dionb wrote on 2023-11-14, 15:15:

As for the 'investment' thing. Basically, you're too late for this time period. That would have been the thing to do 15 years ago when these things were too old for desktop use anymore, were common as muck and even high-end, popular-brand and now much sought-after systems and components were being dumped. If you want that, rather look at the Conroe (Core2) period. Look in the e-waste, be picky about boards and cards, save them for 15 years and profit. For 1990s stuff, accept that the big value increase has already been and gone and you are the one who will have to pay someone else's profit.

Let me ask a question - why do you think that there'd be much opportunity in Conroes and other C2Ds/C2Qs?

In my mind, the value of a retro thing is largely tied to something being the last and best that can do a particular thing. So, for example, the Voodoo 5 is insanely valuable because it is the last and best card that can play Glide games. Apple GeForce 4 Ti4600s are listed for $1000USD on eBay because they're the last and best card compatible with OS 9. Etc. Then, I suppose, there is pure nostalgia - people missing thing X with spec Y from their youth and wanting the exact same thing again.

What can Conroes do that newer things can't? Sandy/Ivy Bridges will run the same operating systems, same video cards, same everything. I suppose that if, 15 years from now, Ivy Bridges are insanely scarce, then maybe there will start to be some reasonable demand for the third-next-best-thing (on the Intel side). But there's an insane amount of supply of Ivy Bridges right now at least.

(Note: I am excluding the Conroes on i865 AGP boards here. Those have obvious value... at least on the board side. And their value/rarity is partly because they were something that very few people at the time bought - they were a very value-minded option for people who didn't have the money to go DDR2/PCI-E with their Conroe. I doubt anyone bought an LGA775 i865 board in 2008 thinking 'oh wow, amazing Windows 98 machine potential here')

lup31337 wrote on 2023-11-14, 13:14:

...I will probably get over it pretty soon. When that time comes, it would be interesting to have a collectable piece that appreciates in value over time....

lup31337 wrote on 2023-11-14, 13:51:

...desirable...

You should consider stocks instead of old hardware that can fail any time and lose half to all its value.
That would be the smarter investment.

Rather than looking at it as an investment, I'd look at it as something you can enjoy that will hopefully hold most of its value over time. I look at what I'm doing now with retro machines like what my dad was doing with Lionel trains when he was my age. He was nostalgic, so he was buying stuff at near its peak value. That stuff isn't worthless now, but it's worth half what he likely paid for it, without adjusting for inflation.

If it were me, I'd see what opportunities are out there along the lines of a Pentium MMX, whether that means building something or buying a brand-name machine and replacing whatever parts are missing. Take the opportunity, upgrade it a bit, enjoy the machine, and see what happens value-wise, but think more along the lines of it being something you can enjoy and get some of your money back out of, rather than something that's going to be worth double in seven years like a mutual fund. I overpaid for a Tandy 1000 a couple of years ago, especially given the condition, but I had fun fixing it up and playing on it has been enjoyable. If that Tandy ends up being worth $50 someday, that's not a tragedy since I probably got more than $200 of enjoyment out of it. I'd venture to say most of the things we do for fun don't have a way to get any of the money back out later.

VivienM wrote on 2023-11-14, 23:34:

Let me ask a question - why do you think that there'd be much opportunity in Conroes and other C2Ds/C2Qs? […]
Show full quote

dionb wrote on 2023-11-14, 15:15:

As for the 'investment' thing. Basically, you're too late for this time period. That would have been the thing to do 15 years ago when these things were too old for desktop use anymore, were common as muck and even high-end, popular-brand and now much sought-after systems and components were being dumped. If you want that, rather look at the Conroe (Core2) period. Look in the e-waste, be picky about boards and cards, save them for 15 years and profit. For 1990s stuff, accept that the big value increase has already been and gone and you are the one who will have to pay someone else's profit.

Let me ask a question - why do you think that there'd be much opportunity in Conroes and other C2Ds/C2Qs?

In my mind, the value of a retro thing is largely tied to something being the last and best that can do a particular thing. So, for example, the Voodoo 5 is insanely valuable because it is the last and best card that can play Glide games. Apple GeForce 4 Ti4600s are listed for $1000USD on eBay because they're the last and best card compatible with OS 9. Etc. Then, I suppose, there is pure nostalgia - people missing thing X with spec Y from their youth and wanting the exact same thing again.

What can Conroes do that newer things can't? Sandy/Ivy Bridges will run the same operating systems, same video cards, same everything. I suppose that if, 15 years from now, Ivy Bridges are insanely scarce, then maybe there will start to be some reasonable demand for the third-next-best-thing (on the Intel side). But there's an insane amount of supply of Ivy Bridges right now at least.

I disagree. It's about scarcity and nostalgia. There is absolutely nothing that a Socket 4 Pentium 60 can do that a Socket 7 Pentium 133 can't do yet prices for the former are a multiple of the latter. There is absolutely nothing a VLB video card can do that an equivalent PCI card can't yet take a look at the price of both with 2MB RAM.

Even looking at Voodoos, the Voodoo 4 sells for more than the Voodoo 5, despite it literally being half the card. And let's not get started about sound cards. The functionality of the original AdLib card is duplicated in every single Sound Blaster and clone, in many cases such that you can't hear any difference (eg. SB 1.x vs AdLib) yet you pay vastly more for that AdLib.

So no, there's nothing a Conroe can do that an Ivy Bridge can't, but that's only a very small part of the story. I've seen it happen over the past few years: back in 2018 Pentium 4 stuff was still being dumped. Now it has become scarce and anything sought-after commands prices similar to P3 and older. I personally can't imagine anyone being nostalgic about that crap, but that just shows I'm too old. I see people a decade or two younger searching around to rebuilt the noisy hothead So478 systems they once suffered under as teenagers, and there will be people just as nostalgic to build that ultimate Conroe build that still couldn't play Crysis acceptably 😉

VivienM wrote on 2023-11-14, 23:03:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2023-11-14, 18:58:

If you aren't sure if you'd keep using it, I'd recommend starting with a thin client. You can get them for cheap and some of them can run DOS natively.

Maybe it's different in bigger markets, but when I looked at thin clients, I found that the models with the most established DOS/Win9x reputations were... also priced quite high. And then there are tons of $15 thin clients that are... of very dubious retro usefulness.

I've picked up a few locally. The last one was a brand new Wyse CX0 for $15. I was watching for about a year before it came up. I don't know what you consider large, but my city has about 1.3 million people. Like everyone else who watched that Phil's Computer Lab video, I bought an HP T5710 off eBay. It came to about $65 total and that was from Germany to Canada.

Dave Farquhar wrote on 2023-11-15, 03:39:

Rather than looking at it as an investment, I'd look at it as something you can enjoy that will hopefully hold most of its value over time. I look at what I'm doing now with retro machines like what my dad was doing with Lionel trains when he was my age. He was nostalgic, so he was buying stuff at near its peak value. That stuff isn't worthless now, but it's worth half what he likely paid for it, without adjusting for inflation.

If it were me, I'd see what opportunities are out there along the lines of a Pentium MMX, whether that means building something or buying a brand-name machine and replacing whatever parts are missing. Take the opportunity, upgrade it a bit, enjoy the machine, and see what happens value-wise, but think more along the lines of it being something you can enjoy and get some of your money back out of, rather than something that's going to be worth double in seven years like a mutual fund. I overpaid for a Tandy 1000 a couple of years ago, especially given the condition, but I had fun fixing it up and playing on it has been enjoyable. If that Tandy ends up being worth $50 someday, that's not a tragedy since I probably got more than $200 of enjoyment out of it. I'd venture to say most of the things we do for fun don't have a way to get any of the money back out later.

I would buy a Tandy 1000 for $50 in a heartbreak. I'm still kicking myself for missing out on one locally that was $200 with a monitor and joystick. I haven't seen any others come up since then.

lup31337 wrote on 2023-11-14, 13:14:

However, I want to pick certain parts that are hard to find and potentially expensive. The idea is to have a retro PC than I can play on, but I will probably get over it pretty soon. When that time comes, it would be interesting to have a collectable piece that appreciates in value over time. I don't know if that is even a thing but let me know if you have any ideas to help me out.

Especially for a first build, and especially especially if you expect yourself to get over with the hobby once you scratched your itch, just emulate build something cheap that's good enough. You won't make money off of it when the time comes, but there are a lot of decent parts where the prices have already bottomed out and at least you won't lose money on them.

You can build something for less than $50€ that its just as capable if not better than a $500€+ period correct ultimate dream build.

lup31337 wrote on 2023-11-14, 13:14:

I want to build a machine that can basically run DOS or WIn 95/98 games (just DOS is fine as well). However, I want to pick certain parts that are hard to find and potentially expensive. The idea is to have a retro PC than I can play on, but I will probably get over it pretty soon. When that time comes, it would be interesting to have a collectable piece that appreciates in value over time. I don't know if that is even a thing but let me know if you have any ideas to help me out.

What's your budget then? Sounds like you've got some pocket money to spend. 🤑

I'm not sure whether you need a platform for your favorite games or just want something to "invest" on. If it's the former, you can start with a list of games you'd like to play so we can recommend system(s) and components suitable for them, although Gmlb256's suggestion (Socket 7 MB + Pentium-MMX + 16-32 MB RAM + S3 Trio64 + optional Voodoo card + ESS/YMF FM sound chip) would cope 90% of DOS and early Win9x games. If you aim for the latter, well, I'm sure many users (myself included) can give you a looong list of "last," "ultimate," and "unobtainium" builds. The practicalities of those systems, however, are completely different stories. 😆

Dave Farquhar wrote on 2023-11-15, 03:39:

Rather than looking at it as an investment, I'd look at it as something you can enjoy that will hopefully hold most of its value over time.

One thing I would caution here is that electronic hardware can break down over time, even when not in use. Leaky capacitors and batteries, or just general corrosion of parts can damage hardware while in storage.

In OP's case, if they decided they no longer wanted to use a retro system, best thing would be to sell it while in working condition and potentially recoup their initial costs.

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2023-11-15, 07:47:

VivienM wrote on 2023-11-14, 23:03:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2023-11-14, 18:58:

If you aren't sure if you'd keep using it, I'd recommend starting with a thin client. You can get them for cheap and some of them can run DOS natively.

Maybe it's different in bigger markets, but when I looked at thin clients, I found that the models with the most established DOS/Win9x reputations were... also priced quite high. And then there are tons of $15 thin clients that are... of very dubious retro usefulness.

I've picked up a few locally. The last one was a brand new Wyse CX0 for $15. I was watching for about a year before it came up. I don't know what you consider large, but my city has about 1.3 million people. Like everyone else who watched that Phil's Computer Lab video, I bought an HP T5710 off eBay. It came to about $65 total and that was from Germany to Canada.

And now the only T5710 on eBay is $100ish + $100 shipping to Canada...

I mostly was defining bigger markets by country, not region. I'd presume there are plenty of eBay US sellers who only want to sell to the U.S., maybe the same with European sellers. So... certainly possible that someone in the US or EU could access a broader supply of cheaper units.

VivienM wrote on 2023-11-16, 00:23:

Ensign Nemo wrote on 2023-11-15, 07:47:

VivienM wrote on 2023-11-14, 23:03:

Maybe it's different in bigger markets, but when I looked at thin clients, I found that the models with the most established DOS/Win9x reputations were... also priced quite high. And then there are tons of $15 thin clients that are... of very dubious retro usefulness.

I've picked up a few locally. The last one was a brand new Wyse CX0 for $15. I was watching for about a year before it came up. I don't know what you consider large, but my city has about 1.3 million people. Like everyone else who watched that Phil's Computer Lab video, I bought an HP T5710 off eBay. It came to about $65 total and that was from Germany to Canada.

And now the only T5710 on eBay is $100ish + $100 shipping to Canada...

I mostly was defining bigger markets by country, not region. I'd presume there are plenty of eBay US sellers who only want to sell to the U.S., maybe the same with European sellers. So... certainly possible that someone in the US or EU could access a broader supply of cheaper units.

I agree with you about country differences. Sometimes I end up on the US eBay and find hardware I'm looking for listed for a good price. When I switch back to Canada the shipping is often 2X the price of what the item is. Even shipping within Canada can be prohibitive, as Canada Post is way more expensive than a lot of other countries.