VOGONS


Reply 41 of 57, by analog_programmer

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-10-06, 13:32:

Windsor. Winter is coming...

Thunberg will be mad at me (and you) roaring that we're all gonna die from "the global warming" 😁

Now seriously, I still can not understand why newer Brisbane is not better than Windsor even its energy consumption is significantly lower, leaving aside the twice smaller cache size (which is supposedly compensated by a slightly higher frequency).

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Reply 42 of 57, by The Serpent Rider

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My guess is that AMD was under pressure to rush the 65nm lithography to compete with Intel. So silicon quality was overall mediocre. That also led to issues with first Phenom CPUs, which had the infamous TLB bug.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 43 of 57, by analog_programmer

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The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-10-06, 14:07:

My guess is that AMD was under pressure to rush the 65nm lithography to compete with Intel. So silicon quality was overall mediocre. That also led to issues with first Phenom CPUs, which had the infamous TLB bug.

Yeah, back in the days after I made mistake and "upgraded" from Windsor F3 to Brisbane G2 (Abit KN9 mobo left from this system) I totally skipped first gen K10 Phenoms and later changed entire system - AM2+ mobo (Asus with DDR2 which kinda s**ks) with Phenom II X2 (later upgraded to Phenom II X6) which I still use today and this is my last desktop system.

Reading this article I realize the TLB bug is not much related to silicon quality, but rather to some core design mistake.

Now I discovered that there were also K8 Opterons for socket AM2 (Santa Ana 90 nm core), I thought they were only for socket F. But despite they're operating at lower voltage than Windsor they seems to run even hotter for the same CPU frequency: Opteron 1220 Santa Ana (90 nm) OSA1220IAA6CZ (F3) 2800 (14x200) MHz- 103 W vs Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor (90 nm) ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3) 2800 (14x200) MHz - 89 W. I don't see any reasonable explaination for this except that memory controller for Opteron is integrated into the CPU.

If the memory calculator given by stef80 work correctly, there're problems not only with non-integer CPU multipliers, but also with odd ones at standard HTT 200 MHz resulting in lowered DDR2 frequencies. But odd multipliers are good for o'c-ing - 13x246 MHz seems fine for 3.2 GHz o'c and gives exactly 800 MHz for the RAM using DDR2-667 divider.

I purchased Windsor ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3). Case closed. Many thanks to all who participated in the discussion!

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 45 of 57, by analog_programmer

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nd22 wrote on 2023-10-08, 15:48:

Show us some picture with the assembled system so we can rejoice again seeing an Abit board at work!

No problems, I'll make some pictures when the system is complete. In addition to Abit KN9 mobo I've Palit GeForce GTX 560 Ti Twin Light Turbo videocard (no other spare PCI-E video), some FSP/Fortron 350W PSU (I hope it will provide enough power), and I'll borrow two 2GB OCZ DDR2-1000 from my AM2+ Phenom II X6 desktop system (maybe later I'll buy some descent DDR2-800). The only missing parts for now are the CPU (purchased from the famous chinese online market, awaiting shipment...) and cooler for it (I'm in process of searching for suitable cheap box AM2(+)/3(+) cooler).

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 46 of 57, by analog_programmer

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I had some feeling that this chinese seller actually sells something different than Windsor ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3) and, yes... After all the waiting I received one well packed f**kin' Brisbane ADO5600IAA5DO (G2) sh*tty CPU instead of Windsor ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3).

The only good thing is that this cr*p came with free shipping and it isn't more expensive than the same cr*p from the local sellers ads. Opened dispute for the half of the price to be refunded, just because this chinese scammer deserves it.

I'm mad. I even don't have a will to test it now if it works at all... Maybe tomorrow...

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from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 47 of 57, by pentiumspeed

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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-03, 18:19:

I had some feeling that this chinese seller actually sells something different than Windsor ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3) and, yes... After all the waiting I received one well packed f**kin' Brisbane ADO5600IAA5DO (G2) sh*tty CPU instead of Windsor ADA5600IAA6CZ (F3).

The only good thing is that this cr*p came with free shipping and it isn't more expensive than the same cr*p from the local sellers ads. Opened dispute for the half of the price to be refunded, just because this chinese scammer deserves it.

I'm mad. I even don't have a will to test it now if it works at all... Maybe tomorrow...

That was reason I had to include disclaimer in the message box with each purchase to chinese seller. I had many times got substitutes even on fans.

Recently, I had to decline chinese seller for 12 dollar LGA 3647 bronze just to get the IHS lid. They said don't have and offered me alteratives *at higher price*. Again same thing with NVME SSD heatsink of *specific* especially spring clamps design I preferred with copper plate in the kit, they didn't have any.

I ended up buying copper plates with silicone rubber bands which were silly solution but that was only option available for NVME SSD. I have severe height limitations especially in micro, mini or tiny computers. For example HP 800 G3 mini.

Cheers,

Great Northern aka Canada.

Reply 49 of 57, by analog_programmer

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pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-11-03, 22:48:
That was reason I had to include disclaimer in the message box with each purchase to chinese seller. I had many times got subs […]
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That was reason I had to include disclaimer in the message box with each purchase to chinese seller. I had many times got substitutes even on fans.

Recently, I had to decline chinese seller for 12 dollar LGA 3647 bronze just to get the IHS lid. They said don't have and offered me alteratives *at higher price*. Again same thing with NVME SSD heatsink of *specific* especially spring clamps design I preferred with copper plate in the kit, they didn't have any.

I ended up buying copper plates with silicone rubber bands which were silly solution but that was only option available for NVME SSD. I have severe height limitations especially in micro, mini or tiny computers. For example HP 800 G3 mini.

Cheers,

When I have doubts, I always make a brief chat with the seller to clarify what exactly he's selling and what I want to buy before I make the purchase. In this case the chat now serves as proof that I wanted and payed for different model than sent CPU (also different from the one in seller's ad for ADA5600IAA6CZ).

My suspicions (after all the chat reassurances that the seller's selling exactly what I was looking for) started after the seller didn't fulfill the order within a day. He delayed it by about five days and when I asked in the chat again what's going on ('cause the time for confirmation for the purchase from the seller was running out) and I got a reply "I'm arranging it". Unfortunately my suspicions were justified.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-04, 03:08:

Could be worse. Imagine getting AM2 instead of 939...

You mean at least it's s.AM2 CPU (Brisbane) and not s.939 (Manchester or Toledo). Or at least I got CPU instead of something else 😁

It has a few slightly bent pins. I hope it's not fried-out...

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 50 of 57, by shevalier

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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-03, 18:19:

I had some feeling that this chinese seller actually sells something different than

offtop/
God, is anyone else surprised?
My colleague recently bought a 2TB SSD.
No, well, a normal cheap 120GB SSD, after you return the factory firmware from the manufacturer of the controller.

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Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 51 of 57, by analog_programmer

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Someone here wrote that these Brisbane core CPUs are with thermalpaste under the IHS instead of low-temperature solderpaste. Should I "delid" this CPU (if it works) to put some fresh thermalpaste under its IHS or this intervention will not worth such an effort?

And what about older PIII Tualatins or "Tualerons"?

shevalier wrote on 2023-11-04, 06:47:
offtop/ God, is anyone else surprised? My colleague recently bought a 2TB SSD. No, well, a normal cheap 120GB SSD, after you ret […]
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offtop/
God, is anyone else surprised?
My colleague recently bought a 2TB SSD.
No, well, a normal cheap 120GB SSD, after you return the factory firmware from the manufacturer of the controller.

A fraud with SSD or flash-drive volume can be catched after test of the device, but the seller with the "wrong" processor is more brazen, because he sends something that you immediately catch with the "naked eye" without even bothering to test it. But whether the deception is obvious or better disguised, either way you end up unpleasantly surprised.

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 52 of 57, by shevalier

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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-11-04, 08:29:

Someone here wrote that these Brisbane core CPUs are with thermalpaste under the IHS instead of low-temperature solderpaste. Should I "delid" this CPU (if it works) to put some fresh thermalpaste under its IHS or this intervention will not worth such an effort?

I'd say it's worth it. I came across a much colder A64 S754 with a broken cache.
Athlon 64 3000+ s754. Incorrect BIOS initialization or broken L2 cache?
I think this was due to spot overheating from the previous owner.

Aopen MX3S, PIII-S Tualatin 1133, Radeon 9800Pro@XT BIOS, Diamond monster sound MX300
JetWay K8T8AS, Athlon DH-E6 3000+, Radeon HD2600Pro AGP, Audigy 2 Value

Reply 53 of 57, by The Serpent Rider

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You mean at least it's s.AM2 CPU (Brisbane) and not s.939 (Manchester or Toledo).

The opposite actually. Dual-cores on 939 are noticeably more pricy, due to obscurity. So getting AM2 instead is a big oof.

And what about older PIII Tualatins or "Tualerons"?

Yep, also paste, but Tualatins have very low thermal package to bother with delidding.

I must be some kind of standard: the anonymous gangbanger of the 21st century.

Reply 54 of 57, by analog_programmer

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shevalier wrote on 2023-11-04, 08:38:

I'd say it's worth it. I came across a much colder A64 S754 with a broken cache.
Athlon 64 3000+ s754. Incorrect BIOS initialization or broken L2 cache?
I think this was due to spot overheating from the previous owner.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-04, 13:21:

Yep, also paste, but Tualatins have very low thermal package to bother with delidding.

Thank you both for this info. So I may try to "delid" this unwanted Brisbane (I don't care if it dies), but will not touch my old PIII Tualatins.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2023-11-04, 13:21:

The opposite actually. Dual-cores on 939 are noticeably more pricy, due to obscurity. So getting AM2 instead is a big oof.

Back in time I skipped s.754 and s.939 platforms going from s.A (some Athlon XP Barton) to s.AM2 (don't remember which Athlon 64 X2 Windsor), so I don't own any s.939 motherboards or CPUs. Maybe these s.939 processors are more valuable, but they're not of use for me, as I'm not CPU collector.

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 55 of 57, by nd22

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You could use the Brisbane to assemble the system and test it! Unfortunately the problem with Chinese sellers is always the same: advertise one thing, send another! It happened to me also when I got instead of low latency DDR2 Corsair RAM some no name brand with CAS6.

Reply 56 of 57, by analog_programmer

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Yeah, I'll assemble the AM2 system with this damned Brisbane Athlon 64 X2 5600+, but first I have to disassemble my dailydriver AM2+ Phenom II desktop system to borrow some DDR2 sticks and the CPU cooler (still missing those) and unfortunately last weekend didn't found time for this.

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"

Reply 57 of 57, by analog_programmer

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As I promised, here are some pictures with the Ahtlon 64 X2 AM2 system running:

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First boot after so many years of retirement:

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PB070078.JPG
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PB070080.JPG
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Damned Brisbane overclocked at stock voltage to 3.3 GHz just to try out if it will boot.

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I'm Ok with this Brisbane core CPU as it can be o'c-ed and its final cost for me now is only $2.94 (with free shipping) after $3 refund for not sending me the right Windsor core CPU.

Still there's one problem with the KN9 board - it doesn't detect any SSD drive. As far as I remember for the IDE/ATA drives the I/O controller is on separate chip (ATA-drives work just fine), but I don't know where is the controller for SATA drives. Is it integrated into nForce4 chipset or is it in another chip?

from СМ630 to Ryzen gen. 3
engineer's five pennies: this world goes south since everything's run by financiers and economists
this isn't voice chat, yet some people, overusing online communications, "talk" and "hear voices"