Do they work when hooked up directly to the Win98 machine?

JayAlien wrote on 2023-07-19, 21:18:

I have a modern Logitech USB keyboard and mouse (K&M) which I switch between some of my PCs. I have one row of four PCs that con […]
Show full quote

I have a modern Logitech USB keyboard and mouse (K&M) which I switch between some of my PCs. I have one row of four PCs that contain three XP PCs and one Win 98. M is Logitech G502, K is Logitech G810

The K&M work fine on the three XP PCs. I'm having some odd behavior on the Win 98 PC.

On the Win 98 system, the K&M light up when the PC is powered on, and I can use the K to navigate Bios. As the Win 98 boot progresses, the lights go out on the K&M, and Win 98 then tells me I have no M connected. Nor does the K work.

An older keyboard and mouse work fine on this system.

it's as if the motherboard supports the M&K but not Win 98, perhaps some version mismatch. It's inconvenient to keep a separate K&M for one system, is there any way to get these working on the Win 98 system?
Thanks!

I could be dead wrong, wait until someone confirms.

W98 doesn't support USB until drivers are loaded. It has to detect and install drivers to use K&M. BIOS supports end and W98 kicks in.
My bet is to install a PS2 K and have the devices loaded and then you should be okay in the future.
95% to be wrong.

I do believe that some USB give a PS2 signal as device, and thus work because PS2 is supported immediately.
This is where I'm 99% sure I'm wrong 😀

> some USB give a PS2 signal as device

Yes, depending on the controller used - but only when hooked up to a PS/2 port (through one of those passive adapters), not when connected through USB. Also, I've found this to be pretty hit or miss - the same kbd worked on some machines but not on others. YMMV, but personally, I eventually gave up on that idea and just keep a second, PS/2-only kbd around...

Not sure if it can be considered modern anymore but my logitech G15 has worked in every retro pc that has usb ports at least as a normal keyboard. I have had problem sometimes when the keyboard lights are off and does not work right after booting but disconnecting and reconnecting the keyboard in that situation usually fixes that problem.

Thanks for the responses, a couple of clarifications:
The K&M are connected directly to the Win98 PC
Another older K&M works fine connected the exact same way, same 2 USB ports.
The K&M work without issue on three other Win XP PCs (I know, different OS)
I've tried reconnecting once windows is complaining about the lack of mouse, no joy

Nexxen wrote on 2023-07-19, 21:31:

I do believe that some USB give a PS2 signal as device, and thus work because PS2 is supported immediately.
This is where I'm 99% sure I'm wrong 😀

Elszgenza is right if taken literally (about the keyboard not working in PS/2 mode when connected to an actual USB interface) but there's the tangentially related software USB to PS/2 emulation ("USB legacy support" in the bios), which has many implementations of rather varying quality and generally completely terminates when the OS starts using the USB interface directly - and HID devices similarly have a standardized generic mode ("boot protocol", aka how can Macs use bluetooth keyboards in the firmware) as well as a "full" mode that's supposed to be enabled for full features (whatever that means for a plain keyboard), maybe the latter is not appreciated?

And yes, to use USB input devices in 9x you need something already working to click through the hardware installer wizard 😁, but it should appear in the first place...

I'm on my phone, so you'll have to google if you want an explanation, but do you have the "*HCI Handoff" option in the BIOS settings? In that case, what happens if you disable it?

Soooo... If I remember correctly, some USB keyboards and mice will never work in Windows 98 unless somebody develops a driver for them.

I was looking into this quite a while ago and found out, unsurprisingly, that pretty much any newer keyboard or mouse that is programmable or can save different button configurations has a microcontroller built in and thus requires OS and possibly BIOS support to work.

They for sure will never work being converted to PS/2 unless you have an active converter that is specifically made to work with them.

I wasn't that wrong after all 😀

Ah yes, probably counts as a programmable keyboard. I was trying to avoid 3xK&M on my desk, but will have to re-add the older wired K&M back to control the Win 98 box that's in this group.