Hello there!

I think you're trying an ESS cards that doesn't have DOS support. I'm not an expert, but from what I remember, there was a video that Phil from Philscomputerlab did, and he mentioned about something that ESS cut support starting from the Allegro card and onward, so the last DOS card that ESS did was the Solo-1. I would suggest to replace that Allegro with something more compatible.

Your motherboard doesn't have ISA, which limits the possibilities. There are some PCI sound cards that are OK in DOS, but unless you're lucky, you won't find them for cheap.
I leave to the rest of the community to suggest other options, but my recommendations would be ESS Solo-1, Yamaha YMF724, Sound Blaster Live!. Good luck.

aaronkatrini wrote on 2023-10-09, 21:17:

Hello there! […]
Show full quote

Hello there!

I think you're trying an ESS cards that doesn't have DOS support. I'm not an expert, but from what I remember, there was a video that Phil from Philscomputerlab did, and he mentioned about something that ESS cut support starting from the Allegro card and onward, so the last DOS card that ESS did was the Solo-1. I would suggest to replace that Allegro with something more compatible.

Your motherboard doesn't have ISA, which limits the possibilities. There are some PCI sound cards that are OK in DOS, but unless you're lucky, you won't find them for cheap.
I leave to the rest of the community to suggest other options, but my recommendations would be ESS Solo-1, Yamaha YMF724, Sound Blaster Live!. Good luck.

Hi! thanks for the answer 😀

Well, but actually (at least this\my card) have dos support ^^" it have drivers and works flawlessy under real dos! Well i noticed it sound different from other Sound Blaster emulations, i think because it emulates the 8bit version or idk, it sounds different but it always worked for me! Also, my mobo actually have an ISA slot, just right at the end, the long black one ^^"

I think is a motherboard chip problem, but i heard VIA had the best ESS audio support... i don't know, i hope other people can help me out!

The Allegro dropped ESFM (ESS's OPL3 compatible (and enhanced) FM implementation), but that doesn't mean no DOS support at all.
You should try to isolate the problem first:
- Try with a minimal setup: have only the absolute minimum hardware installed and try a fresh DOS install or even just a boot floppy (run e.g., "sys a:" to create one) with the drivers and a way to test the sound
- If that doesn't work try the card with the same software setup in another board

Where did you get the driver?
The chipset manufacturer shouldn't affect the compatibility with a specific brand of sound card. I've used ESS PCI cards (solo-1) in wildly different systems and only in one system I had real problems where solo1.com froze while initializing the card. But anyway, try isolating the issue and reducing the number of unknown factors first.

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-09, 23:36:

The Allegro dropped ESFM (ESS's OPL3 compatible (and enhanced) FM implementation), but that doesn't mean no DOS support at all. […]
Show full quote

The Allegro dropped ESFM (ESS's OPL3 compatible (and enhanced) FM implementation), but that doesn't mean no DOS support at all.
You should try to isolate the problem first:
- Try with a minimal setup: have only the absolute minimum hardware installed and try a fresh DOS install or even just a boot floppy (run e.g., "sys a:" to create one) with the drivers and a way to test the sound
- If that doesn't work try the card with the same software setup in another board

Where did you get the driver?
The chipset manufacturer shouldn't affect the compatibility with a specific brand of sound card. I've used ESS PCI cards (solo-1) in wildly different systems and only in one system I had real problems where solo1.com froze while initializing the card. But anyway, try isolating the issue and reducing the number of unknown factors first.

Thank you for the kind answer!

To be honest im not very acknowledged on ESS cards never had one 😅 i kinda read about this Solo-1 but i think this should be an Allegro or Maestro, i think.

Anyway i found drivers here, was on a zip with olther drivers for 19xx 18xx series, ofc i picked the right one for my card (1989S)

but is not really working like i was truly hoping 🙁 some few games will work, the others not i had no time for test all thousands i have on, but is clear a not 100% safe situation but strange at same time:

Keen 4 for example works, music is there and the fx effects despite they sound bit choppy you can hear them, but most of other games setup when they try to test the card just freeze like in Indycar 2.

One last funny strange thing is for example in Blood (Duke and all Build engine games too) that the music works as it should be, but no way to get any Sound FX card because no matter sound card type and IRQ/DMA i choose i get this:

So i don't really know, is like the card works in half, surely i can miss something (im using the exactly same hdd of previous working PC and same ess drivers) or maybe the Via Apollo chipset on this mobo is bad.. on basement i har other two socket 370 mobo's, but i don't know it they work and as far as i remember judt googling them, guess what? both have same via apollo chipset of my current one... 😅

I had a similar DMA problem on a soundbalster Vibra16xv. It uses the same DMA for 8 and 16 bits, and the duke engine cant use the right DMA (in my case 1) for 16 bits. When i use 8 bit sound fx modes in duke it works.

Maybe it helps...

DerBaum wrote on 2023-10-10, 10:02:

I had a similar DMA problem on a soundbalster Vibra16xv. It uses the same DMA for 8 and 16 bits, and the duke engine cant use the right DMA (in my case 1) for 16 bits. When i use 8 bit sound fx modes in duke it works.

Maybe it helps...

just tried selecting bot 16 bit and 8 bit under sound settings in Blood\Duke3D but that damn red error shows up always 🙁

Build-based DOS games uses the ASS (Apogee Sound System), where the HDMA and 16-bit mixing only has effect on the SB16, GUS, Ensoniq SoundScape and PAS16. Any other sound card will only use 8-bit mixing regardless of the settings.

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-10-10, 11:28:

just tried selecting bot 16 bit and 8 bit under sound settings in Blood\Duke3D but that damn red error shows up always 🙁

You are using an VIA apollo based chipset.
I believe these have intrgrated sound blaster pro emulation which can be enabled or disabled in the bios. Make sure these aren't grabbing resources for your sound card.

I forgot to mention these sound cards can all be set to T-DMA mode as their method DMA for sound blaster emulation, which may work or not work for you. You can force it by editing the ini file in the root of the C: directory or use a special batch executable found here on another post caled ESSINIT.

Stainlesscat wrote on 2023-10-10, 14:22:

You are using an VIA apollo based chipset. I believe these have intrgrated sound blaster pro emulation which can be enabled or d […]
Show full quote

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-10-10, 11:28:

just tried selecting bot 16 bit and 8 bit under sound settings in Blood\Duke3D but that damn red error shows up always 🙁

You are using an VIA apollo based chipset.
I believe these have intrgrated sound blaster pro emulation which can be enabled or disabled in the bios. Make sure these aren't grabbing resources for your sound card.

I forgot to mention these sound cards can all be set to T-DMA mode as their method DMA for sound blaster emulation, which may work or not work for you. You can force it by editing the ini file in the root of the C: directory or use a special batch executable found here on another post caled ESSINIT.

sadly my mobo comes without even a dedicated soundboard.. the holes behind the case are even sealed, because there ain't no sound on board 🙁 same goes for graphics.

How can i change these settings you kindly mentioned? there are some ESS.ini files, but everytime i try to edit with with notepad or wordpad they are just a bunch of corrupted ascii characters or black squares or the smiley (which remembers me the ZZT character, 🤣)

Im considering then to buy another card, the most cheap one if possible (i live in Italy, Europe and eBay prices here are ridiculousy high for pieces of junk you could find for some pair of bucks in the States or any flea market) but if i would, i could try go for an ISA Sound Blaster, that i never had in my whole life and as the mobo have one ISA slot, are they good for Windows 98 3D Gaming and expecially DOS games? which one you guys would suggest me? Or any other PCI audio card would be good, is a shame because with this ESS card i had no problem on other PC to load up, was pretty easy and fast, also i didn't had the troubles that the two SB cards i own (the SB16 PCI and the Live! 5.1) always gave me: slow music reproduction (expecially the Duke 3D theme) and the annoying Wolfenstein 3D lag when you walk against a wall (the bzzzzzzzzzz sound, when this happens the game fps drops everytime, i know is silly but is annoying, and with ESS this never happened).

Thanks again!

Edit: for example, this is the cheapest i can find for total of 21€ (19 dollars around i think), is it good or worth?

https://www.ebay.it/itm/155470797759?hash=ite … ABk9SR5rQ0KXjYg

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-10-10, 16:08:

Im considering then to buy another card, the most cheap one if possible (i live in Italy, Europe and eBay prices here are ridiculousy high for pieces of junk you could find for some pair of bucks in the States or any flea market) but if i would, i could try go for an ISA Sound Blaster, that i never had in my whole life and as the mobo have one ISA slot, are they good for Windows 98 3D Gaming and expecially DOS games? which one you guys would suggest me? Or any other PCI audio card would be good, is a shame because with this ESS card i had no problem on other PC to load up, was pretty easy and fast, also i didn't had the troubles that the two SB cards i own (the SB16 PCI and the Live! 5.1) always gave me: slow music reproduction (expecially the Duke 3D theme) and the annoying Wolfenstein 3D lag when you walk against a wall (the bzzzzzzzzzz sound, when this happens the game fps drops everytime, i know is silly but is annoying, and with ESS this never happened).

Thanks again!

Yep, PCI sound cards in DOS are hit and miss. With the FM synth emulation of Creative and Aureal PCI sound cards being terrible.

If you're sticking with that motherboard and insist with a PCI sound card, consider looking for a Yamaha sound card based on the YMF-72x chip which are the best ones when dealing with DOS compatibility and having real OPL3 FM synth.

Interesting, it seems you're using the driver for the ESS Maestro with you ESS Allegro. I'm not too familiar with those cards and how similar they are, but that could be part of the issue. I quickly looked at vogonsdrivers.com, but didn't find any drivers for the Allegro there. Phil did a video on the Allegro as aaronkatrini mentioned, so maybe he has the drivers on his website as well.

There might be a .SYS file in the driver package as well (there is for other cards), that you could try loading. From my experience with the Solo-1 the computer crashes if you load the .SYS driver after EMM386.EXE, so load it before. With my setup I didn't need this part of the driver but maybe it will help in your case.

Also in your screenshot you can see the driver selected DDMA for the legacy DMA (as in: used with ISA cards) emulation. There is probably also a TDMA and maybe a SB-Link option. The first one you could also try and maybe have a better result. The kind of emulation is actually dependent on the chipset you use and some combinations work better than others. That's probably what you were referring to when you said ESS and VIA were a good match, now that I think about it from this angle.
Others probably know better if DDMA or TDMA is supposed to work better with your chipset (which one is it by the way?), but with only two options it's definitely worth a try.
SB-Link (if at all supported by the Maestro and Allegro cards) doesn't use software emulation for legacy DMA, but relies on hardware support from the card and mainboard (you connect the missing lines on the PCI bus via a 6-pin connector on the card and mainboard) and seems to work very well if supported.
For the Solo-1 what DMA method is used, is configured via a Windows utility included in the driver which can write the binary config file, but the driver actually only needs that file. I don't know if it's similar for the Maestro/Allegro cards, but it might be. To know more I'd have to have a look at the driver files you use.

Here are infos on the configuration for the Solo-1, which might be similar or completely different to your card's:
ESS Solo-1 easy(ish) setup with ESSOLO.INI (No Windows/ESSOLO.SYS Required!)

Edit: removed potentially incorrect and confusing info

Ah, parts of my post are obsolete now 😉
Can you open the ESS.INI file in a hexeditor or attach it here?

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-10, 17:20:

with your chipset (which one is it by the way?)

VIA VT82C694X (Apollo Pro 133A)

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-10, 17:23:

Ah, parts of my post are obsolete now 😉
Can you open the ESS.INI file in a hexeditor or attach it here?

https://easyupload.io/fusjiz

here's a pure copy of the all files im using right now that i directly copy and paste on the C:\

let me know! even here on Win10 if i try to open the .ini files i only see corrupted characters on notepad or wordpad... could it be only me? I've tried download now these files on Phil site (https://www.philscomputerlab.com/ess-es1988-allegro-1.html) only the .ini for test, and even that file have all strange characters, wtf?

Thanks for any help 😀

edit: i've tried using the ESS three only files above of Phil right now, as always it looks loading up properly (as shown on my picture posts above) but always on DDMA and again i can't hear music or SFX on many games, while with that other PC was working so perfectly 🙁 How can i change it to TDMA? is possible?

That's because the file isn't a text file despite the .INI extension. It's a binary file that contains raw bytes that the ESSAUDIO.COM and/or MAESTRO.COM programs read in to know how to configure the sound card. The contents seem very similar to the .INI file for the Solo-1, except that it contains 98 Bytes instead of only 16 Bytes for the Solo-1. The link I posted earlier explains the format for the Solo-1 specific file.

But enough background, you can try this file here: https://resonant-bytes.de/tmp/ESSAUDIO.INI
I edited the byte that controls the DMA emulation method and set it to TDMA, at least for the Solo-1. The rest looks similar enough that I think it will do the same here.

Do you have a link to the driver from Phil's site? The one I found was missing the .INI file completely and was only usable once I wrote my own with the info in the other thread in a hex editor.

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-09, 23:36:

The Allegro dropped ESFM (ESS's OPL3 compatible (and enhanced) FM implementation), but that doesn't mean no DOS support at all. […]
Show full quote

The Allegro dropped ESFM (ESS's OPL3 compatible (and enhanced) FM implementation), but that doesn't mean no DOS support at all.
You should try to isolate the problem first:
- Try with a minimal setup: have only the absolute minimum hardware installed and try a fresh DOS install or even just a boot floppy (run e.g., "sys a:" to create one) with the drivers and a way to test the sound
- If that doesn't work try the card with the same software setup in another board

Where did you get the driver?
The chipset manufacturer shouldn't affect the compatibility with a specific brand of sound card. I've used ESS PCI cards (solo-1) in wildly different systems and only in one system I had real problems where solo1.com froze while initializing the card. But anyway, try isolating the issue and reducing the number of unknown factors first.

ESS Allegro definitely needs to use the new ESSAUDIO TSR, although newer ESS TSRs are backwards compatible with older cards like Solo and Maestro. Note that if you use ESSAUDIO with a Solo-1 it will print "ES1938/1969" instead of "SOLO", but it'll work fine (the difference is purely cosmetic).

Old VIA boards may need to disable their onboard SB emulation to make sure the usual Sound Blaster resources aren't taken. But AFAIK PCI audio cards should be able to work on old VIA chipsets just fine using DDMA. Back then I got my Solo-1 working out-of-box on a Socket 462 board with KT133A (VT82C686B).

Chipset manufacturers do break legacy PCI audio compatibility. From the information in the OP I suppose the old LGA775 board was also using a VIA chipset, considering it was using DDR2 memory and the ESS card worked fine. Of all LGA775 DDR2-capable chipsets I know about, only VIA chipsets could make ESS audio cards work as intended (with proper digital audio).

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-10-10, 16:29:

If you're sticking with that motherboard and insist with a PCI sound card, consider looking for a Yamaha sound card based on the YMF-72x chip which are the best ones when dealing with DOS compatibility and having real OPL3 FM synth.

Depending on the chipset. Yamaha's setup program (SETUPDS) has a list of chipset PCI IDs meant for deciding what options to enable, and it won't work as expected on chipsets it does not know (in case of chipsets released later than SETUPDS itself). Some unofficial SETUPDS mods could be found on this forum which were modded to include some newer DDMA-capable VIA chipsets, so there is a chance it will work.

Thanks for all responses! Sorry lately i am very rusty on my favourite passion ever, and also have less time free 🙁

Fact is i never heard of ESS before (maybe something, barely) but for sure never had one sound card of this type, i found this on an old box my father gave me like two years ago and when i found a PCI sound card was exicted to try if it was old enough to be able doing some nasty DOS native emulation sound, as looking fast on internet this xWave i didn't found much, but looking on chip i found this 1989 model number so i found little more, but i am very nooby on this brand of chip (only had Sound Blasters)

enough with nostalgia drama, thanks to the kind etXzat for your support

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-12, 02:26:

you can try this file here: https://resonant-bytes.de/tmp/ESSAUDIO.INI

i've tried swap the .ini file you provide with mine, but no luck 🙁 it is always on DDMA mode, looks like is stuck somehow or this chip is a very nasty b*stard (never been huge fan of any VIA chipsets, expecially this one that gave me other troubles with AGP 4X)

as you can see the message are always the same, which make it looks like everything loaded up fine but sadly not. I super fast tested some games and for example Jill of The Jungle runs perfect: sounds and FX are there.

No luck in DOOM 1 & 2, i've tried Epic Pinball and Jazz Jackrabbit and despite looks like the game recognize it (i can change volume) and setting the right IRQ and DMA (5 and 1) on setup, the games are simply mute, no sounds at all. Same goes for Duke and Blood but i am sure other games will have this issues, is a sort of 50\50 when of course just the minority works, and this is useless for me 🙁

here's a video fast example of what happens on Build games:

https://www.veed.io/view/it-IT/f82aaf24-ef0e- … aeae614a?panel=

is like the music is fine, FX effects are not (tried every choice possible), which i didn't had with previous motherboard and i finally had chance to look the model!

is an ASUS P5VD2-VM\V which, ironically, mounts a VIA VT8237A chipset. With this mobo\chip the same exactly card with the same exactly driver i provided worked 100% on pratically ANY game without a single issues, even on Another World (!!!) but sadly is half dead (maybe a RAM slot issue) so i only have this other Asus as second option, which is even older so i was almost going super sure it would have worked fine, but gives me all this trouble 🙁

etXzat wrote on 2023-10-12, 02:26:

Do you have a link to the driver from Phil's site? The one I found was missing the .INI file completely and was only usable once I wrote my own with the info in the other thread in a hex editor.

sadly i can't really remember where i got that driver, but it was a .RAR file with\for lot of E19xx models, including mine. I can upload the whole rar if needed.

well nobody is answering anymore, i know the struggling and try to understand mine 🙁

so, i think considering maybe get a new mobo and start a new project, using the same parts but this time moving on AMD, as by my very past experience i almost didn't had any issue.

im considering buying this on eBay, an ASUS A7S8X-MX, Socket 462 (i have here both an Athlon XP 1700+ Palomino, and a Sempron 2600+) with chipset SiS 964.

Is this good for both 98 and DOS gaming? will my ESS work under this mobo\chipset 100%?

Thanks again for any answer 😀

Do you have another mainboard at hand or can borrow one to test things without having to buy one?
I can't say anything about the mainboard above unfortunately.

VenomSpark wrote on 2023-10-13, 17:30:

well nobody is answering anymore, i know the struggling and try to understand mine :( […]
Show full quote

well nobody is answering anymore, i know the struggling and try to understand mine 🙁

so, i think considering maybe get a new mobo and start a new project, using the same parts but this time moving on AMD, as by my very past experience i almost didn't had any issue.

im considering buying this on eBay, an ASUS A7S8X-MX, Socket 462 (i have here both an Athlon XP 1700+ Palomino, and a Sempron 2600+) with chipset SiS 964.

s-l1600.jpg

Is this good for both 98 and DOS gaming? will my ESS work under this mobo\chipset 100%?

Thanks again for any answer 😀

If DOS gaming is in any kind of priority, I’d go with a mainboard which has an ISA slot so you are able to install ISA sound card on it. It makes life so much easier with DOS when you don’t have to deal with PCI and you can also get proper OPL3 or near equivalent sound (ESS) from ISA sound card.

I can’t say anything about the board, SiS chipsets were not that common during Socket A era as it was mostly ruled by VIA and later on also nVidia. That is not to say that SiS isn’t a servicable option. For MB I’d pick something from VIA. There are KT133 and KT133A mobos with ISA slot, so if I’d build sA based system for DOS/Win9x, I’d probably go that route. That leaves later (and faster) Athlon XPs out of the question, but then again, they are not needed and that platform should offer good compatibility for DOS.

If you are going to go socket A route and with a mainboard without 12V CPU VRM, make sure that you have PSU that can provide enough power on 5V rail, so you don’t run into issues because of that. Many modern ATX supplies have less than 20A on 5V which is too little, but it of course depends on the rest of the system too. Most PSUs of the era provided at least 30A on 5V rail (although that is rarely actually required). But, cheaper modern PSUs are in many cases also group regulated and designed for heavy 12V load. When you get a heavy load on 5V rail instead, the regulation goes bonkers and 5V rail tanks even if there is still more or less enough power for the system. So, it is not just about the amperage, but also how the PSU behaves on a crossload situation.