Tell me about it 😉.

I mean yeah kinda , considering most of this stuff at least where I live used to be thrown out on the side of the road , I had a whole stack of sb16s (ct1700s and ct2200s) that I sold off for next to nothing , someone even threw out a boxed 5.25 copy of police quest 2 , a 486 with VLB slots and an amiga 500 and someone else threw out a Sony Trinitron G420 , and that's just the stuff I got my hands on there must have been piles of other stuff I missed.

Anywho usually I've found if you look on classifieds or are patient on eBay you still can get good deals , even still eBay's more there for impulsive I want it now and cant wait kinda stuff , which I've been guilty of a fair few times.

Luckily I'm at the point where I'm probably going to stop collecting since I've nearly got everything I want , unfortunately one of the last few things ive been working on buying is an amiga 1200 , and uh if you think retro pcs are bad you should look at amigas , buying it in pieces probably wasn't the best idea , but I couldn't be arsed recapping a 1200 motherboard and now I'm paying the price for it , so that an maybe 2 expansion cards for my retro systems , but yeah with the prices creeping up I'm probably going to stick with my 4 retro systems , I sold off a lot of stuff before since I couldn't focus on more than 4 systems and I never used my other stuff , but yeah I get ya ,

you end up in a perpetual state of some retro part needing repair , be it the monitor or a psu going bad maybe a card dies , or caps go bad and it can be pretty irritating juggling systems that are and aren't available till the repairs get done and have a bunch of projects on the backburner.

I really do like the hobby though , if I didn't I wouldn't have put up with all this nonsense and quit years ago.
Still I do question my sanity at times 🤣

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-07-20, 13:59:

if you think retro pcs are bad you should look at amigas

Never owned one but they are intriguing for sure! If a decently priced 500 comes across my way, I probably won't say no... and if I remember correctly there are new PCBs for Amigas so if I ever get my PC collection sorted out that will be the next venture.

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-07-20, 13:59:

Still I do question my sanity at times 🤣

Good to hear I'm not the only one 😁

Nothing that someone is willing to pay or give something for can't be called worthless junk. Value of absolutely everything in this world is defined by what someone is willing to pay or give for it.
It is a hobby as well as anything else and people are always willing to pay for their hobbies.

Baoran wrote on 2023-07-20, 14:25:

It is a hobby as well as anything else and people are always willing to pay for their hobbies.

Yeah, I have always compared it to owning a vintage car, those are seriously expensive, even more so than brand new cars.

I never really paid much for single PC items. The most expensive were the Abit BH6 for which I paid 70 Euro (shipped), another slot 1 board for a similar price and a Voodoo2.
Most of the other stuff was in the 20-40 Euro range. Like AppleSauce says, you can still make good deals if you're patient.
As long as you have fun with it it has a value for you so I wouldn't consider it worthless junk. It's different when the stuff only sits in boxes. I don't care too much for the money I spent but more for the space it occupies.
The most expensive single item was indeed the Amiga 1200 😀

My biggest concern is that the interest and thus value of stuff eventually goes down, as the generations who remember when the now retro gear was new, dies so that it won't keep value, as it is the case with a lot of other collector's items.

Wonder if stamps will lose value as well when nobody who ever used them are left ...

Well, I guess it depends what you are actually interested on. Do you consider yourself a collector of old PC hardware? Or more of a tinkerer, that wants to build, repair, upgrade old technology? Or maybe you just want to get a system up and running to play old games? All of those options are equally valid, but they are quite different. For instance, I do not really have the mindset of a collector, I wouldn't pay premium prices just to have unopened boxes on display at my house. For me the fun comes with actually using the stuff, even if it is for a little while. What I always found really engaging was tinkering with old tech that was once very expensive but is now very cheap and utterly obsolete. Of course, if I have to pay for that stuff as much as it cost when it was new (or more!), it kind of loses the appeal and I wouldn't pay for it even if I have the money.

With the current prices, I don't think I would have ever gotten into the hobby. Currently I have pretty much everything I want (AT cases in good conditions are always welcome though) so I limit my purchases to only very specific stuff and focus on getting builds just right for the proper retro gaming experience. And it helps that I'm not always doing the same thing obsessively (this seems to be a problem for many people here who get burned out very quickly): there are periods where I'm more interested in tinkering, and other times I just want to relax and enjoy an old game, it's a nice balance I think.

That said, there is definitely lots of worthless junk. PCChips, Trident and all the bottom of the barrel stuff from back then was and still is worthless junk, no matter what eBay says about it. They are useful to a retro enthusiast precisely because they're supposed to be cheap and more readily available than the quality stuff. A turd is a turd regardless of the price tag on it.

Not really, because deep down I know that I can resell all this stuff and get my money back (and probably more). I keep changing hobbies every 5-10 years so once I'm done with the retro scene I'll just spend my time getting rid of all that except for the CPU collection that barely takes up any space and never goes bad sitting in a box. I'll let the wife sell that when I'm dead.
I still consider this a cheap hobby compared to some of the others I used to do.

HanSolo wrote on 2023-07-20, 15:57:

I never really paid much for single PC items. The most expensive were the Abit BH6 for which I paid 70 Euro (shipped), another slot 1 board for a similar price and a Voodoo2.

I think 10-20 euros per a card is alright price, since the seller barely does make profit on it if you count it takes an hour to list and ship it (most probably he could be just rather working on real job for that hour for a better pay). 70-100 euros per a computer/mobo is also quite fair still. I'm in the same ballpark spending-wise but still it is around 10x more expensive what it was say, 15 years ago I think (someone correct me if I am wrong). Some cards like GUS are too expensive for me so I cannot justify spending that much. One man's trash is another man's treasure holds quite literally at this hobby.

How much someone is willing to pay depends on how important the hobby is for that person. For me it is just fun to tinker with all that stuff and I know that once I am dead nobody who would end up with all my retro stuff is going to understand them having any value and is probably just going to haul all of it to a recycling center. That is probably how all that stuff is becoming more and more rare and only people who the hobby is that important that they are willing to pay lots of money are going to be able to do this hobby. I was lucky that I had saved parts of all my old pcs except the first pc I ever had that I was able to get started with this hobby easily and also the parts I bought were not too expensive yet.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

essentially worthless junk

Yes definitely, and 99% of what you would want to do with it can be replicated on your main computer in one of many emulators.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

getting my 5th or 6th system that needs restoration

If you want to do something more productive with lasting value learn welding, body work, basic wrenching, buy neglected car from relative and play My Summer Car in the garage instead.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 19:36:

Some cards like GUS are too expensive for me so I cannot justify spending that much

I'd say one thing is important and that has to do with your initial question

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

..do you ever get a feeling that you're paying too much for what is essentially worthless junk?

I never paid 'too much'. Regardless of what the (sold) prices on ebay are, I never pay more than the item is worth to me. This may be a higher price if I really want/need something but I also bought stuff just to have it in the collection for 'just in case I might need it' or 'because why not' if the price was so low that I did not care for the amount of money. But I never bought something when it felt expensive.

About the GUS: I'm really into Demos so a GUS is a must-have for me and I would probably buy one even today. If I were only into games I would never spent that money.
So if you think the GUS is too expensive then simply move on and have fun with other stuff. Don't pay 'too much' because that is what increases the prices. (Oh, and then there is the PicoGUS project 😀 )

Theres some toxic collecting and media influencing revolving around the retro sceene. I wouldnt say its intentionaly toxic, becasue I dont think that everyone making a video is becasue they want to raise the prices and drive scarecity. It just happens to have that cause and effect.

However there are people activly collecting in the community just becasue something is scarce and the price rising just makes their items they collected more valuable.

Thankfully these groups are a minority of the retro community but they made things toxic for rest of the community and and if it wasnt for it being such a great community they would of all but ruined it by now.

I feel really sorry for anyone just trying to get into retro hardware now. Good deals are far and few inbetween, and the more desirable stuff is either stupidly priced or theres 20 other people trying to get the same listing becasue they watched a video that said it was good, and theres a collector willing to pay 10 times what its worth and there doesn't seem to be any end in site to this.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

... do you ever get a feeling that you're paying too much for what is essentially worthless junk?

As Baoran rightly pointed out, value of absolutely everything in this world is defined by what someone is willing to pay or give for it. So this junk is not worthless but useless from a practical point of view. Is there something wrong in buying things that have no practical use? Not at all, people do that all the time.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

...sometimes I have this nagging feeling now that I am getting my 5th or 6th system that needs restoration, that maybe I have gone overboard already. Do you know this feel or should I just stop worrying and learn to love the retro?

As long as you can afford your hobby and it doesn't harm more important parts of your life, I see no problem at all.

And regarding "retro", I personally don't see old computers as something retro. For me those are 20th century's technological miracles. Just think about how complicated they are. Even the primitive ones are a result of years and years of hard work of a huge number of scientists and engineers. Of course I won't use old computers in my everyday life, but that won't stop me from admiring these wonderful devices and enjoying tinkering with them.

And when one day I'll lose my interest in them I'll just simply move on and continue to enjoy my life.

The bs reasoning that collectors somehow ruin a hobby come up on here like every week. They're just mad that people are not handing out these for free or peanuts now so the good times of the 2000s are over. Those weren't "deals", people just wanted to get others to free up their basement from stuff that was a waste of space for them, without the hassle of throwing everything in the trash. Some people picked up on that, built a hobby around it and it was The Golden Age for them. Then as more people joined they got severe competition. That's when these people started screaming bloody hell because the thing they got free before suddenly got a price tag.
The very same thing happens in every hobby. That pos old car is worthless and dangerous so it's going to the junkyard. But someone's dad's uncle had that car growing up so now it's a treasure that needs parts. Too bad everyone else already trashed their cars so there are almost no spares available and the ones that are still around got to... cOllEcToRs!!! Devils. Those devils aren't even willing to sell their parts for peanuts! Superdevil born. Origin story.
Same with coin collecting. Someone got there first, supply got low, things got expensive. That 15th century golden piece went for $25000??? How dare you!!
Every.Single.Hobby.
Don't even get me started on money. Someone else has more disposable cash so now he's the ultradevil for buying something he'd like to possess? Like it's his fault he has access to better opportunities or lives in a country with more supply. Some of you people don't even realize just how cheap these things are on the other side of this globe, the things you buy for $100 they still get for $10 or free. The World isn't just a single country on Earth, you know.
I know, it sucks that you need to blow your monthly budget on something but what do you expect? Want The Golden Age back when people just handed you stuff? It's gone, friend. Not really, it just switched to more recent stuff nobody wants, like 200x era and newer. Some guy in 2060 is going to be pissed that the Celeron 336 they had as a kid now costs $50! DAM collectors! And Youtube+++, because someone never even invested in this whole thing now decided to start hoarding Celeron 336 processors just because old man Linus told him about it. A likely occurance. Or just the fact that other people joined the competition and you don't get free stuff anymore? The circle is closed.
Every week this topic.

double post. see further down.

doublebuffer wrote on 2023-07-20, 12:59:

I'm new to this hobby and this is kinda harshly put but do you ever get a feeling that you're paying too much for what is essentially worthless junk?

i think the prices are often too high so i only buy very cheap things but i wouldn't call it junk. even the low end things are not junk, i find it strange to call working electronics junk or trash even when and they're very cheap and low end in specs

however i spend most software using time (esp games) on newer machines and of them almost all around early 2010s, often with aid of dosbox, mods to make things work on newer systems, gog and whatever

so even the cheap stuff i do get is probably not actually "worth it" in a utilitarian sense

Capcholo wrote on 2023-07-21, 07:00:

The bs reasoning that collectors somehow ruin a hobby come up on here like every week.

things do go through a curve wherein they are abundant but out of date, hence cheap, and then 20+ years later the remaining items are 'vintage', nostalgic and relatively rare, hence more expensive. some people are willing to spend a lot, some of them are speculators and sometimes its a temporary fad due to social media - but so be it, the price isn't someone's "fault"

H3nrik V! wrote on 2023-07-20, 16:49:

My biggest concern is that the interest and thus value of stuff eventually goes down, as the generations who remember when the now retro gear was new, dies so that it won't keep value, as it is the case with a lot of other collector's items.

Wonder if stamps will lose value as well when nobody who ever used them are left ...

that's a good point, eventually the nostalgia value passes and things just become of historic value, that might be enough to hold value over the longer term though - various everyday items 70+ years ago can still get collector prices

a couple things are in play here. first, i don't think prices are inherently inflated because, just as with stocks or anything else of value, price discovery is the main driver of market forces. what was worth $1 today can be worth 10x tomorrow and then half that the day after. in my mind the question to ask is who is responsible for the current market conditions? outside of normal attrition and scarcity that comes with the passage of time i put the blame squarely on environmentalists and the recycling push that is a worthwhile endeavor for humanity, but has largely turned out to be a scam. the business model of reclaiming gold from electronics, unsubsidized by governments, is dubious at best so i discount that entirely. i can only speculate, but i would think scarcity has been artificially accelerated by this sham of regulation by decades.

second, i built my first retro pc over a decade and a half ago when it wasn't considered cool by and large (or nostalgia just doesn't kick in as early for most people). if enough people think something is cool, that is the very definition of uncool. i am not much interested by 386/486 or early pentium builds anymore and have now concentrated on the athlon era--pretty much the last things with an isa slot that can be slowed down smoothly to a 486; however, even this unloved era is coming under pressure now. i also used to collect lp's, but the popularity driving all these new reissues that foul up the marketplace has seriously soured me on the whole hobby. the masses want to have the best possible sound fidelity that only comes from a brand new remaster and pressing that isn't 50yrs old. the discovery ritual and imperfections of the medium was the whole point for me.