The Ars Technica article is a good read. They mention how Vogons.org was a helpful resource.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/going … -like-its-1981/

Me? I like to have a heavy gage rolled steal case & a 5.25 full height drive when working with an 8088, so the Book 8088 is not that interesting to me. Looks flimsy. I can't image that the power connector or the display is durable enough to last for more than a couple years.

Hi there. I think the Book 8088 is certainly cute and useful.
Having Norton Commander always in your pocket is neat.
It also has that Terminator II type of feeling attached to it. That Atari Portfolio used as a prop had an 808x like CPU, as well.

On the other hand, there are a few things I don't like so much.
I comes with an 8088, rather than a V20 processor.

It does CGA, but merely the stereotypical one (cyan/magenta etc).
Neither Composite CGA, nor a 400 line mode are available (Olivetti type; useful for some games and badly needed running GEM/Windows).

That's sad, because the little colour TFT has enough fidelity to either display 400 lines
(by using a custom digital CGA interface, no interlacing/progressive scan issues like with a CRT)
or enough colours (4096 and up) to act as a regulator LCD TV screen for Composite video (for Composite CGA).

Edit: I'm not an owner. These are just my thoughts. 😅

In my mind Tandy graphics and sound made the most sense on a rig like this since there is minimal additional logic required and then you have both CGA and 16 color support.

On the other hand, there are a few things I don't like so much.
I comes with an 8088, rather than a V20 processor.

It looks like it is socketed, and it is possible to put a V20 (10mhz seems to be the fastest possible) but people mention that the 4.77mhz mode is then inaccurate.

Would anyone consider writing Sergey's Book 8088 / V20 BIOS to ROM for some ££s?
I don't really have the £100 or so to spend on kit to just write one chip.

(BIOS bin file on GitHub) https://github.com/skiselev/8088_bios

Also are there any compatibility issues being experienced with the OPL2 board? I was wondering if adding SOUND.COM from the AdLib would help.

Another question - what are people doing about FDD images? Does anyone know if a USB FDD drive would work on the CH375 interface?

I've seen some reliability issues associated with them. Seems the speakers can go bad and somehow brick the system until they're removed. Also heard of someone who had theirs die and the speakers were not at fault though.
Those issues aside, I think it's neat but I wish they'd make a bigger one with a nice old-style laptop keyboard and a bigger (but still low-res) LCD. If they make it that size there's a chance they could even squeeze an ISA slot in there for smaller cards I'd imagine, that would be neat.

The aspect ratio on the display is wrong? Looks like it displays maybe 16:10? https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/202 … dos-book_04.jpg .

No pass from me, but then again, I have been pixel peeping PC aspect ratios for the past year and a half or so..

betamax80 wrote on 2023-07-25, 23:53:

Has anyone got one, and if so are you enjoying it? Is this going to be a fun machine that we can talk about for many years, with fun 8-bit ISA card developments? Or is it going to disappear?

I don't own one so this is nothing more than my opinion without facts to back it up: being a one man project I expect reliability issues, malfunctions and failures. It's a nice project, I'm happy that it exists and people can play with it, but I wouldn't count on it as a future-proof XT.

rmay635703 wrote on 2023-07-26, 18:28:

In my mind Tandy graphics and sound made the most sense on a rig like this since there is minimal additional logic required and then you have both CGA and 16 color support.

Indeed. PCjr and Tandy 1000 compatibility would have mad so much sense on a retro device like this! 4-color CGA was always so limiting, even back in the day. Especially since the Book 8088 apparently doesn't support composite output that would allow 16-color CGA with some games.

Even if they end up implementing PCjr and Tandy 1000 compatibility in a later revision of this product, having optional OPL3 in addition to built-in 3-voice PCJr/Tandy sound compatibility would still be useful.

Indeed. PCjr and Tandy 1000 compatibility would have mad so much sense on a retro device like this! 4-color CGA was always so limiting, even back in the day. Especially since the Book 8088 apparently doesn't support composite output that would allow 16-color CGA with some games.

I do second that, but I don't know if the chips are obtainable etc - I feel like there is a reason the creator went with CGA and OPL2. I completely see how something that "fakes tandy mode" would be awesome.

It's CGA because of the hype around the original PC/XT, and that the IBM schematics are readily available. It's pretty clear from the individual who made it, that is what he wanted to do, recreate something that is basically an XT hardware wise. OPL2 support is much the same way -- hype and plenty of clone designs to base off of.

clb wrote on 2023-07-28, 07:01:

The aspect ratio on the display is wrong? Looks like it displays maybe 16:10? https://liliputing.com/wp-content/uploads/202 … dos-book_04.jpg .

No pass from me, but then again, I have been pixel peeping PC aspect ratios for the past year and a half or so..

Yes, that's right! Err, I mean wrong. The aspect ratio, I mean. You were right it was wrong! 🙂

Though, that also happened with real 8088/V20 notebooks in the 80s.
Many had low-end models CGA graphics and a passive LC screen, with 200 lines.
These looked even more rectangular than this one.

The better models used line-doubling and had 400 lines. Some could even use 640x400 resolution.
Thanks to the Olivetti graphics mode, which is a compatible extension to plain CGA.

Example of such DOS laptops with CGA graphics :

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poqet_PC

Source: https://wiki.preterhuman.net/Tandy_1100_FD

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_T1100

the3dfxdude wrote on 2023-07-29, 01:48:

It's CGA because of the hype around the original PC/XT, and that the IBM schematics are readily available. It's pretty clear from the individual who made it, that is what he wanted to do, recreate something that is basically an XT hardware wise. OPL2 support is much the same way -- hype and plenty of clone designs to base off of.

+1

The problem is, that it's a big failure to many people ('You had one job' meme).

It's as if someone goes for an 100% authentic all-IBM setup, but then uses a cheap black/silver 16:9 TFT as a monitor.

That's such a provocation. Because it ruins the otherwise nice setup.
In fact, even an old 1950s NTSC TV set sitting atop a PC 5150/5160 chassis would have been more appropriate.
That may sound like an exaggeration, but it sadly isn't. A vintage TV is 4:3 and compatible with NTSC timings of a CGA card.
Via RF modulator, it would look very nice, actually. Like an NES hooked up to grandma's TV in living room way back in the 80s.

betamax80 wrote on 2023-07-29, 00:14:

Indeed. PCjr and Tandy 1000 compatibility would have mad so much sense on a retro device like this! 4-color CGA was always so limiting, even back in the day. Especially since the Book 8088 apparently doesn't support composite output that would allow 16-color CGA with some games.

I do second that, but I don't know if the chips are obtainable etc - I feel like there is a reason the creator went with CGA and OPL2. I completely see how something that "fakes tandy mode" would be awesome.

The original AdLib was easy to build and had a simple bus interface.
And many games supported it, for many years.
Tandy 3-Voice would have been even more authentic for early-mid XT era, but game support quickly dropped in the late 80s.
By comparison, AdLib had an universal cult-status and higher audio quality.

The EGA/CGA releases of sophisticated point&click games like Rise of the Dragon supported AdLib, but not Tandy anymore.
Same goes for Legend games etc. They still could support CGA as a fall-back, but not Tandy 3-Voice.

That's why I'm a bit disappointed about the "digital CGA" approach.
A blurry little composite TV panel and a composite circuit (colour burst circuit) would have been definitely possible.

There are microcontrollers like Arduino which can generate at least a monochrome "composite" video signal purely in software.
Such an approach would have been nice here. On a small sceeen, artifact colours wouldn't look that bad, even if resolution was low.

Edit: Maybe it's also a generation thing, not sure. These days, "makers" buy their stuff from AdaFruit, AliExpresss etc.
The LCD screens are the typical digital types meant for use with Raspberry Pi, Arduino, ESP32 etc.
Back in the 2000s/2010s, retro gamers upgraded/fixed their Sega Game Gears by replacint their CCFL-backlith LC displays by modern panels or LED backlight.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRBP7DAK2bM

Never understanded the aspect ratio "problem" in old computers. If i watch a live action movie, I care. If i play a DOS game, I really just do not care. Hey, I can wach The Simpsons old episodes in wide screen.

Don't own one and wouldn't buy one ... and not because of a price.

At first I was very enthusiastic about this product. HP 95LX with a color display, good modern keyboard and ISA expansion module? Shut up and take my money!

But after taking a closer look it turned out to be a classic example of a good intention with a poor execution: wrong display aspect ratio, nonsense keyboard, cheap plastic, cheap LCD, no serial / parallel ports, poor battery, no mic in, only 3 ISA slots, no touchpad, no external mouse / keyboard ports, no normal USB port, no VGA out, stolen BIOS, no Turbo button, no IR port, no PCMCIA slot (only CF), etc.

So, I really doubt we are going to talk about this made on a knee project for many years. If it was produced in 1994, it could certainly become a classic PC despite being poorly engineered, but today with modern technological capabilities it will be remembered, if at all, as just another cheap "made in China" toy.

I came across an unloved Tandy 1100FD sat on top of a locker while at college in 1997-98. I didn't realise at a time what a rare beast it was in the UK. Did the Tandy 1000 line ever get sold in the UK? I always remember the shops being small chaotic and seemingly full of small components.

Jo22 wrote on 2023-07-29, 03:47:

clb wrote on 2023-07-28, 07:01:

The problem is, that it's a big failure to many people ('You had one job' meme). […]
Show full quote

The problem is, that it's a big failure to many people ('You had one job' meme).

It's as if someone goes for an 100% authentic all-IBM setup, but then uses a cheap black/silver 16:9 TFT as a monitor.

That's such a provocation. Because it ruins the otherwise nice setup.
In fact, even an old 1950s NTSC TV set sitting atop a PC 5150/5160 chassis would have been more appropriate.
That may sound like an exaggeration, but it sadly isn't. A vintage TV is 4:3 and compatible with NTSC timings of a CGA card.
Via RF modulator, it would look very nice, actually. Like an NES hooked up to grandma's TV in living room way back in the 80s.

betamax80 wrote on 2023-07-29, 00:14:

I do second that, but I don't know if the chips are obtainable etc - I feel like there is a reason the creator went with CGA and OPL2. I completely see how something that "fakes tandy mode" would be awesome.

The original AdLib was easy to build and had a simple bus interface.
And many games supported it, for many years.
Tandy 3-Voice would have been even more authentic for early-mid XT era, but game support quickly dropped in the late 80s.
By comparison, AdLib had an universal cult-status and higher audio quality.

The EGA/CGA releases of sophisticated point&click games like Rise of the Dragon supported AdLib, but not Tandy anymore.
Same goes for Legend games etc. They still could support CGA as a fall-back, but not Tandy 3-Voice.

That's why I'm a bit disappointed about the "digital CGA" approach.
A blurry little composite TV panel and a composite circuit (colour burst circuit) would have been definitely possible.

I agree here, knowing about things like the "Plantronics mode" from 8Bit Guy, and as you say the 640x400 modes achieved by many systems, considering the developer did a lot of the CGA signalling with an FPGA this seems like a really missed opportunity when the LCD display would clearly cope. I think colour was a good shout, I'm not sure if Hercules would have satisfied the market.

I also would love to see if some support boards get created for this, such as a handy I/O board that incorporates all the must haves (I'm no expert and I don't know if LAN or PS/2 ports would work on such a card?)

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2023-07-29, 06:36:

Don't own one and wouldn't buy one ... and not because of a price. […]
Show full quote

Don't own one and wouldn't buy one ... and not because of a price.

At first I was very enthusiastic about this product. HP 95LX with a color display, good modern keyboard and ISA expansion module? Shut up and take my money!

But after taking a closer look it turned out to be a classic example of a good intention with a poor execution: wrong display aspect ratio, nonsense keyboard, cheap plastic, cheap LCD, no serial / parallel ports, poor battery, no mic in, only 3 ISA slots, no touchpad, no external mouse / keyboard ports, no normal USB port, no VGA out, stolen BIOS, no Turbo button, no IR port, no PCMCIA slot (only CF), etc.

So, I really doubt we are going to talk about this made on a knee project for many years. If it was produced in 1994, it could certainly become a classic PC despite being poorly engineered, but today with modern technological capabilities it will be remembered, if at all, as just another cheap "made in China" toy.

I agree with you on several things there I think the lack of a couple of exposed serial ports at least is a shame. Regarding the pointing device there was that little MS trackball thing that could be pressed into service. I feel like IR on an 8088 would be asking a lot? The keyboard I can forgive due to availability issues but I do wonder if there was a closer match than what was used.

But on the other hand, look at what someone has designed and done individually - there is a lot more authenticity in the parts selected than we've seen a lot of lately. Even though it's crappy CGA is is using the actual Motorola 6845 timing generator, it's using real CPU's and has FPU support. That's a real OPL2 in that sound board (and I wonder is that another ISA connection that could be repurposed?

betamax80 wrote on 2023-07-29, 19:16:

...
But on the other hand, look at what someone has designed and done individually - there is a lot more authenticity in the parts selected than we've seen a lot of lately. Even though it's crappy CGA is is using the actual Motorola 6845 timing generator, it's using real CPU's and has FPU support. That's a real OPL2 in that sound board (and I wonder is that another ISA connection that could be repurposed?

I have nothing against individual projects, but when someone puts his individual project for sale and asks quite a high price, it is already a commercial product and for my money I want a product of a decent quality.

ThinkpadIL wrote on 2023-07-29, 19:39:

betamax80 wrote on 2023-07-29, 19:16:

...
But on the other hand, look at what someone has designed and done individually - there is a lot more authenticity in the parts selected than we've seen a lot of lately. Even though it's crappy CGA is is using the actual Motorola 6845 timing generator, it's using real CPU's and has FPU support. That's a real OPL2 in that sound board (and I wonder is that another ISA connection that could be repurposed?

I have nothing against individual projects, but when someone puts his individual project for sale and asks quite a high price, it is already a commercial product and for my money I want a product of a decent quality.

Personally, I acknowledge the work of the individual who designed this little 8088 PC.
On the other hand, it makes me sad that it messed up so close to the finish line.
Because, it was near perfect.

a) If it had a 400 lime mode, it would be usable for Windows 3.x, GEM or PC GEOS. Or playing around with QBasic etc (supports 640x400 mode).
b) If it had Composite CGA or Tandy, classic 1980s games would look as intended.

But in the current state, it provides the same experience I had in the 90s with early games on a 286 with on-board VGA.
- Default 4 colour CGA palette (fixed)
- Pixelated graphics (no scan lines or blur, at least)

In essence, it gives all the cons, without the pros.
CGA, games wise, didn't look so nice on a VGA monitor back then (stock, without separate CGA emulation mode via an VGA card's mode utility, at least).

The scan-doubled nature of VGA made the limitations much more noticeable to me.
Sure, the readability was nice. CGA text and CO40 mode in general was very crisp.

Edit: It's technically possible to disable the line doubling on VGA.
There's even an utility for it: Some sofware to do fake EGA scanlines?
Unfortunately, others and me didn't know about it back then. CGA was considered a relic by the time, also.

That's why an old Pocket PC running Windows CE and PocketDOS may give a similar or a better experience.