WineHq appdb should answer to most of your questions. PlayOnLinux and Lutris also helps a lot .
But there are some games that still hard to run on Linux.

I've never been too involved in dos gaming (not my generation). I'm mostly interested by the 1996-2009 period. And to be honest, Linux is quite good at running games from this era. But it sometimes involve some hacks. And I can't really recommend it to someone not experienced with GNU/Linux. (I don't know if you are)

I would recommend you to check the compatibility on a game to game basis on Lutris (quite up to date) PlayOnLinux and WineHQ Appdb first.

Today, i only play modern games on Linux (on a desktop and a SteamDeck). And retro games on period correct hardware, because my collection can now cover my 1996-2009 period…

"Hello, my friend. Stay awhile and listen..."
My collection (not up to date)

Reply 3 of 10, by the3dfxdude

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I've had a long a interesting experience with Linux and Wine since I went to linux in 2000. I know many of these people and have worked with them. It's interesting to have been part of this process to bring things to this point today.

Then as it is even today, I see Wine as a great way to bring people over and keep existing application support. Wine can be described as a compatibility layer itself! Yes it is not going to be perfect, but look at it now, it is pretty good! If your concern is games, generally you can do what has been recommended, have a little patience when things don't work, read up the great guides out there, and honestly, there are 1000s of options (native and non-native). There is also always emulation options too (Run WinXP on your system even!). If something doesn't work, take a break and try another game. I don't think there would be ever a time where you can't find something fun to do that is easy to get running.

Linux was always capable as a games platform. I played some of the first games, including the first commercial ones. I'm not sure what really went wrong other than some people making stupid mistakes financially for their company (linux orientated companies were small and fragile in 2000), or maybe people just bad mouthing linux for some reason (i.e. microsoft). Those were never real logical reasons against using it. But one thing that is different today than was in 2000 really is the mindset has changed. Then I would have said to you have to be willing to strike out on your own, as while Wine has always been around and been good at playing games for a long time, you actually had no support from the overall ecosystem then. The Wine guys are great, they can fix things, but usually you had to have a hand in it, because they had alot to do, and they were working on a compatibility layer that emulated the Windows system, first and foremost. The difference today is that you do have Valve, and they support you as a gamer, if you use steam on linux. And they use a version of Wine they test for you on many games! This is support. So I recommend starting with Steam first especially if you use it. Lutris is good for other things too if you want to go there. But the experience probably will be the best if you launch and load things as they are through steam.

But since steam is a modern thing, I guess the next thing to ask, is would you be willing to run a system that is a little newer than a WinXP oriented system? You could try to do more on your own with an older system. I think the best experience would be a modern system with steam though.

Reply 4 of 10, by theelf

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acl wrote on 2023-03-24, 19:53:
I've used wine for a (very very) long time. I've switched to Linux about 15years ago while still gaming on a regular basis. Wine […]
Show full quote

I've used wine for a (very very) long time.
I've switched to Linux about 15years ago while still gaming on a regular basis.
Wine/Proton made huge leaps in the last 5/6 years, but... mostly on supporting recent games.

WineHq appdb should answer to most of your questions. PlayOnLinux and Lutris also helps a lot .
But there are some games that still hard to run on Linux.

I've never been too involved in dos gaming (not my generation). I'm mostly interested by the 1996-2009 period. And to be honest, Linux is quite good at running games from this era. But it sometimes involve some hacks. And I can't really recommend it to someone not experienced with GNU/Linux. (I don't know if you are)

I would recommend you to check the compatibility on a game to game basis on Lutris (quite up to date) PlayOnLinux and WineHQ Appdb first.

Today, i only play modern games on Linux (on a desktop and a SteamDeck). And retro games on period correct hardware, because my collection can now cover my 1996-2009 period…

I see wine in a thin client is a nonsense

a thin client with 800mhz c3, 256mb ram, sis gpu and 1GB CF will run XP perfectly + DX7/gl until quake 3 more.or less era, voodoo wrappers etc

a thin client with amd 1ghz, radeon x1200, 2gb CF, will have custom resolutions, dx9, plus more power to use dosbox and some emulators like x68000, amiga, etc

Reply 5 of 10, by RandomStranger

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I was always curious what Zotac ZBOX mini PCs can do in XP. The ID84 and the AD06 seems to have decent specs for early XP. At least compared to most thin clients.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 6 of 10, by theelf

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-24, 22:56:

I was always curious what Zotac ZBOX mini PCs can do in XP. The ID84 and the AD06 seems to have decent specs for early XP. At least compared to most thin clients.

New nvidia and ati gpu have problems with custom resolutions in XP. nvidia up to 9800GT , ATI up to 48xx and intel from GMA x3100 (GMA915+ too but less) are the best. And have 320x200, 320x240, 320x400, 400x300, 512x384, etc is a good for old games

I tested some thin client with new ati cards, and have problems with loew resolutions (320x200 etc)

Reply 7 of 10, by RandomStranger

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theelf wrote on 2023-03-25, 01:10:
RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-24, 22:56:

I was always curious what Zotac ZBOX mini PCs can do in XP. The ID84 and the AD06 seems to have decent specs for early XP. At least compared to most thin clients.

New nvidia and ati gpu have problems with custom resolutions in XP. nvidia up to 9800GT , ATI up to 48xx and intel from GMA x3100 (GMA915+ too but less) are the best. And have 320x200, 320x240, 320x400, 400x300, 512x384, etc is a good for old games

I tested some thin client with new ati cards, and have problems with loew resolutions (320x200 etc)

But is that even an issue for XP? At least other than some edge cases. Period correct resolutions for the XP era is between 1024×758 and 1920×1200 and for the late W98 era games that might come into play are between 640×480 and 1600×1200.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 8 of 10, by theelf

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-25, 09:10:
theelf wrote on 2023-03-25, 01:10:
RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-24, 22:56:

I was always curious what Zotac ZBOX mini PCs can do in XP. The ID84 and the AD06 seems to have decent specs for early XP. At least compared to most thin clients.

New nvidia and ati gpu have problems with custom resolutions in XP. nvidia up to 9800GT , ATI up to 48xx and intel from GMA x3100 (GMA915+ too but less) are the best. And have 320x200, 320x240, 320x400, 400x300, 512x384, etc is a good for old games

I tested some thin client with new ati cards, and have problems with loew resolutions (320x200 etc)

But is that even an issue for XP? At least other than some edge cases. Period correct resolutions for the XP era is between 1024×758 and 1920×1200 and for the late W98 era games that might come into play are between 640×480 and 1600×1200.

You will not buy a thin client to play Doom 3

A thin client is to play all posible win9x games, with NT benefits and try to reduce all NT problems to minimum

A thin client is perfect to use with CRT, voodoo wrappers, low resolutions etc

Reply 9 of 10, by RandomStranger

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theelf wrote on 2023-03-25, 09:24:

You will not buy a thin client to play Doom 3

I do whatever I want with my thin clients. Now I'm tempted to buy one just to play Doom 3 🤷🏼‍♂️
I also recommended mini PCs instead of thin clients.

sreq.png retrogamer-s.png

Reply 10 of 10, by theelf

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RandomStranger wrote on 2023-03-25, 10:22:
theelf wrote on 2023-03-25, 09:24:

You will not buy a thin client to play Doom 3

I do whatever I want with my thin clients. Now I'm tempted to buy one just to play Doom 3 🤷🏼‍♂️
I also recommended mini PCs instead of thin clients.

Yes, you can enjoy with a hammer too, you paid, is yours

But dont spect cheap thin clients to be good at doom 3, even q3 is too much to mnay of them at more than 640x480