there is also BlueSCSI v2, same as zulu. Hard to figure out who is leading and who is just a fork.

If you want a solid state solution, I'd recommend BlueSCSI. IMHO SCSI2SD is too expensive and doesn't justify the price difference vs. other solid-state solutions, especially if you need to add storage to multiple machines.

Here are some performance benchmarks of BlueSCSI vs. regular drives (on Mac computers, but it should give you an idea of what to expect).

If you want to use 68-pin (or wide 80-pin) drives, keep in mind you'll need an adapter with active high byte termination to get them working. As for >8GB support, it usually depends on the BIOS (not really familiar with your DTC card, but some older Adaptec controllers can be patched to support larger drives -- there's a thread on this forum about that).

If you're going to use DOS, any of these solutions should be fine. However if you're installing an OS which does a lot of virtual memory thrashing (such as Windows) I'd prefer a regular drive since SD cards can wear out considerably faster.

TheMobRules wrote on 2023-10-08, 20:38:

If you want a solid state solution, I'd recommend BlueSCSI. IMHO SCSI2SD is too expensive and doesn't justify the price differen […]
Show full quote

If you want a solid state solution, I'd recommend BlueSCSI. IMHO SCSI2SD is too expensive and doesn't justify the price difference vs. other solid-state solutions, especially if you need to add storage to multiple machines.

Here are some performance benchmarks of BlueSCSI vs. regular drives (on Mac computers, but it should give you an idea of what to expect).

If you want to use 68-pin (or wide 80-pin) drives, keep in mind you'll need an adapter with active high byte termination to get them working. As for >8GB support, it usually depends on the BIOS (not really familiar with your DTC card, but some older Adaptec controllers can be patched to support larger drives -- there's a thread on this forum about that).

If you're going to use DOS, any of these solutions should be fine. However if you're installing an OS which does a lot of virtual memory thrashing (such as Windows) I'd prefer a regular drive since SD cards can wear out considerably faster.

I haven't ever noticed to have any problem with wide devices on a narrow adapter even without termination of the high bytes.
You can use a 4.3 GB wide drive with a narrow (male) to wide (male) adapter. You also may try a SCA adapter that includes both narrow and wide connector.

SCSI2SD needs at least version 6 to have 9-10 MB/s data rate.
Too bad SCSI2SD or ZuluSCSI neither support wide SCSI nor Ultra SCSI or even LVD.
There are SCSI-to-IDE adapters from ACard too, but I guess they are way too expensive.

Blue SCSI looks interesting, thanks for the tip: https://bluescsi.com/v2

BlueSCSI's mission is to provide a low cost, open hardware and software SCSI solution for retro computer enthusiasts to breathe life back into their vintage computers. BlueSCSI's build is as simple and friendly as it gets, catering to novices and experts alike. We started three years ago with a few enhancements to ArdSCSIno and there are now several variations using different hardware.
* BlueSCSI v2 is based on the Raspberry Pi Pico microcontroller and a fork of ZuluSCSI's SCSI2SD code
* It is open source, open hardware, and open design.
* It is fast, pushing 10MB/sec.

Here's some additional discovery - Looks like SCSI2SD has given way to ZuluSCSI --https://www.scsi2sd.com/index.php?title=SCSI2SD

1 September 2022 - Due to ongoing global semiconductor component shortages, we're unable to produce more SCSI2SD V5 and V6 boards at this time. As a result of these shortages, Rabbit Hole Computing has developed an alternative SCSI emulation product, ZuluSCSI. Check out ZuluSCSI instead. It's SCSI command handling code is inherited from SCSI2SD V6, and it performs significantly better than SCSI2SD V5 in nearly all benchmarks. ZuluSCSI is a great alternative to SCSI2SD, and available for purchase today from Rabbit Hole Computing

Looks like there is also a CF2SCSI but I can't find any for sale: https://cf2scsi.com/

Board size: 2.5” Form factor – 2.8”x3.9”.
Compact Flash: Standard 3M header for Type 1 & 2 cards.
CF Capacities Supported: ~ up to 256GB (MLC) for removable drive and non mission critical applications and up to 64GB (SLC) for fixed disk heavy read/write mission critical applications.
Power: 5 Volts only @ 0.8 Watt (Typical) + CF requirement.
Power connector: Standard 2.5 Scsi Hard Disk drive type SCSI-1 and 2 Compatible. 50 pin SCSI DIL 0.1” Connector.
SCSI transfer rate: 10Mbytes/second.

https://mountainsecuresystems.com/products/co … csi-to-sata.php

Depends on what you want to do with it and what you want to get out of it once you have it.

Does the Acard SCSI to IDE allow you to put a IDE to CF card adapter on the end of it? As a for instance as to what you could be looking at, of will you go with the BlueSCSI adapters.
SCSI2SD has always been a bone of contention with people because they are expensive.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-10-09, 01:54:

Depends on what you want to do with it and what you want to get out of it once you have it.

Does the Acard SCSI to IDE allow you to put a IDE to CF card adapter on the end of it? As a for instance as to what you could be looking at, of will you go with the BlueSCSI adapters.
SCSI2SD has always been a bone of contention with people because they are expensive.

I haven't tried that yet.
ACard adapters are much more expensive than SCSI2SD adapters. They are for about EUR/CHF/USD 200-300.

Disruptor wrote on 2023-10-09, 08:37:

ACard adapters are much more expensive than SCSI2SD adapters. They are for about EUR/CHF/USD 200-300.

I'm trying to keep the budget < $100.

I see AEC-7722IR devices on amazon for ~$50, but those are technically for CDROMs and they are 68pin adapters. Not sure they would work with a 50 pin adapter.
I see the AEC-7732U has Ultra SCSI (Fast-20) support which seems like I feature I'd like to have, but that one is not cheap. http://www.acard.com/index.files/Page728.htm

Doesn't look like BlueScsi or ZuluScsi support Ultra SCSI, but they do have some nice features
The ability to emulate multiple smaller devices from a single large storage device is a pretty nice feature that I wouldn't mind seeing on the Sintechi SD2ATA side of the world, but I imagine it likely increases latency a bit.
I saw in that BlueScsi mac video that they also have virtual CD support to eject and load different CD image files from the host system. That's not a must have for me, but it is an interesting feature.
I like that you can also step outside the image files and load files off the root of the SD device if you like too.

I see that the CF2SCSI products have remote management over Ethernet capability, which I'm sure is very appealing to some customers, but I don't particularly need it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH9vVrmwxlU

So it looks like the options are:

• SCSI2SD is not making new devices and has become a collectors item. This site will give you $75 and a ZuluScsi in trade for an SCSI2SD
• BlueScsi has cool multiple image features as well as some nice host software for some OS's and is under active development but the latest generations are limited to 10MB/s SCSI at this time https://bluescsi.com/docs/Compatibility
• ZuluScsi has similar software to BlueSCSI and SCSI2SD but supports different controllers and claims better performance. "Simultaneous transfer between SD card and SCSI bus for improved performance"
• ACard makes some attractive SCSI to IDE bridges that can do 20MB/s SCSI, but have uneven availability and may lack the drive image features of BlueScsi & ZuluScsi that can be useful on retro computers.
• CF2SCSI makes some network manageable devices with remote access features, but don't seem to do be in the direct sales business

What's the largest hard drive a blue scsi can emulate? I read their website but didnt see it mentioned

maxtherabbit wrote on 2023-10-09, 13:49:

What's the largest hard drive a blue scsi can emulate? I read their website but didnt see it mentioned

Here's what I see: https://bluescsi.com/docs/BlueSCSI-Images Custom Disk Images with Disk Jockey Disk Jockey is a free application for macOS and Windows that allows you to create disk images of any size. It can create simple disk images, and more complex ones with multiple partitions (HFS and ProDOS).

https://diskjockey.onegeekarmy.eu/
Disk Jockey is an application for macOS and Windows that lets you create disk images that work in devices like BlueSCSI, Floppy Emu and PiSCSI / RaSCSI, as well as in emulators like Basilisk II and Mini vMac.

Seems like the only imitations are the size of your SD media or your limitations of your legacy file system.

Disruptor wrote on 2023-10-09, 08:37:

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2023-10-09, 01:54:

Depends on what you want to do with it and what you want to get out of it once you have it.

Does the Acard SCSI to IDE allow you to put a IDE to CF card adapter on the end of it? As a for instance as to what you could be looking at, of will you go with the BlueSCSI adapters.
SCSI2SD has always been a bone of contention with people because they are expensive.

I haven't tried that yet.
ACard adapters are much more expensive than SCSI2SD adapters. They are for about EUR/CHF/USD 200-300.

https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?threads/conve … aec-7726.38935/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/microcont ... -file)/50/

I thought there was also a thread about this on vogons, though maybe it was just some comments.

In short.
It works.
I haven't tried any of the other methods of getting the firmware replaced yet.
Personally I used the hot air eeprom off, reprogram, and back on method.

If feipoa reads this he can chime in.

douglar wrote on 2023-10-08, 20:00:

... I’m worried that a >8gb device might have compatibility issies.

I have never seen compatibility issues on scsi controllers. Even my 1993 Apple Quadra 840av with 50pin scsi is able to detect my 80pin 300gb hdd fully. I would just try to get one 80pin scsi 73 GB or smaller, since the 80 pin ones are the cheapest. And get that adapter: https://www.ebay.de/itm/256204703084

But attention, it needs to be the one with 50pin AND 68pin connectors, not the one with only 50pin connector on the other side. The reasoning is, if your drive for some reason will not get detected by your scsi controller, then you can put a 68pin terminator to the 68pin connector of the adapter which will essentially terminate your high bytes.

Here is an example of an 80pin hdd: https://www.ebay.de/itm/275441521596

gmipf wrote on 2023-10-09, 15:31:

I have never seen compatibility issues on scsi controllers. Even my 1993 Apple Quadra 840av with 50pin scsi is able to detect my 80pin 300gb hdd fully. I would just try to get one 80pin scsi 73 GB or smaller, since the 80 pin ones are the cheapest. And get that adapter: https://www.ebay.de/itm/256204703084

But attention, it needs to be the one with 50pin AND 68pin connectors, not the one with only 50pin connector on the other side. The reasoning is, if your drive for some reason will not get detected by your scsi controller, then you can put a 68pin terminator to the 68pin connector of the adapter which will essentially terminate your high bytes.

Here's a screen capture of the adapter that you recommended, since ebay links go dead after a short period of time.

Here are some threads where SCSI's interaction with PC BIOS was not ideal for large drives:
ABP-960U PCI SCSI adapter. No more than 8GB.
SCSI and BIOS limits
Looks like it comes back to the same int13 limitations that caused trouble with IDE drives.

OK that seems to be a DOS compatibility layer issue. You want to use the drive in DOS? I think then your cheapest option is a bluescsi. Adaptec bioses have the option to turn off dos compatibility where Windows can detect the drive via the cards controller drivers. I think that way you can also bypass the 127gb limit of Win98se.

I also have this exact drive lying around: https://www.ebay.de/itm/234536520581
And 2 more 4gb 50pin drives. Send me a PN if you absolutely need a 50pin drive. But BlueSCSI is the cheaper option and more reliable.

depending on what transfer speeds you'ld like, either scsi2sd v6 or zuluscsi or an acard aec adapter would be the best option for fast transfer speeds, with the acard actually having the best speed dependent on what drive you attach to it with a max of 160MB/s for the aec-7726 or upgraded aec-7722, the other two have an absolute max of 10MB/s, and the other scsi adapters bluescsi, scsi2sd <> v6, ... will have a max of 5MB/s

His DTC 3270VL only has a 50pin connector which is 8 bit narrow, which can only go up to 10mb/s if its fast/narrow. His card could also be just 5mb/s too, not sure.

Be careful with those 80pin SCA to 50/68 adapters - it's quite common for the pins on the back of the 68/50 pin sockets to stick out and ground against the casing of the drive when you push the adapter all the way in to the drive connector.

You may want to apply some foam backed tape over them to be safe.

Like others I have had mixed results with acard adapters. The best device I had for performance was an old AztecMonster CF, followed by a newer Scsi2sd.

I try not to use my older workstations with SCSI drives in them these days though, as I'm now a grumpy old man who can't stand the noise of the drives.

Interesting never heard of the AztecMonster. I have found that guys website. He still sells newer products, here 2 of them:

https://artmix.com/products/product/stratos-t … ?v=394da5ea23cf
https://artmix.com/products/product/stratos-t … ?v=394da5ea23cf