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First post, by eeJay

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Hi guys,
I've been dealing with this unstable motherboard for a few days now and can't figure out what's wrong with it.

The CPU is a 486 DX2 66 Mhz (5 V).
It has a heatsink and an active fan (noisy at startup, but working) cooling it.

Installed are 2 sticks of 72 pin RAM, 8 MB each.
There are 256K of L2 cache installed and properly detected.

VGA card : Trident 8900C/CL/0 (ISA)

Sound card: Sound Blaster 16 CT 2290

Symptoms: certain games either soft crash (error notifications across the screen, larger letters, goes back to command prompt), freeze or the entire system restarts after a few minutes of playing. Or leaving the PC idling in game.
The game that displays this behavior the quickest is Tyrian 2000. The same happens with Raptor and Terminal Velocity, but maybe it takes a bit longer. Actually, Terminal Velocity also hanged during setup and I had to repeat the install about 3 times until it finished successfully.

Then again, I haven't noticed this instability with other games - Wacky Wheels, Jazz Jackrabbit. Also not with PhilComputerLabs bench games- Doom and Quake. I even played Death Rally (this machine is definitely too slow for it), and it ran fine (that is, it didn't crash).

What I've tried with no luck:
- Checked all the jumpers; they are set OK.
- Used Memtest86+ (tested with version 2.00 and 4.00), passes with no errors.
- Swapped out the RAM anyway with a single stick of 16 MB as well as 2 sticks (32 MB total) RAM.
32 MB actually made the symptoms in Tyrian even worse: this one level I started got successfully completed (end animation) within about 3 seconds after entering it. Also, there were a lot of blank screens/PC freezes in game with this memory configuration.
- Removed everything except for the Super I/O card and the video card.
- Set up a fresh DOS 6.22 installation from a SD card (bypassing the hard drive).

I would be very grateful for any ideas. I can provide photos of the motherboard in the coming days if necessary.

Thank you.

Reply 1 of 13, by eeJay

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https://imgur.com/a/DsSlxHE

OK, here are some photos of the motherboard.
Does anyone notice anything obviously wrong with it?
There is a bent pin on the 4th ISA slot; I have just avoided using it.

The first thing I want to do is use a modern ATX power supply (with an adapter) to rule out the PSU. So far, I've been using the AT-one that came with the case. Occasionally during boot, the HDD had trouble starting up. But the HDD is otherwise perfectly fine; tested it with Scandisk and there were no errors/bad sectors found. So I'm guessing the 5V line might also be weak, causing instability?

Reply 2 of 13, by rasz_pl

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make super sure your ram is FPM, those glitches do sound like almost working EDO
I would also remove cache just for a test

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 3 of 13, by eeJay

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OK, thank you.
The 16 MB RAM sticks I used to test were definitely EDO.
The 2 that are now installed (and came with the PC) are FPM (just checked; they are marked as FPM).

Is it OK if i just set the jumpers for less cache instead of removing the cache chips?
I'm a bit afraid of breaking something ...

Reply 5 of 13, by eeJay

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https://imgur.com/BIHMVlj

Progress report:

  • Simply trying with an ATX PSU didn't change anything. So, it's not the PSU
  • Decreasing cache size to 2 bank 128 KB and 64 KB as well as 1 bank 128 KB via jumpers: the system still crashed. With 2 bank 128 KB In Tyrian 2000 (idle mode), Instead of lasting about 5 minutes, it took about 10 minutes to crash. With 2 bank 64 KB, there was a system restart after about a minute of launching the game
  • Disabling external cache in BIOS: the system is stable.

So, I guess it's time to start removing those cache chips. Any tips for that? Should I use contact cleaner before removing chips from the sockets?
And probably use a plastic tool or something?

Reply 6 of 13, by eeJay

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OK, my logic is as follows:
Since I set the jumpers to only work with one bank and I still got the same error, it makes sense that the faulty chip is in bank 0.
So, I removed all chips from bank 0 (except for the tag chip) and moved the 4 chips from bank 1 to bank 0.
Testing now.
Even if I only get 128 KB to work, I'll be happy.

Reply 7 of 13, by eeJay

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Update:
Changing chips between banks didn't work.
I then bought some 15ns 256k chips and inserted them today.
Before that, I cleaned the sockets with some contact spray.
Left the timings on auto.
But still, the same error appears after running Tyrian 2000 in idle for a few minutes.

Let's say I want to test the SRAM chips one by one in order to find out if any of them are faulty. How could I do that?
Try inserting each one of them as the tag chip and see if the system still boots?

Any other ideas; maybe something else is wrong with the board and even the original SRAM chips are actually OK?

Reply 8 of 13, by CoffeeOne

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eeJay wrote on 2024-02-08, 14:42:
Update: Changing chips between banks didn't work. I then bought some 15ns 256k chips and inserted them today. Before that, I cle […]
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Update:
Changing chips between banks didn't work.
I then bought some 15ns 256k chips and inserted them today.
Before that, I cleaned the sockets with some contact spray.
Left the timings on auto.
But still, the same error appears after running Tyrian 2000 in idle for a few minutes.

Let's say I want to test the SRAM chips one by one in order to find out if any of them are faulty. How could I do that?
Try inserting each one of them as the tag chip and see if the system still boots?

Any other ideas; maybe something else is wrong with the board and even the original SRAM chips are actually OK?

With unstable srams your computer will crash very fast, not after a few minutes.
Maybe you have corrupted data on the harddisk? Because when you wrote the data, the system was unstable?
If yes, it would be best to wipe everything, by using fdisk and format and then installing everything again.

Reply 9 of 13, by eeJay

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@CoffeeOne: I already tried that; went from the original HDD to an adapter with SD card + fresh install.

Another update:
I now left the demo mode of Tyrian (instead of Tyrian 2000) running; has been stable for over an hour.
Maybe it really is just an issue of corrupted software?
Like I said: Doom, Quake, Jazz Jackrabbit, even Death Rally have given me no issues.
On the other hand, Tyrian 2000, Raptor and Terminal Velocity keep crashing.

Reply 10 of 13, by CoffeeOne

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eeJay wrote on 2024-02-08, 16:42:
@CoffeeOne: I already tried that; went from the original HDD to an adapter with SD card + fresh install. […]
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@CoffeeOne: I already tried that; went from the original HDD to an adapter with SD card + fresh install.

Another update:
I now left the demo mode of Tyrian (instead of Tyrian 2000) running; has been stable for over an hour.
Maybe it really is just an issue of corrupted software?
Like I said: Doom, Quake, Jazz Jackrabbit, even Death Rally have given me no issues.
On the other hand, Tyrian 2000, Raptor and Terminal Velocity keep crashing.

Did you install Tyrian when you had EDO RAM inside?

Reply 11 of 13, by Towncivilian

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Tried a different IDE cable?

abit BX-133 RAID, P3-S 1.4Ghz, 768MB PC133, GeForce FX5200, SB16 ISA, 2x40GB RAID1, Sony SDT-9000 & Connor CTD-8000 SCSI DDS2 DAT drives, 3COM 10/100 NIC, Win2k SP4
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Reply 12 of 13, by eeJay

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Did you install Tyrian when you had EDO RAM inside?

No, I set it up when the two original FP sticks were in. I copied the game files from a USB stick (I have a couple of those ISA USB cards). Maybe that caused the corruption. Oh, and I didn't actually "install" the game, just copied the files over, ran the sound setup and then the game.

Tried a different IDE cable?

No, but definitely worth a try; thank you for the tip.

Reply 13 of 13, by fsinan

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Did you checked this;

SOME CACHE MEMORY CONSIDERATIONS TOP
==================================================
Since single bank cache installations (B, D, F) prevent the cache sub-system from using interleaving access, the "Auto Configuration" in the Advanced Chipset Setup must be disabled and the "Cache Read Wait State" must also be set to "3-2-2-2" to ensure proper operation.

Source;
https://www.elhvb.com/webhq/models/486vlb3/m912v17.htm

Download the manual. In memory.htm

System:1
Cyrix 5x86-100GP
U-Board ST1A with "0"KB Cache 😀
System:2
AMD K6-2-475(Changing frequently with Cyrix 6x86MX PR-233)
TMC MI5VP4
System:3
UMC U5S-40
486UL-P101