VOGONS


First post, by Siran

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

After I've recently found some of my old PCs while clearing out the attic I came across my very own first PC: An AMD 386 DX 40 on a 4386-VC-HD board with 8MB RAM, a "HighScreen Blaster 3.0" (Soundblaster 2.0 clone based on CPS' Soundblaster 2.5), 120MB Connor HDD and a Trident TVGA 9000B with a whopping 512KB VRAM.

I even got it to post, albeit the dreaded Dallas RTC reared its ugly head and greeted me with a CMOS battery error. I then opened the case and to my great surprise realised that not only did my late father who used it after I got a new PC upgrade it with a 387 FPU but the board could also house a 486 DX/2 66 instead of an FPU:

20230520_114835.jpg
Filename
20230520_114835.jpg
File size
845.93 KiB
Views
859 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

According to the manual (thank got I kept it) if you want to install a 486 DX/2 66 you'd have to switch two resistors, swap the oscillator to a 33MHz model (currently it has a 80MHz model installed due to the 386 DX 40) and set the jumpers accordingly:

20230331_111854.jpg
Filename
20230331_111854.jpg
File size
872.12 KiB
Views
859 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception
20230520_191643.jpg
Filename
20230520_191643.jpg
File size
637.15 KiB
Views
859 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Apart from the switching resistors, setting jumpers and swapping the oscillator do I need to do anything else before upgrading the board? For instance when I looked at the BIOS chip on the mainboard I got worried since it says "386DX". Does that mean I also need a new BIOS for a potential 486 DX/2 upgrade? I've found several pictures and a video by VSwitchZero that show that there are indeed BIOS chips that are labeled "486DX". See his video here (he also has a 386 installed): https://youtu.be/MV8nkl1Cjw0. Here's a picture of my BIOS chip:

20230520_140514.jpg
Filename
20230520_140514.jpg
File size
201.5 KiB
Views
859 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

If I need a new BIOS - can I flash it? The first time I flashed a BIOS was on a later Asus T2P4 board (that I also found in the attic) so I'm not sure if it is even possible and if it is what program to use. If it can't be flashed would I need someone with an eeprom flash tool? I've found several BIOS versions for the board here: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/fic-4386-vc-hd.

I'm planning on tinkering a bit with the board. First, I'm getting the Dallas IC replaced so that I can properly use it, then I plan on upgrading the cache to a full 256K. I'll also need an HDD replacement since the trusty 120MB Connor HDD did not survive the almost 30 years in the attic. I'm torn between using an old 500MB IDE drive I have left, an IDE/SD-card adaptor and going all in with an old Compaq SCSI ISA controller that has a AIC-6260AL chipset since I still have a Seagate Cheetah 9GB with 10K RPM (that needs extra cooling and is loud so I guess I'll skip that) and an IBM Ultrastar with 18.2 GB. Even though these are U2W HDDs I recently got a working cable to attach them to a standard SCSI 50-pin controller.

Reply 1 of 8, by jesolo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I have the same motherboard and, to get it to POST, I had to replace the Dallas RTC (fortunately, I was able to secure a "new old stock" Dallas RTC that still worked fine).
This motherboard is very similar to the OPTI495 chipset-based range of "hybrid" motherboards that could also accept both 386 or 486 (5v) CPU's. However, most OPTI boards I've come across do not require a user to swop out either the crystal oscillator or resistors.

Regarding the BIOS ROM chip - it's perfectly fine for it to display "386DX" since it's (by default) a 386 motherboard that can upgrade to a 486 CPU. The BIOS ROM itself does support both 386 & 486 (5v) CPU's - if you dump the BIOS ROM contents with a utility like Navratil System Information (NSSI) and read the contents of the BIOS ROM (with an ASCII editor), then you'll see the list of CPU's supported.

No, you cannot flash this BIOS ROM chip (at least, not directly in the motherboard) - it is an EPROM chip and to reprogram it, you need to physically remove the chip, erase the contents in an EPROM UV eraser and then write the new contents to the chip with an E(E)PROM programmer. I wouldn't recommend this.
If you do find a more up to date BIOS ROM version, rather use a drop-in replacement EEPROM chip (like the W27C512).
Check out this link (and the downloads section): https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/fic-4386-vc-hd

You will definitely benefit by upgrading the CPU from a 386DX 40 MHz to a 486DX2 66 MHz which will the make for a great late 80's to early 90's DOS based system.
Just be aware that, once you go above a 486 DX 33 MHz, you will be slightly bottlenecked by the ISA bus (in terms of your graphics card throughput), particularly in games like Doom. Unfortunately, this motherboard does not have any VESA Local Bus slots that you can benefit from.

PS: If have some time, scan in the entire manual and share it with the community that houses the information on the Retroweb (there is a Vogons page as well where you can make contributions).

Reply 2 of 8, by Siran

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Thanks so much for the reply!

I will scan the manual next time I have the chance. Although Retroweb already has the manual but I believe mine is a newer revision from December '92.

I have never come across anything similar like switching resistors and swapping oscillators in order to upgrade a CPU that's why I wanted to make sure I interpreted it correctly (the manual only has the table, no description of the necessary steps). All my attempts at upgrading only started later with the T2P4 board.

I'm glad I don't need a new BIOS chip or an eeprom programmer, thanks for confirming.

Strange that yours didn't post with a drained battery alone. Here's my post screen:

20230331_102425.jpg
Filename
20230331_102425.jpg
File size
1.12 MiB
Views
814 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

I even got mine to boot by removing the HDD and booting from FDD. It wouldn't save the HDD parameters and without HDD Auto Detect no IDE HDD would ever work without a good battery. Even though the FDD defaulted to a 5.25 1.2 MB drive in BIOS I could use a 1.44MB 3.5 disc, it just wouldn't read past 1.2MB. Of course I had to do a bit of benchmarking (a bit strange that writing is faster and doesn't drop off like reading after the cache is exhausted)

20230429_142336.jpg
Filename
20230429_142336.jpg
File size
201.55 KiB
Views
814 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

I once had a 486 DX/2 66 with VLB but sold it sadly when I got a Pentium 166. But I believe for most DOS games the 486 should suffice even without VLB. It's more of a challenge to see what the board is capable of and not to make the fastest 486 (for that there's DX4s out there with PCI boards).

Reply 3 of 8, by jesolo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Siran wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:07:

I even got mine to boot by removing the HDD and booting from FDD. It wouldn't save the HDD parameters and without HDD Auto Detect no IDE HDD would ever work without a good battery. Even though the FDD defaulted to a 5.25 1.2 MB drive in BIOS I could use a 1.44MB 3.5 disc, it just wouldn't read past 1.2MB. Of course I had to do a bit of benchmarking (a bit strange that writing is faster and doesn't drop off like reading after the cache is exhausted)

Yes, what you've described are the symptoms I also experienced - it essentially rendered the PC useless until the battery was replaced.

Siran wrote on 2023-05-24, 23:07:

I once had a 486 DX/2 66 with VLB but sold it sadly when I got a Pentium 166. But I believe for most DOS games the 486 should suffice even without VLB. It's more of a challenge to see what the board is capable of and not to make the fastest 486 (for that there's DX4s out there with PCI boards).

Agreed - there are plenty of DOS games that don't require a VLB .

Reply 4 of 8, by Siran

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
jesolo wrote on 2023-05-24, 21:24:

PS: If have some time, scan in the entire manual and share it with the community that houses the information on the Retroweb (there is a Vogons page as well where you can make contributions).

Done: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/fic-43 … vc-hd#downloads - Rev. B scan by me.

Reply 5 of 8, by jesolo

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Siran wrote on 2023-05-29, 12:48:
jesolo wrote on 2023-05-24, 21:24:

PS: If have some time, scan in the entire manual and share it with the community that houses the information on the Retroweb (there is a Vogons page as well where you can make contributions).

Done: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/fic-43 … vc-hd#downloads - Rev. B scan by me.

Excellent - thank you

Reply 6 of 8, by Siran

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie

Just a quick heads-up if someone has the same board and wants to upgrade. A fellow retro fan swapped the Dallas IC with a Necroware battery-replacement and even upgraded the BIOS EPROM from the installed 1.10K to 1.15k (although the 1.10K should also support a 486 without a problem). After this I was ready to try the upgrade and I'm happy to report I could successfully install a 486DX2-66 on the 4386-VC-HD motherboard, disabling the onboard 386DX-40. I had tried last week but the PC wouldn't post. Did the same procedure once more yesterday - set jumpers, swapped the two resistors (to RN10 and to RN51), replaced the onboard 80MHz quartz oscillator with a 33MHz one, removed the iit 387c FPU that my father had installed 30 years ago and placed the 486 into the socket. Only this time I used more force and I could feel it sliding into place, which I didn't last time. Lo and behold, I was greeted with a glorious post screen

20230804_113111.jpg
Filename
20230804_113111.jpg
File size
1018.12 KiB
Views
551 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

An AMD and Intel CPU together on the same board - could this be love?

20230804_132216.jpg
Filename
20230804_132216.jpg
File size
1.27 MiB
Views
551 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Speedsys made a massive jump from 6.49 to 24.93, cache throughput also increased by 2MByte/s

20230804_114331.jpg
Filename
20230804_114331.jpg
File size
993.02 KiB
Views
551 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Cache performance seems to be influenced by faster latencies - went down from 37.6ns/byte to 22.8ns/byte

20230804_115925.jpg
Filename
20230804_115925.jpg
File size
1.16 MiB
Views
551 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

All in all I'm very pleased with the upgrade, I even tinkered with the LED display on my case to show 33/66Mhz depending on turbo state which was an hour of trial and error thanks to all the jumpers, but I got it to work in the end.

20230804_171818.jpg
Filename
20230804_171818.jpg
File size
269.47 KiB
Views
551 views
File license
Fair use/fair dealing exception

Reply 7 of 8, by rasz_pl

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

Siran do you remember when you got your computer and how much was it? Im wondering where combo boards were price wise compared to 386 and 486 ones.

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 8 of 8, by Siran

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
rasz_pl wrote on 2023-08-05, 17:11:

Siran do you remember when you got your computer and how much was it? Im wondering where combo boards were price wise compared to 386 and 486 ones.

It must have been in 1993, the manual I got with the motherboard is dated December 1992, so it must have been later. I believe it cost around 2.000 Deutsche Mark, so about 1.000 €. I'm not sure if the monitor was included though. I didn't even know (or didn't remember) that the motherboard had the option to upgrade to a 486DX2-66 until I found it some months ago in the attic, so it definitely wasn't part of my decision to buy it back then, I know it was one of the cheaper options at the time, which was one of the reasons we bought the PC. But I've been remembering more and more and my then best friend bought the same PC but later upgraded to a 486DX-33 but kept the case etc. so he must have already upgraded his with a better CPU back then. I didn't really give it much thought until a few days ago. Since I got an entirely new PC somewhere in 1994 (a 486DX2-66 with VLB) and gave the old PC my father I never really thought about it again until I found it in the attic.

Btw - if you're interested in prices, there's tons of old ads, especially for German retailers Vobis and Escom, on the Internet which might give you an idea. I guess it's safe to say that many 386 PCs, especially the ones with an AMD 386DX-40 (the 40Mhz would be a good indicator as Intel never sold a CPU with that speed) from around 1993 might have a combo board with an onboard Am386DX-40 like mine.