VOGONS


First post, by Dominus

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So this old FM Towns desktop came into my possession;)

And I need help.
- is this the one that you can put a 486 CPU in?
- what RAM can you put there?
- I live in Germany and we have ~220-230 Volts, opposed to the 100V Japan has.
In my theory, I could just change the PSU for an age appropriate German one as I guess the FM Towns motherboard has standard connectors that get 12V, 5V or whatever. 🤷‍♂️
- how do I open this thing up further???
- and replacing the hard drive with CF is probably also a good idea 😉

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Reply 1 of 16, by PC Hoarder Patrol

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Dominus wrote on 2024-01-20, 19:45:
So this old FM Towns desktop came into my possession;) […]
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So this old FM Towns desktop came into my possession;)

And I need help.
- is this the one that you can put a 486 CPU in?
- what RAM can you put there?
- I live in Germany and we have ~220-230 Volts, opposed to the 100V Japan has.
In my theory, I could just change the PSU for an age appropriate German one as I guess the FM Towns motherboard has standard connectors that get 12V, 5V or whatever. 🤷‍♂️
- how do I open this thing up further???
- and replacing the hard drive with CF is probably also a good idea 😉

Some good info here (this seems to imply yes to the 486(SLC) on tower models 1 & 2 - https://gdemu.wordpress.com/details/fm-towns-details/)

Reply 2 of 16, by weedeewee

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Neat!

No idea though how to get further in.

While that's a 68p connector above the CPU, I doubt that's a UW SCSI connection 😀

according to the wiki "72-pin non-parity SIMMs with a required timing of 100ns or less and a recommended timing of 60ns"

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Reply 5 of 16, by Horun

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Very Nice looking tower, to bad it has a 1x cdrom permanently built in, be mighty slow and only able to read commercial cd's afaik

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 6 of 16, by Dominus

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PC Hoarder Patrol wrote on 2024-01-20, 20:30:

Some good info here (this seems to imply yes to the 486(SLC) on tower models 1 & 2 - https://gdemu.wordpress.com/details/fm-towns-details/)

Yes, thanks, that info is really useful.

to bad it has a 1x cdrom permanently built in, be mighty slow and only able to read commercial cd's afaik

Nothing I'll worry about, I'll just play commercial CDs anyway.

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Reply 7 of 16, by Horun

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Can you post a picture of the back please ? I watched Hungars youtube vid on FM Towns II 20f dismantling, very complex !

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 8 of 16, by Dominus

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There you are 😉

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Reply 9 of 16, by Dominus

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Seems this might be the right video for disassembly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYgLnHVe7c4

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Reply 10 of 16, by Horun

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Thanks, looks good ! There is one other youtube video that also has a disassembly. They also discovered an issue in the PSU.

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 11 of 16, by Dominus

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seems my plan to just replace the PSU with some standard 386 PSU is not going to work. Will need a transformation device.

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Reply 12 of 16, by Dominus

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what is the correct 486 CPU to search for? I have no idea about what the correct search terms are 😀

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Reply 13 of 16, by Deunan

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Dominus wrote on 2024-01-20, 19:45:
So this old FM Towns desktop came into my possession;) […]
Show full quote

So this old FM Towns desktop came into my possession;)

And I need help.
- is this the one that you can put a 486 CPU in?
- what RAM can you put there?
- I live in Germany and we have ~220-230 Volts, opposed to the 100V Japan has.
In my theory, I could just change the PSU for an age appropriate German one as I guess the FM Towns motherboard has standard connectors that get 12V, 5V or whatever. 🤷‍♂️
- how do I open this thing up further???
- and replacing the hard drive with CF is probably also a good idea 😉

So first, to anyone who doesn't yet know what FM Towns is - this is not a PC. It's not compatible even though it runs DOS - the OS is a special, customized version. As for the questions:

1) This seems to be 2nd generation (gen 2 as I call it) tower, the CPU should be in a socket. So the swap to 486DLC is possible without desoldering the old CPU, although the socket is not a ZIF and prying out the old CPU without proper tools is also a bit difficult if you want to avoid socket damage. Two big, flat screwdrivers can be used for this purpose, with some patience because unless the mobo is removed (this requires complete disassembly) you can't really attack each side due to case and connectors getting in the way.

2) 72-pin SIMMs but the system detects the presence of the stick, and it's size, by the ID pins. Which will not be connected on 95% of PC sticks, or even connected incorrectly (sticks from printers and PC OEM machines).
I very strongly suggest you do not go over 6MiB in this machine, in fact the 2MiB it already has is pretty much good enough for all games. Since obtaining 1M or 2M sticks in 72-pin format is hard in EU and USA you can use 4M and 8M ones, jumper them as lower capacity and that should work. If in doubt try removing the stick and see if the machine works properly with its original 2M of RAM.

3) Step-down autotransformers are a thing. You can buy those in Poland so I'm sure you can also buy them in Germany. Preferably you want a proper transformer that does 100V output, not 110V or even 120V as most do (for USA mains). And certainly not some old transformer that outputs close to 120V and was meant for 220V input. That could result in too high voltage and damage to PSU. That being said I've used a 230V to 110V transformer with my machines (before I got a proper 100V one) for many hours without issues.
One thing you might want to change, during PSU restoration, is the cable. I've changed the original JP 2-prong cable to USA 3-prong one, so that:
a) I have integareted earthing without having to run extra wire to the case screw (as it's usually done in Japan)
b) since it's USA plug I won't accidentaly connect it directly to EU 230V socket
c) the original cable was a bit damaged anyway and no longer safe to use with cracks in the insulation

4) There is nothing standard about FM Towns PSU. Yes, people put ATX or these pico-type PSUs inside but frankly I prefer to keep the original. They have issues, some capacitors have to be replaced (as in, must be, period) but I've repaired two such PSUs and both work fine now. Consider repair before replacement because quite frankly most of these "mods" I've seen are nothing short of butchering the original machine for the sake of convenience.
Do note, FM Towns machines are soft-start, that is very much like ATX ones, with standby voltage being present (if only for the on/off switch and chip). Unplug or switch off with a hard switch when not used to prevent any possible PSU problems in the future. AFAIK the standby voltage does not reach the RTC so it's not useful for prolonging the internal battery life in any way.

5) Opening is easy but only once you've done it at least once. It's a very well though out case but it needs to be assembled and disassembled in a certain order. There are no shortcuts. Trying to yank out the mobo without taking out pretty much everything else first is asking for trouble. PSU can be, if you know how to do it, removed with less work, although it's supposed to come out along the mainboard.

6) If your machine has a HDD, it's a SCSI drive. And it needs to be low height SCSI HDD too (well not quite as flat as a Seagate ST51080N but a lot of period-correct HDDs will not fit, too many platters). That being said 2F did not come with a HDD, only 2 floppy drives (hence the name) so unless the previous owner upgraded it the HDD bay will be empty. If the ribbon between HDD and backplane (part of HDD enlcosure) is also missing you can't connect anything there, the pinout is not a standard 50-pin SCSI, it also carries 12V and 5V power. You'd fry the HDD (and the Towns perhaps as well) trying to just use a typical flat ribbon extension cable.

Also, if I may have a suggestion, forget the CPU swap. Unless you already have a 486DLC chip (preferably Ti and not Cyrix) or want to "pimp-out" the machine. The results are just not worth it. You can't really enable the cache without running into tons of problems with games, and even then the performance uplift is... not great. I'd arge the machine is worth more in it's original form for such a good cosmetic state, both for personal collection and for resale.

Reply 14 of 16, by Deunan

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weedeewee wrote on 2024-01-20, 20:32:

While that's a 68p connector above the CPU, I doubt that's a UW SCSI connection 😀

It's not. It's for a special daugherboard with 387DX (but a handful of software ever used it). The board also has some extra logic chips on it, for the busy and exception signal handling I suppose.
Note that gen 1 and 2 have different NPU board to later machines, and starting with 486SX I think the idea was dropped completly because these have swappable CPU boards. And AFAIK the 386SX based Towns can't have NPU installed at all, although I'm not 100% sure about that.

Reply 15 of 16, by Dominus

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Thanks Deunan for chiming, lots of valuable information 😀

1. Yes, it's an F2.

3. Which transformator have you bought that does the 100V? I've looked online and I always ended up with an US 110V one.

4. Replacing capacitors is almost impossible for me 😀

5. Yeah, the video I posted further up, nicely showcases it.

6. For that I'm considering a SCSDI2SD https://townsworld.com/2021/03/15/the-perfect … hdd-is-scsi2sd/

and yes, it's in a good cosmetic state, not wanting to sell it, just use it, so not totally against doing some work on it. But I see your point and am considering it.

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Reply 16 of 16, by Deunan

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Dominus wrote on 2024-01-22, 17:26:

3. Which transformator have you bought that does the 100V? I've looked online and I always ended up with an US 110V one.

There is a company in Poland that makes various small transformers and also such step-down autotransfomers for 110V. I've bought from them before so I asked via email if they can make a custom 100V version, and they said yes. Apparently I was not the first person to ask for such a thing. I looked and they are still around, I can send you their email via PM if you want. Not sure if their staff speaks English or if they ship to Germany (but why not) but if you can't get them to answer I could be persuaded to help out. Rougly speaking you are looking at about 100EUR price for 350VA model. Chinese stuff will be cheaper but as you've noticed it's not 100V. And I just measured the idle output and it's 100.6V for 228.8V input. Loaded it will drop a volt or two as well.

For just the tower you want something like 250VA or 300VA (this is already more than enough) but if you want to run more 100V devices at the same time (esp. something like original Towns CRT monitor) then 400VA or perhaps even 500VA transformer would be better. Other than size and weight (and price I guess) it won't hurt to upsize. But don't overdo it if you are not planning on running many 100V devices at once. I picked 400VA for my needs since I sometimes run 2 Towns machines at the same time.

Dominus wrote on 2024-01-22, 17:26:

4. Replacing capacitors is almost impossible for me 😀

Well, that might be a problem since the PSU is most likely also going to need some other minor repairs (one of the caps tends to leak, corrode nearby parts that also have to be tested and replaced). Perhaps someone nearby you can fix electronics? You only need to send them the PSU with some explanations, it can be repaired and tested outside Towns machine by using 12V and 6V lightbulbs as load.
If there is nothing you can do, at least try to do the PSU mod in such a way that it can be reversed. So no cutting in th case or the internal metal support. The original PSU has a nice feature - it offers 5V line adjustment that is accessible via a small hole from outside of the machine. So it can help with stability with extra cards and such (or a mechanical HDD for example). Plus it's has pretty decent and clean output. I'm not so sure about the cheap replacement PSUs...

Dominus wrote on 2024-01-22, 17:26:

Will work fine, I know, I'm using it. In fact I rescued the original HDD as well - my machine had a 40MiB HDD and it actually survived shipping, just had some bad sectors (from age?) that I've remapped. But before I finished with the HDD I put in the SCSI2SD so now it stays there.
But, other than lack of power supply, you can use the external connector on the back of the case for HDD. No need to put it inside the machine. The lack of power is also not a huge issue - you can use an extra 5V "wall brick" or the SCSI2SD can also work using the bus termination power alone (it draws less than 500mA). I've used both modes on my other Towns machines with good results. External SCSI HDD cases are also possible. My issue is one of the towers I have suffers from some corrosion on the internal connectors (salt water corrosion from nearby ocean?) so the SCSI plug on the back has some problems. If not for that I would probably remove the internal SCSI2SD.

Try to find SCSI2SD v5.1 PCB that can accept a 25-pin DSUB connector. Usually though you'll need to buy and solder the connector yourself. With that there are SCSI cables that have the 50-pin "Centronics" on one side and 25-pin DSUB on the other side. With such cable my SCSI2SD works using just the terminator power, no problems, and this setup is easier to move to another machine if need be. Just make sure the cable is not too long, 1.5m is enough (even shorter will do).

Dominus wrote on 2024-01-22, 17:26:

and yes, it's in a good cosmetic state, not wanting to sell it, just use it, so not totally against doing some work on it. But I see your point and am considering it.

BTW the original CD-ROM drive is slow (1x) but usually still works. Be very carful when cleaning it, avoid using IPA or any other solvents when cleaning the spindle pad. The rubber on it is glued on and IPA can cause the very edges of that glue to become sticky again, for a looong time, which causes all CDs to stick to it. Don't ask how I know. Use just water to clean the CD-ROM spindle.